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Thread: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Penske being a stalwart my keister! He'll go where the money is. That was his first full-time year in the IRL.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Penske being a stalwart my keister! He'll go where the money is. That was his first full-time year in the IRL.
    Ya...Your right. I thought about putting that in quotation marks, but I didn't.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Penske being a stalwart my keister! He'll go where the money is. That was his first full-time year in the IRL.
    Yes but if you were the IRL who would you rather see winning that year? A CART/Champcar regular coming over to cherry pick the Indy 500 and one that had had plenty of negative comments to say about the IRL or Team Penske, an Indy 500 regular for as long as many can remember (until the split) and a one that had just returned to the IRL full time.

    If you were trying to create the media (and fan) perception that things were back to normal at Indy wouldn't a Penske win be your idea of the better headline?

    And could you, as the IRL afford to pizz off Penske right then?

    Then compare drivers- The affable Helio vs the cantankerous Tracy...

    There were plenty of reasons to weight the scales in Penske's direction in 2002...
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    If it seemed JR Hildebrand came upon fellow rookie Charlie Kimball quickly on the final lap of last weekend's Indianapolis 500, he did.

    Track segment times released by the Izod IndyCar Series show that Hildebrand, who crashed trying to pass the lapped car, was traveling about 94 mph faster than Kimball in the north short chute of Indianapolis Motor Speedway and still 83 mph faster in turn four.

    In giving Kimball room, Hildebrand's right-side tires got into the slippery higher groove, which pushed him into the wall. Dan Wheldon passed him 900 feet from the finish to win.

    Documents show that Kimball, who was low on fuel and perhaps out altogether, was going only 103.634 mph in the timing sector from the short chute to turn four. Hildebrand's speed was 186.865 mph, and that included the area at which the accident started.

    In the previous sector measured from turn three to the short chute, Hildebrand was clocked at 210.564 mph to Kimball's 116.440 mph.

    Kimball had been slowing for some time. His speed on lap 198 (of 200) was 192.934 mph, and he was at 166.930 mph on lap 199.


    Kimball's remarkably slow speed on the final lap raises questions about why he was on the track and not in the deceleration lane. Nearly the same thing happened in last year's race when Mike Conway crashed in turn three after running over the left rear tire of Ryan Hunter-Reay, who was running out of fuel.

    Chief steward Brian Barnhart was not available for comment Friday.

    There also have been questions regarding Hildebrand holding onto the lead after his crash.

    Based on television replays, it took about eight seconds for officials to turn on the caution light.

    Hildebrand, who kept pushing the gas pedal after the wall impact, needed 11.1 seconds to travel from the measuring point in turn four to the finish line. Wheldon got there in 7.3 seconds, a difference of 3.8 seconds.

    The speed numbers show Wheldon reacted to the crash by slowing. He was 11.4 mph slower from the middle of the fourth turn to the finish line than he had been on the previous lap.
    Indy Star

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...oved-bad-combo
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    You should get one warning to pick up the pace at best and then the black flag should fly.

    Honestly, had that been the rule Wheldon would likely be a 3 time winner because it's pretty questionable if Dario could've made it to the finish last year. He was slowing considerably when Conway's wreck allowed him to finish under yellow. And IIRC there was some question about his pace speed even being slow.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Yep and he should have had enough common sense to get the hell out of the way. 103MPH...He was dry and coasting.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Did Kimball stall on the track or did he get back to his pit stall?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    IDK. I never paid attention. I don't recall seeing him peel off, so he must have coasted across the line.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Im pretty sure hes one of the cars on the straightaway when Wheldon takes the checkered.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    If anyone missed Windtunnel tonight here is some new info... The track was yellow when Wheldon passed Hildebrand.

    The flagman has control of the track lights due to the '97 500 when the flagman waved the green flag but the track lights stayed yellow on a restart on the 199th lap.

    So on that last lap this year he was putting away the white flag, grabbing the dual checkers, and then race control called for a yellow. So that slowed the response down in the flagstand. Despain pointed out an official at the end of pitlane signaling yellow, and the pitlane going yellow, even though the outside track lights were still green. And unlike 2002, one video shot shows all of this and the position of Wheldon, Hildebrand, etc.. Wheldon had not passed Hildebrand at the point race control called for yellow.

    Barnhart's call was a disabled car has no protection against being passed. He compared it to Tagliani tagging the wall earlier in the race and cars passing him. The track going yellow, and when, was irrelevant in this circumstance is what Barnhart ruled.

    So that's the official position of Indycar/IMS.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    I'm sorry, Kimball's story abotu being a diabetic is great and all, but people are being way too nice to him. He ****ed up. He cost Hildebrand the 500. 100 MPH? I could take my street legal S4 out there and do that through turn 4. Sorry, but that's just sad. I feel terrible for Hildebrand, even if Wheldon had a good story too.

