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Thread: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments


    Flyover.
    The B2 Bomber turns after the flyover.



    Balloons! Release the balloons! More balloons! Balloons!


    Alex Lloyd in pits.


    Graham Rahal pits early in the race. At one point Graham's crew told him he'd just ran the fastest lap in the race and had the car to beat.


    Will Power returns to the pits missing a left rear wheel. There was a problem with the left rear tire change but apparently Power (or whoever releases him on the team) didn't get the memo and so pulled out and quickly saw his left rear spin off and go bouncing down pitwall. AFAIK, that didn't earn him a penalty except for the track position he lost returning to the pits for a replacement cost him.


    Contender Scott Dixon


    Tony Kanaan's crew has to pull Kanaan back into his pit stall after being blocked by an exiting Pippa Mann (who was pitted behind Kanaan).


    Penske driver Ryan Briscoe leaves the pits on the way to a disappointing finish (especially by Penske standards).


    Closeup of Kanaan in the pits.


    Eventual 2nd place finisher JR Hildebrand. Little did we know the drama that would later unfold with this car.


    Another photo of the Graham Rahal entry. Rahal was with the Ganassi '2nd team'. He ended up with a very respectable 3rd place finish making him the highest finishing Ganassi driver.


    Eventual winner Dan Wheldon pits.


    Tomas Scheckter's car certainly looked fast.


    Scheckter's sponsor, Redline Energy drink, did provide some support for the team...


    Ryan Hunter-Reay in his Andretti-Foyt car provided some pre-race week drama and controversy with his replacing the original driver of the #41 car when his own car was bumped from the field... by his teammate...



    Pole sitter Alex Tagliani


    Dan Wheldon pulls into the pits as the winner of the 2011 Indy 500.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Congrats to Dan Wheldon. Great month and great ending to the month for him.

    Even with the condensed May schedule Indiana and Mother Nature can still team up to give us the weirdest weather imaginable. You want cool, even cold conditions? Check... had that this month. Want rain? Yip. Wind? Yip. Clouds? Yip. Sun? Yip? .... And finally sweltering heat and himidity? Yip. The only thing missing was some snow.

    Does anyone have a guess what has happened to Team Penske at the 500? Has the limited schedule (let alone the Indiana weather limiting even further) exposed a flaw in the Penske race and qualifying preparation? Penske has ran 3 cars in the past without spreading himself too thin but then maybe there were more $$$ for those multi-car teams. I have no idea. Gonna need to think about this one. Of course Penske has missed the boat before so maybe this is just a fluke year or two for Penske at Indy. But it's hard to say Penske is spreading himself too thin with 3 cars when Ganassi has managed to create 2 teams with 4 cars.

    Ganassi needs to have someone from the Indiana Weights and Measurements Dept check his fuel pumps.... At least the Team Target ones...

    Speaking of fuel mileage.... It's two years in a row now where fuel conservation has tried to play a factor in the race. It worked last year for Dario. ...Not so well for Mike Conway when he ran over the slowing Hunter-Reay. This year- Was Kimball driving extra slow to conserve fuel? Clearly, Dario and Dixon were fuel conscious. I'm glad the fast running Dan Wheldon won running full out instead of someone driving 10MPH off the pace and holding on for the win. So is this just a fluke thing or has fuel mileage, fuel cell regulations, and race distance conspired to bubble this strategy to the top? Or is it just a thing that has had some success so it's been monkey see-monkey do? I mean, if everyone is on some fuel conservation run then it evens out but that doesn't make for what makes racing exciting. Seeing it once in a great while with one team or car is one thing... and can be dramatic.... but seeing several cars playing that game kinda sucks IMHO. And it gets dangerous too (ask Mike Conway what happens when someone runs out of fuel in front of you while you're trying to run the real race pace).

    I assume doing away with the fuel mixture knob was supposed to address this... but to me it seems worse than before now.

    And the push to pass HP boost is a moot point when the cars are running on fumes and won't use the button anyway.

    So does Indycar need to look at something (a change in fuel cell size perhaps?) to minimize this strategy being a regular issue? Is it more a factor of tires that can now outlast the fuel in the tank?

    Double file restarts- Much ado about nothing. It did keep the field more packed for a lap or two. And for all the talk the drivers had about not wanting it why were they going 3 and 4 wide?? I would've been fine without them at Indy and road courses.

