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Thread: Vogel Update

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Nice find. Here's the text.

    Pacers look for help for Vogel

    By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
    17 minutes ago

    The Indiana Pacers have made significant progress toward deciding to make interim Frank Vogel the permanent head coach while working to strengthen his grip on the locker room, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

    No final decision has been reached, but sources said most of the hurdles have been cleared for Vogel to be offered a multi-year contract in the near future.

    Bird and Vogel have met several times in recent weeks, and have targeted several assistant coaches – including Terry Porter and J.B. Bickerstaff – that the Pacers would like to surround Vogel.

    Indiana hasn’t completely ruled out waiting longer and meeting with outside candidates, but management and Vogel have been increasingly in agreement on how to proceed forward together. Dallas Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle has urged Bird – a close friend of his – to consider assistant coach Dwane Casey, but that appears a more unlikely route.

    The biggest issue had been the organization’s concern over Vogel’s ability to police the locker room and command the respect of players. Vogel was promoted to interim coach after the firing of head coach Jim O’Brien in February.

    Despite a 20-18 finish to the regular season and a competitive first-round playoff loss to the top-seeded Chicago Bulls, there was slippage on issues like punctuality and discipline, league sources said.

    To remedy that, Vogel has worked with management to target several strong assistant coaches, including Porter and Bickerstaff. Vogel is the league’s youngest coach at 37, and doesn’t have the stature that might otherwise command easier respect.

    The Pacers want vocal, hands-on assistants to work with Vogel, sources said. Longtime assistant Dan Burke is expected to be a holdover to the next coaching staff.

    The organization was sympathetic to Vogel’s plight once he took over the team, because he had worked quickly to make substantial X’s and O’s changes on offense and defense. He had inherited O’Brien’s relatively unimposing staff as his own, and it was natural that a byproduct might be some setbacks in the locker room.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Hmm...he didn't mention Frank Hamblen?

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerfan View Post
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    Hmm...he didn't mention Frank Hamblen?
    My guess is Porter and Bickerstaff were mentioned because they are fairly well known, well Bickerstaff's pa is. Also, Hamblen might have just been a throw-in because the report that mentioned him was based out of LA iirc.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    If true I could not be more pleased. Great News!

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    the goat Haywoode Workman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    I hope Casey gets at least an interview.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    There is so much to be read between the lines in that article

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    There is so much to be read between the lines in that article
    Vogel's a softy with the players?

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Vogel's a softy with the players?
    Vogel had to use JOB's softy assistants.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Vogel had to use JOB's softy assistants.
    So'd JOB and the dude guys always seemed to be in line. Jus'sayin.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Vogel had to use JOB's softy assistants.
    Or that Vogel himself was a softy....isn't it as much of the Coach's responsibility to police the Players as it is the Assistant's responsibility?

    I can understand the need to have a strong assistant Coach to drive the defense.......but what I'd always thought that it should be the Coach that is the one that drives discipline within the locker room....I'd hope that it wouldn't be something that the Head Coach would have to rely on the Assistant Coaches to enforce.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    So'd JOB and the dude guys always seemed to be in line. Jus'sayin.
    In line and losing.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Enough already. Lets keeps things moving in the right direction while things are
    starting to look good and not screw it up.

    Frank Vogel for the win.


    Last edited by RamBo_Lamar; 06-09-2011 at 10:45 PM.

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  19. #14

    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Merz View Post
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    In line and losing.
    Clearly. Which isn't the point.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Vogel had to use JOB's softy assistants.
    The head coach is the leader of the staff, if he can't instill discipline, how do you expect his assistants with lesser titles to? That's a cop out.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    The head coach is the leader of the staff, if he can't instill discipline, how do you expect his assistants with lesser titles to? That's a cop out.
    It's the ebb and flow of player coach, followed by disciplinarian, and back again. Happens with every team in the league.
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    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Oh come on, he was thrown in interim after his boss got fired, how easy do you expect him to come in and demand respect of a bunch of other assistants that just the day prior were his equal, and most of which are older than him? He's 37, has "interim" in front of his title, has no prior coaching experience --- of course he struggled to come in and be like, "Alright, listen up, noobs, respect my authority!!"

    That was not a great situation for Vogel, a very hard position to say "alright guys, I'm the boss now." He got the job done, anyway. You guys are just looking for things to nit-pick.

    I have little doubt that Vogel, with a staff of his own, interim tag removed, and a playoff series under his belt, will do just fine in the "commanding respect and instilling discipline" department. And it's great to hear that he's actually targetting assistants to promote that very thing.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 06-10-2011 at 12:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Being concerned about his ability to police the locker room. While I have jumped on the Vogel bandwagon this is a concern for me.

    Being able to "police" your employees is a must for any type of manager and lets face it...that's what a coach is...like a manager. This is so important over the entire season. It's a long season.

    On the other hand...how much does the locker room need to be "policed" outside of maybe Lance? Are there major issues in there that we don't know about?