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Im pretty sure hes one of the cars on the straightaway when Wheldon takes the checkered.
    It was indeed. I watched it last night on Speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If anyone missed Windtunnel tonight here is some new info... The track was yellow when Wheldon passed Hildebrand.

    The flagman has control of the track lights due to the '97 500 when the flagman waved the green flag but the track lights stayed yellow on a restart on the 199th lap.

    So on that last lap this year he was putting away the white flag, grabbing the dual checkers, and then race control called for a yellow. So that slowed the response down in the flagstand. Despain pointed out an official at the end of pitlane signaling yellow, and the pitlane going yellow, even though the outside track lights were still green. And unlike 2002, one video shot shows all of this and the position of Wheldon, Hildebrand, etc.. Wheldon had not passed Hildebrand at the point race control called for yellow.

    Barnhart's call was a disabled car has no protection against being passed. He compared it to Tagliani tagging the wall earlier in the race and cars passing him. The track going yellow, and when, was irrelevant in this circumstance is what Barnhart ruled.

    So that's the official position of Indycar/IMS.
    I can certainly agree with, and understand, his position. I just wish that this, the third (at least) version would have been the first version put out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I'm sorry, Kimball's story abotu being a diabetic is great and all, but people are being way too nice to him. He ****ed up. He cost Hildebrand the 500. 100 MPH? I could take my street legal S4 out there and do that through turn 4. Sorry, but that's just sad. I feel terrible for Hildebrand, even if Wheldon had a good story too.
    Agreed.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    I didn't know the flagman controlled the track lights. It seems like this info would've become common knowledge in 2002. That would seemingly taken a little steam away from Barry Green's argument that Tracy passed Helio before the track was yellow because of the video showing the track light not yellow until after the pass.

    ...Assuming the in-car yellow lights are controlled from a different source.

    And in this day and age couldn't this all be synched better for fans, competitors, safety, and fairness?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Yes he does. It's standard at every track I know of, now. Check out any flagstand and there's a big metal box. That's it. Either a set of big push buttons or toggle switches. There used to be a button up in the tower and I believe that is now used to send the signal to the in cars. It's quite a complex series of events made more difficult based on the size of the track. Indy has several posts, like you saw illustrated last night, that are connected to race control by radio so they can report incidents (common frequency) that are not immediately visable to RC or the flagstand. When and how the caution actually comes out is a bit of a black art...The flagman has the button and also has the authority to throw the caution without RC directing it. RC can dictate a full course based on the spotter reports or flagman. Then they get on the common frequency and notify the teams. I've never knew the pit official along the front straight could (seemingly) trigger the caution.

    It gets a little more complicated on road/street courses with local yellows and the like. There, the corner workers have the ability to call a local yellow and notify RC and clear it off when completed.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Interesting turn of events. Can't say I'm surprised other than maybe a little that he'd head back to Andretti as opposed to Penske or Ganassi. But Andretti would be the more desperate team in need of a handle right now. But I could see some heads rolling at Penske and Ganassi before it's all said and done.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    I've got some feelers out and haven't heard anything on PMS and TCG yet...I just heard this early this AM because it affects somebody I know who's now demoted to assistant engineer on Conway's car...You know, the one that won Long Beach and the one that's highest in the points for AAS...
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    If anybody can make it work, it's Dan...But I still don't see how in the hell it will ever turn.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...uel-during-500

    Barnhart: No cheating
    Hildebrand had no extra fuel, 500 chief steward says


    FORT WORTH, Texas -- The fuel tank and caution light controversies dogging the end of last month's Indianapolis 500 are without merit, the race's chief steward said Thursday.

    Brian Barnhart said he confirmed with Honda, the Izod IndyCar Series' sole engine supplier, that runner-up finisher JR Hildebrand did not use more than the allowable 22 gallons of fuel in the final laps.

    The amount of fuel in his Panther Racing machine came under fire this week in a story published by Canada's largest newspaper, the Globe and Mail. The newspaper, which cited unidentified sources, said other teams believe Panther fiddled with the fuel capacity.

    Globe and Mail officials later withdrew the story from its website.

    This much is known: Hildebrand made his final pit stop on lap 164, the same lap as two-time race winner Dario Franchitti, who was forced to stop for more fuel.

    "JR did not use more than 22 gallons to that point," said Barnhart, who declined to reveal the amount used by the No. 4 car. "It's darn close, but he only had to go a few hundred yards more."

    Hildebrand crashed in the fourth turn trying to pass the slow lapped car of fellow rookie Charlie Kimball. Hildebrand's crash gave Dan Wheldon time to pass for the lead -- and Wheldon's second win at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

    IndyCar inspected all fuel cells before the race and had them sealed at several points. Hildebrand's car was not inspected after the race because it was damaged.

    Panther officials denied they fiddled with the fuel. A statement released by the team called it "a non-issue."

    As for when the caution lights came on after the impact, Barnhart said he called for them immediately, and the lights in the cars came on about the time Hildebrand bounced off the wall a second time.