    The start of the race. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 3 abreast parade lap something making a reappearance?? I was thinking at some point the cars quit doing that and didn't line up 3 abreast until the backstretch of the last pace lap before going green. The start looked sloppier in person than it did on TV. I'm not really sure what happened. It looked like Tagliani started to go, hesitated, and then got caught napping while Dixon just took off. ...But I thought they were accelerating before where they were supposed to for the start to begin with. But maybe that changed in the same compromise about the go zone for the 2 wide restarts on Sat and the media never got and/or disseminated the message.

    As I said in the other thread, Barnhart's comments about the ending and the rule interpretations used don't make a whole lot of sense. What happened made sense to the fans because basically, they saw Wheldon clearly pass before the yellow light came on. Then Hildebrand slide across 2nd. But then later comments contradict that. That's not really why Wheldon's pass counted and why he won if we listen to what was said by officials. OK. Someone needs to have an internal meeting and clear up exactly what the rules are in a similar scenario. What was ultimately said would mean even if Hildebrand had managed to slide across the line before Wheldon passed him Hildebrand still would not have been declared the winner. But to follow the logic in that (wounded car, caused yellow, not drivable, etc) then how do you award him 2nd place??? This stuff isn't brain surgery... Just find a clear rule and stick with it.

    To say simply the yellow wouldn't matter because you're always allowed to pass a wrecked car leaves some scenarios open. For one thing, you don't race back to the line under yellow. You're supposed to slow under yellow and maintain your position. So while you clearly can pass a wrecked car, can you 'race' a sliding wreck? What if it's the last lap and a car is limping back under yellow with a broken suspension? If they can maintain "pace speed" can you still just go ahead and pass them because they are wrecked? Just close the loopholes and make sure everyone knows the rules. It doesn't matter what they are so much as it matters that they are clear to everyone.

    The crowd was great yesterday. It's hard to say whether there were truly more seats filled than last year though. I wonder if scalpers snapped up tickets this year increasing sales for the track, then sold those tickets since they helped create a supply and demand issue plus the extra buzz for the 100th anniversary, but ultimately ended up with the same # of people in the seats. But I can't see the infield from my seats or T2 or T3. I can see the lower level seats behind pitlane at the early pits. I still say paint those seats differently and make them general admission seats. It's going to be a tough sell ever selling those seats again IMHO. That would allow some infield people to fill those... and more room possibly on the infield viewing mounds as some of those people take these seats. Heck, sell those seats CHEAPER than gen admission. Or else just do away with them entirely... make them vendor areas...
    Last edited by Bball; 05-30-2011 at 06:49 PM.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    On a related note to the audio crew at IMS.... Speaking of not brain surgery...