  25. #19

    Default Re: Vogel Update

    I think a lot of stuff is getting blown out of proportion.

    Anyone who's had a big promotion at one company can probably attest to this. No matter how much respect you have, it's very difficult to go from a position of assisting to a position of power. You have employees who've been interacting with you for 2-3 years that now have to listen to your orders.

    It's very difficult for the coach AND the players to adjust to a change like that. I really don't understand what people were expecting out of Vogel after three months on the new job.

    It (respect from players) appears to be enough of an issue to be a sticking point for his hire. But from all accounts it sounded like he was making the adjustment by the end of the season. And if the playoffs are any indication, the players were listening and playing for Vogel more than at any point in Indiana since 2005.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    There are two ways a leader can instill discipline, by himself or through an assistant. The head coach may not be very skilled in the discipline area, but if he has an assistant that is but is still clearly below the head it can be just as if not more effective. To me the only thing to read between the lines is that Vogel is a humble guy who is aware of his weaknesses and short comings, and is willing to go out and find assistants who are capable of making up for those weaknesses. Taking into affect the playoffs, the only thing to read between the lines here is that Vogel is a very good leader.

    In the work place who do you do your best work for? The egotistical, totalitarian boss who is always on you for doing something wrong or just not being more efficient, or the humble, respectful boss who pushes you but respects you and realizes he needs your help? I am willing to bet that 95% of people will go with the humble, respectful boss.

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Have TPTB helped him at all by letting this drag out? If they doubted he could do the job then get someone else. If he is your guy then get behind him quick and show the team you have his back no matter what. They are not sending the message they trust him in my eyes.

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    The real question is does Bird really trust Vogel and is he.just praised cause the players hated JOB so much? And he was just a breath of fresh air? They want veteran coaches around Vogel n is Talkn only.giving him a one year deal. Sounds like no faith.to me. Will they.fire him midseason. If team sucks? N replace him wth one of the.new veteran assistants? Casey.is.knowned for Defense and good X and O. And he.looks like a disciplinary type coach that a young talented team needs!! Just adding my 2 cents!!

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by D squared fan View Post
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    The real question is does Bird really trust Vogel and is he.just praised cause the players hated JOB so much? And he was just a breath of fresh air? They want veteran coaches around Vogel n is Talkn only.giving him a one year deal. Sounds like no faith.to me. Will they.fire him midseason. If team sucks? N replace him wth one of the.new veteran assistants? Casey.is.knowned for Defense and good X and O. And he.looks like a disciplinary type coach that a young talented team needs!! Just adding my 2 cents!!
    Was this post a transmission from the moon?

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    Hire him already! All this talk about experience isn't needed. Proven coaches fail more times than not. You hire Vogel because he proven he can take us to the playoffs and compete. No proven coach has show they can do that with this team, so it's a risk you gotta take to hire the unproven guy. Who can prove to me that a guy in Vogel's position will fail more times than not? I don't think it's happened enough to get a fair equation once you factor in all the variables.

    Vogel has already shown he can get our young guys to compete and they believe in him. If Lance Stephenson supports him, that speaks volumes. I'm sure half this board wants to see Lance fry, but it's obvious Vogel has gained his respect. Maybe Lance needs a guy like Vogel. To me Lance Stephenson has all the tools and talent to become one of the most feared combo guards in the league. He proved during our losing streak he is the best passer on the team. It will just take another summer, a lot of hard work and no blips on the radar and Vogel will find a way to incorporate him and win.

    He also matches up very well defending other point guards. My thought when people call him "too slow" is when half the board was calling Paul George "too slow" to guard shooting guards. And he defended the MVP POINT GUARD better than he had been defended all year in a one on one match-up.

    Anyways hire Vogel! Pray for Lance!

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    Default Re: Vogel Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Oh come on, he was thrown in interim after his boss got fired, how easy do you expect him to come in and demand respect of a bunch of other assistants that just the day prior were his equal, and most of which are older than him? He's 37, has "interim" in front of his title, has no prior coaching experience --- of course he struggled to come in and be like, "Alright, listen up, noobs, respect my authority!!"

    That was not a great situation for Vogel, a very hard position to say "alright guys, I'm the boss now." He got the job done, anyway. You guys are just looking for things to nit-pick.

    I have little doubt that Vogel, with a staff of his own, interim tag removed, and a playoff series under his belt, will do just fine in the "commanding respect and instilling discipline" department. And it's great to hear that he's actually targetting assistants to promote that very thing.

    OK, those are good points, but they have to be balanced against the fact that the players were sick of JOB and were going to give the next coach whoever he was a fair chance. I don't think it was that hard of a position to come into. A number of assistant coaches became the head coach (of the same team) in the middle of the season and had good success - see JVG and Lawrence Frank.

    Bottomline: I was not too impressed with Vogel during the regular season, if that were the only barometer, no way I would want him back. The playoffs impressed me and that is why I am OK with him coming back
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 06-10-2011 at 08:21 AM.

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