    Television replays don't show that scenario, but flashing lights on the interior pit wall were on when Wheldon passed Hildebrand.

    That doesn't matter, Barnhart said, even if the rulebook isn't specific.

    Barnhart said Wheldon, along with every other driver in the race, had the right to pass Hildebrand under caution.

    "That's just common sense that a wounded car can be passed," Barnhart said. "Every car that crashed in this race and all other races has been passed, and there was no penalty for passing it.

    "It is an accepted and understood practice to continue on, not just in our series but every form of racing at every level."

    Barnhart used the example of Alex Tagliani's mid-race crash in the same location of turn four. Tagliani's car continued around the track under caution and was repeatedly passed.

    "Not letting them pass means you threw the red flag," Barnhart said.

    The confusion over the lights stemmed from the multiple systems used. The lights on the pit wall are tied to the dash lights, which are activated by radio transmission. The lights on the outside wall are hard wired and initiated by a switch in the flag stand.

    The systems are different and not able to be synched, Barnhart said.

    "Drivers know to (obey) the first lights they see," he said. "That's why we have multiple systems in place."
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP63 View Post
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    If anybody can make it work, it's Dan...But I still don't see how in the hell it will ever turn.
    Let's assume the thing can turn... I wonder about the weight distribution. If it can turn, that means it can get loose. And if it gets loose would that thing spin like a top or what?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    BTW.... Since we've been told Dallara was the only company that was all for chassis competition, then why didn't the Delta Wing get accepted too (or provisionally accepted provided it could meet certain safety and performance standards)? Wasn't the Delta Wing proposal just to be an open chassis design that anyone could build?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Let's assume the thing can turn... I wonder about the weight distribution. If it can turn, that means it can get loose. And if it gets loose would that thing spin like a top or what?
    Yes and yes. With those little narrow track front tires being grossly overpowered by the big rears I'm not sure how you get it to stop short of turning over

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    BTW.... Since we've been told Dallara was the only company that was all for chassis competition, then why didn't the Delta Wing get accepted too (or provisionally accepted provided it could meet certain safety and performance standards)? Wasn't the Delta Wing proposal just to be an open chassis design that anyone could build?
    Interesting question. It was too "radical" for most of the money men. A lot of folks looked at it and thought the same thing we did. There were a lot of doubters about the price and long term viability. Personally, I feel the fat azz on the new Dallara is a nod to the delta...Don't even get me started on them getting back in bed with those Italian *******os after they've been screwing everybody like blind cats for the last 10 years...

    Looking forward to the "Texas Twins"!
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetimeís worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    The Twin 275s should be fun to watch tonight. And wow did Helio struggle during quals yesterday. I think he is officially in a funk.


    Im really liking how they put this together. This twin run at Texas would go well with a NBC deal with Indycar...

    Although I do have a feeling that somehow a Ganassi car will get the pole draw....

    And Dario is crying about the draw being stupid. Too bad!

    AND HE'S STILL CRYING ABOUT IT AFTER THE RACE! STFU DARIO AND LIVE WITH IT!
    Last edited by Sandman21; 06-11-2011 at 11:58 PM.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    The draw is pretty stupid when you consider the importance that is put on the championship. If the race didn't pay points that would help... but then you take away some importance of the race. I'm not sure how much that would really affect competitors once the green flag drops, but fans might get the perception the race doesn't really matter... and that might create a vicious cycle with media, crew, drivers, etc.... So probably best not to go there. But it depends on if you have a way to make sure the 2nd race at least has the illusion of importance to the fans and teams.

    Inverting the qualifying lineup makes sense on first blush except if you know you don't really have a shot at the pole then you could tank your qualifying attempt and the biggest tanker would be on the pole for the 2nd race. ...and the other tankers would be around you. You for sure don't want that.

    I'd say for the 2nd race just base it off of points (you could include the first race in the points so that the final lineup wouldn't be known until after the first race) and then invert the lineup with the lowest points on the pole and the leaders in the back (if that is what the series is looking for to create more excitement). You might need a rule to tackle what to do about one-offs and limited participation/points teams... or not.... I'm not sure you want a one-off team coming to the Twins so they could sit on the pole of the 2nd race.

    I'd say just use the finishing lineup of the first race but if you invert the field you still leave the door wide open to someone tanking majorly in the 1st race to sit on the pole for the 2nd race. Would someone do that? ... You'd have that whole first race to think about car setup. Could even make some extra pitstops to try some things... Save all your 'push to pass' for the 2nd race... and then start that 2nd race in clean air with low downforce and a hopefully dialed in car and ALL of your push to passes left (AKA "overtakes"). Yeah... I'd say someone would do that... Probably not your championship contenders but your 2nd and 3rd tier teams would really have nothing to lose and a lot to gain by playing the system and using it trying for a win on primetime TV.

    You'd also need to make sure that the first guy to crash out in the 1st race doesn't get rewarded with the pole in the 2nd race. At least I'd certainly not want to see that happen.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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