    Gain structure is your friend. Know your signal flow and keep your gain structure in check. There may be a 100 things out of your control... but proper gain structure is not one of them. Does no one at the facility not really understand what is happening many times with the distortion and how to fix it???
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Does anyone have a guess what has happened to Team Penske at the 500?
    A guess, and that's all it is, would be a combination of everyone else closing the gap as far as doing the little things that Penske has always done to get and edge at the Speedway and the fact that there are very few secrets left in a ten year old chassis. Some examples of little things used to be extreme attention to fit and finish of the body work and having logos painted on rather than decals because of the drag induced by the microscopic raised edges of the decals. True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Ganassi needs to have someone from the Indiana Weights and Measurements Dept check his fuel pumps.... At least the Team Target ones.
    This is a very interesting situation. There is obviously a problem with the metering or a problem with the pump they used to "pump out" the fuel cell in the garage. Very suprising that after qualifying they didn't replace EVERYTHING including the fuel cells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Speaking of fuel mileage.... It's two years in a row now where fuel conservation has tried to play a factor in the race. It worked last year for Dario. ...Not so well for Mike Conway when he ran over the slowing Hunter-Reay. This year- Was Kimball driving extra slow to conserve fuel?
    By all reports, Kimball was out and coasting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I assume doing away with the fuel mixture knob was supposed to address this... but to me it seems worse than before now.
    Here's the inherent problem. Fuel is weight. Engineers hate, Hate, HATE extra weight. The perfect engineering solution is to have the car run bone dry the second it crosses the finish line (less whatever is required by Indycar for post race inspection). It would not matter if you had a 200 gallon tank if the engineer decides you only need X ammount of fuel to finish the race, you as the fuel guy are only going to put in X ammount (delivered in seconds of flow, you have someone screaming in your ear to unplug after the calculated time). Now, here's the fun part...There are so many variables in the fuel system it is not nearly as exact as the guys on the war wagon would wish. The fuel pump may not pick it all up, the cell might not be pumped out all the way, there could be a sticky vent, you get the idea...You only have to watch them chew their fingernails once sweating out fuel to decide, whenever possible, to always put a little extra in. Obviously, during a full fuel run, that's not an issue. Were talking here about not needing a full bag. We didn't hot refuel in the pits due to our race length, and had to have 1 liter to pump out at the end, so after the first couple of times of sweating it out (including a support race win at the Indy F1 race) I always put an extra 1/2 to 3/4 gallon in...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    And the push to pass HP boost is a moot point when the cars are running on fumes and won't use the button anyway.
    Absolutely right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    So does Indycar need to look at something (a change in fuel cell size perhaps?) to minimize this strategy being a regular issue? Is it more a factor of tires that can now outlast the fuel in the tank?
    See above. You can't make them fill 'er up...Tires are very good and will, in most cases, outlast a tank of fuel easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Double file restarts- Much ado about nothing. It did keep the field more packed for a lap or two. And for all the talk the drivers had about not wanting it why were they going 3 and 4 wide?? I would've been fine without them at Indy and road courses.
    Agreed. Much ado about nothing. It does require the drivers to keep the dumba$$ gene under control, but the aggressive ones that know how to race are going to benifit on ovals. I don't think it gets you much on most road courses and definately not on street circuits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    The start of the race. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 3 abreast parade lap something making a reappearance?? I was thinking at some point the cars quit doing that and didn't line up 3 abreast until the backstretch of the last pace lap before going green. The start looked sloppier in person than it did on TV. I'm not really sure what happened. It looked like Tagliani started to go, hesitated, and then got caught napping while Dixon just took off. ...But I thought they were accelerating before where they were supposed to for the start to begin with. But maybe that changed in the same compromise about the go zone for the 2 wide restarts on Sat and the media never got and/or disseminated the message.
    You may thank The Great Brian B for the demise of that tradition, because despite the lip service given to it, he doesn't give a damn about it. When was the last time it was enforced? When was the last time they waved off a start because of the raggedy a$$ed lineup?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    As I said in the other thread, Barnhart's comments about the ending and the rule interpretations used don't make a whole lot of sense. What happened made sense to the fans because basically, they saw Wheldon clearly pass before the yellow light came on. Then Hildebrand slide across 2nd. But then later comments contradict that. That's not really why Wheldon's pass counted and why he won if we listen to what was said by officials. OK. Someone needs to have an internal meeting and clear up exactly what the rules are in a similar scenario. What was ultimately said would mean even if Hildebrand had managed to slide across the line before Wheldon passed him Hildebrand still would not have been declared the winner. But to follow the logic in that (wounded car, caused yellow, not drivable, etc) then how do you award him 2nd place??? This stuff isn't brain surgery... Just find a clear rule and stick with it.
    It has something to do with the car that caused the yellow, the moon cycle and the ammount of potato salad left in the pagoda after half distance...They didn't do themselves any favors trying to "explain" their decision...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    To say simply the yellow wouldn't matter because you're always allowed to pass a wrecked car leaves some scenarios open. For one thing, you don't race back to the line under yellow. You're supposed to slow under yellow and maintain your position. So while you clearly can pass a wrecked car, can you 'race' a sliding wreck? What if it's the last lap and a car is limping back under yellow with a broken suspension? If they can maintain "pace speed" can you still just go ahead and pass them because they are wrecked? Just close the loopholes and make sure everyone knows the rules. It doesn't matter what they are so much as it matters that they are clear to everyone.
    Not sure how the Indycar rule book reads on that one. The USAC book, if I remember right, has to do with whether or not the car causing the caution is still mobile. As in if a car spins and causes a caution, the cars behind cannot pass once the yellow is waved. Cars that pass before the caution, good to go. UNLESS THE CAR STALLS!!! The the car is stopped on track and everyone can pass and it falls to the tail of the running order. How they make the determination that a car with 2 wheels off is ambulatory or not, I don't know, but he was still moving and crossed the line under his own power. I suspect a magic 8 ball was involved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    The crowd was great yesterday. It's hard to say whether there were truly more seats filled than last year though. I wonder if scalpers snapped up tickets this year increasing sales for the track, then sold those tickets since they helped create a supply and demand issue plus the extra buzz for the 100th anniversary, but ultimately ended up with the same # of people in the seats. But I can't see the infield from my seats or T2 or T3. I can see the lower level seats behind pitlane at the early pits. I still say paint those seats differently and make them general admission seats. It's going to be a tough sell ever selling those seats again IMHO. That would allow some infield people to fill those... and more room possibly on the infield viewing mounds as some of those people take these seats. Heck, sell those seats CHEAPER than gen admission. Or else just do away with them entirely... make them vendor areas...
    Lot of folks said it was the biggest since 95. RMiller said the scalpers said they were actually selling seats this year! I agree the lower seats are very bad and that's a great idea for using them or taking them out. We made the mistake of sitting there one year for the neck car race and could see about six inches of roof going by...
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    I think we just saw something that has become a proven fact, rarely does the guy with the best car win the race. Due to differences between race day and qualifying as well as fuel strategies, I thought the best cars all day were Rahal, Danica, and even Marco for a stretch. Not to say that Wheldon didn't have a good car, just that I thought he and Hildebrand both benefited more from fuel strategy than car performance.

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Too bad Sheckter didn't win, that would have netted me $500
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP63 View Post
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    You may thank The Great Brian B for the demise of that tradition, because despite the lip service given to it, he doesn't give a damn about it. When was the last time it was enforced? When was the last time they waved off a start because of the raggedy a$$ed lineup?
    Two years ago. Helio was on the pole and got such a large jump at the start they waved it off. But I do agree, if Barnhart really does care, he could start fining drivers.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Also, was Kimball the guy that was so slow in turn 4 on the last lap that Hildebrand had to pass? Because IMO, he owes Hildebrand an apology, if you're gonna go through a turn that slow and you have the leader coming up on you, you should be taking the high line and let the leader have the low line.

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Yes, Kimball was the car that JR tried to pass in 4.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Yes, Kimball was the car that JR tried to pass in 4.
    Then he totally blew it IMO.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Oh indeed did he blow it. The real irony is I could see JR getting Charlie's seat in a few years. Charlie is a Ganassi driver. 3 of Chip's 4 guys led the race at some point, guess who didn't.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    2 more thoughts that I intended to include and forgot about...

    I'd be perfectly fine with bringing the apron back and allowing drivers to use it during the race. That adds an extra groove to the track (so would give slower cars the ability to pull down really low for one thing). ....That said....another thought... Maybe the black flag needs to fly when cars start slowing down 10-15-20MPH off the pace to conserve fuel?

    Also... what was up with the wave around timing? I'm sure at least a couple of times the waved around cars didn't have time to catch the field before it went green. ...and if they did later it was only because they had to smash the gas to do it.
    Last edited by Bball; 05-31-2011 at 12:16 PM.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    -John Wooden

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Anyone notice the Pacers logo on Hildebrand's car?

    Maybe that was the cause of his bad luck.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    2 more thoughts that I intended to include and forgot about...

    I'd be perfectly fine with bringing the apron back and allowing drivers to use it during the race. That adds an extra groove to the track (so would give slower cars the ability to pull down really low for one thing). ....That said....another thought... Maybe the black flag needs to fly when cars start slowing down 10-15-20MPH off the pace to conserve fuel?

    Also... what was up with the wave around timing? I'm sure at least a couple of times the waved around cars didn't have time to catch the field before it went green. ...and if they did later it was only because they had to smash the gas to do it.
    Apron? Hell yes. It would help eliminate the terror from the two wide restarts. But, and it's a big one, that's IMS's call. Not Indycar. That means you have to deal with TG who allowed it to be done away with in the first place...The answer to your other two questions are...wait for it...RACE CONTROL. That's right, TGBB makes the call on the "maintain a competitive speed" and who get's the wave around. He was probably too busy screaming at somebody to worry about some trivial item like who gets the wave around I don't know if you can do it, but if you ever get the chance to listen in to the race control frequency, it can be quite enlightening...
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    IIRC one of the reasons given for removal of the apron was the angle drivers would hit the wall if losing control on the apron. This would've been based on the era when the driver's legs and feet were much more forward than they are these days in the car. With the SAFER barrier and design of the cars these days it might actually be safer if the apron was returned giving cars a couple of lines thru the corners as well as some margin of error (particularly with double-file restarts).

    I do have the ability to listen to race control but I usually avoid it. I'm not a fan of The Great Brian Barnhart. I have no idea how he's managed to stay on with IMS/Indycar thru all these changes. Even if I thought he was doing great, I'd agree that a change needs made just for PR and perception reasons. But since I think he's got a vision vastly counter to my own for Indycar racing and Indy.... as well as I question his credentials and ability... then color me confused how he has held onto his job thru all this time and even regime change.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Anyone notice the Pacers logo on Hildebrand's car?

    Maybe that was the cause of his bad luck.
    Pacers have been one of the sponsors on Panther racing's cars for years.

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    IIRC one of the reasons given for removal of the apron was the angle drivers would hit the wall if losing control on the apron. This would've been based on the era when the driver's legs and feet were much more forward than they are these days in the car. With the SAFER barrier and design of the cars these days it might actually be safer if the apron was returned giving cars a couple of lines thru the corners as well as some margin of error (particularly with double-file restarts).

    I do have the ability to listen to race control but I usually avoid it. I'm not a fan of The Great Brian Barnhart. I have no idea how he's managed to stay on with IMS/Indycar thru all these changes. Even if I thought he was doing great, I'd agree that a change needs made just for PR and perception reasons. But since I think he's got a vision vastly counter to my own for Indycar racing and Indy.... as well as I question his credentials and ability... then color me confused how he has held onto his job thru all this time and even regime change.
    There's a groundswell rising up to get the apron back, for all the reasons you mentioned. (Check RMiller's mailbag on Speed). Hope it comes off. TGBB is and enigma and he must have compromising photos of a lot of higher ups in Indycar to survive as long as he has. If they would just *****can him and replace him with somebody that knows how to run a race, that would be great...As an aside, got an email from RM re: the two wide restarts and he said that Rick Mears basically called the whiners a slang term for a female reproductive organ.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

  21. #18
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Could Brian Barnhart be 'safe' in his job over what he knows about the 2002 Indy 500 and how that all played out behind the scenes?? Is that the true 'compromising photos' that he holds?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    A happy Roy is a good Roy DaveP63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Could well be, God knows somebody screwed the pooch on that one...Still, it'd be nice if somebody looked him right in the eye and told him to FO. It might happen someday, we can always hope!
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP63 View Post
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    As an aside, got an email from RM re: the two wide restarts and he said that Rick Mears basically called the whiners a slang term for a female reproductive organ.
    Good for Rick. Those crybabies need to stuff it. If the Indy Lights guys can do double file restarts just fine at Indy, so can they!
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    You can tell that there's not very many in the field that have short track open wheel experience...Instead of thinking "Oh My God, Were All Gonna DIE!!!" They should be thinking "Wohoo! Free positions! How many can I jump on the restart!"
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Could Brian Barnhart be 'safe' in his job over what he knows about the 2002 Indy 500 and how that all played out behind the scenes?? Is that the true 'compromising photos' that he holds?




    Would you mind rehashing that out for me? I was at that race, but it was 9 years ago and I was still fairly young. A lot of people still believe Tracy really won that race, correct?

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Would have liked a few more pics of the Redline Energy gals ................

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Would you mind rehashing that out for me? I was at that race, but it was 9 years ago and I was still fairly young. A lot of people still believe Tracy really won that race, correct?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Rd4...eature=related

    Pay no attention to the broadcast commentary as far as their idea of rules go. They are generally clueless. You can hear Paul Page saying that scoring reverts back to the previous lap. But that clearly wasn't the case. Ultimately, after the protest and appeal the IRL ruled that the decision would stand because the chief steward said that's the way it is and couldn't be challenged.... even after they allowed it to be challenged and let that carry thru to appeal.

    Clearly, Tracy would in almost all certainty have passed Helio had the race stayed green. Tracy took the checkered flag as the leader too... adding to the confusion.

    By that point in time the cars had yellow lights on the dash. I have no idea how well synchronized everything is... would the yellow in the car come on before the track yellows if only by the blink of an eye? Also, there was a major delay in going yellow between the crash and the track going yellow. Which just serves to complicate things.

    Lastly, not mentioned but something to think about... Helio was in fuel saving mode. Perhaps his crew jumped the gun TELLING him yellow (or 'accident') when they saw the crash happen (assuming the track would immediately go yellow) so that he could slow and save every last drop of fuel.

    Helio's public argument has always been he would never had slowed that much and allowed Tracy to pass him that easily except for that the track had went yellow.

    And just like this year... the officials couldn't articulate a clear and concise explanation of the rules to explain how the decision played out as it did. In 2002 they were challenged on that and ultimately went with the "we win because that's the way we say it is and there's nothing you can do about it" argument.... In 2011 Barnes didn't challenge the ruling. That helps placate fans, especially since it was obvious Wheldon passed before the yellow came on and they assume that is what matters. But track officials have went down a different path to explain the outcome... and it's one that doesn't make a whole lot of sense based on history and the decision on the final standings of this event.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

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    Default Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Excellent recap. I would also add the PT dirty Champcar invader versus Helio the IRL golden boy, driving for stalwart Roger Penske angle into consideration also. You can watch the footage and make your own conclusion
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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