View Poll Results: Who was better?

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  • Wade/Lebron are superior when you consider the overall effect on the teams defense

    9 14.75%
  • Scottie/MJ effect on their teams defense was superior

    52 85.25%
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Thread: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

  1. #26
    Member ilive4sports's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    If he wasn't so big and atheletic, he'd be a poor defender in a traditional sense.
    If he wasn't so big and athletic he wouldn't be the best player in the game. But he is.

    I love watching this series because of the defense LeBron is playing. It is nothing short of incredible. LeBron and Wade make a team a defensive juggernaut with players like Mike Bibby and Chris Bosh on the court.

    I think its too soon to say they are better than MJ/Pippen, but I can see them being better. LeBron has all the tools to be the best defender ever.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I think it's definitely Jordan/Pippen because they took the challenge of guarding the opposition's best players for the whole game instead of guarding jump shooters for the first 44 minutes of games.

  4. #28
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Jordan/Pippen win this because they did it for so long. LeBron/Wade could certainly get to that point, though.

    You're talking two of the top defensive wing tandems in history. One tandem is done and proven, the other is still writing their history.
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    LeBron's a more disruptive defender than I've maybe ever seen. He can stay home on a shooter AND play a passing lane. More impressive is that the other team can start a fast break at full speed with LeBron taking off from a stand still and he STILL catches up and blocks the shot. He plays defense kind of flat footed and gives up a lot of space but his recovery time is so insanely fast that he can still block or disturb the shot.

    He falls asleep every once in a while or ball watches more than he should and gives up easy buckets. Deng has scored a couple times a game this series just because LeBron was lazy closing out or was looking the other way.

    LeBron and Wade seem to both like the art of defense more than the industry of it, which I don't mind.

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  8. #30
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    He played him for the jump shot, pushed him to the side with help coming, if he got past him. DRose didn't recognize what was going on until it was too late.

    They'll watch film, if it happens again, DRose will attack the trap coming and dish for a wide open player, while Lebron stands and watches. Watch.

    Since we are picking isolated incidents, I did see Lebron left standing at the elbow with his junk in his hand after DRose drove by him for an uncontested layup in transition, in the 4th. If he was a great defender, he reconizes the situation, moves his feet, gets in front of DRose and makes him pull the ball back out, instead, Olay!

    He "could" be the best defender in the league, with his combo of strength and speed, but he has very little understanding/desire of how to be a great wing defender.
    You are criticizing him for getting beat on a few plays by one of the quickest players in the league and current MVP. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to stop Derrick Rose on every single play, especially when the rules are set up to give him the advantage?

    If you don't think Lebron is a great defender, then you just don't know one when you see it. His defense has been the most dominating factor in the series by far.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 05-25-2011 at 04:55 PM.

  9. #31
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    You are criticizing him for getting beat on a few plays by one of the quickest players in the league and current MVP. Do you have any idea how hard it would be to stop Derrick Rose on every single play, especially when the rules are set up to give him the advantage?

    If you don't think Lebron is a great defender, then you just don't know one when you see it. His defense has been the most dominating factor in the series by far.
    Post #6, explains why I think this. Clearly, though I don't know a great defender when I see one. Teach me.

  10. #32
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Post #6, explains why I think this. Clearly, though I don't know a great defender when I see one. Teach me.
    I'll teach you. If you can't simply watch the game and observe great defense, try studying the box score after the game. I'll give you an example. In last nights game, Lebron defended Rose, helping him shoot 29% from the field, have 7 T/O's, and only 6 assists. That means he's good at defense. Lesson learned!

  11. #33

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    If he wasn't so big and atheletic, he'd be a poor defender in a traditional sense.
    And if Aretha Franklin didn't have such a great voice she'd be a bad singer. You can't separate physical gifts when evaluating talent.

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  13. #34
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I'll teach you. If you can't simply watch the game and observe great defense, try studying the box score after the game. I'll give you an example. In last nights game, Lebron defended Rose, helping him shoot 29% from the field, have 7 T/O's, and only 6 assists. That means he's good at defense. Lesson learned!
    LeBron only guarded Rose part of the game FWIW.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Pippen is the best defender I have ever seen.

    That alone wins this to me. The other 3 guys can all play some defense, but Pippen is on another planet. Pippen would guard bangers in the post, or the quickest guards in the league and was dominant either way.

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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Turtles coming out of the woodwork at me, boiiii.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Post #6, explains why I think this. Clearly, though I don't know a great defender when I see one. Teach me.
    It's pretty simple really. He is just about the only player in the league that can challenge any offensive player on any play. He has the athleticism, size and strength to compete with any player in the league at any position on the floor. He can play the passing lanes like the quickest guards in the league. And he can protect the basket like a 7 footer. Not many guys in the history of the league can say that.

    He is not as good of a perimeter defender as Scottie Pippen. But Scottie Pippen wasn't the factor in the paint LBJ is.

    Nobody has said he doesn't have weaknesses or put it on cruise control on occasion and make mental errors. But that most definitely doesn't make him any less of a great defender.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Nobody has said he doesn't have weaknesses or put it on cruise control on occasion and make mental errors. But that most definitely doesn't make him any less of a great defender.
    We have different definitions of great defender is all. No worries.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I don't know for sure what order to rank the other three guys in but Scottie Pippen is the best defensive wing in the history of the league, imo. He guarded big guys in the post, he guarded fast guys out on the perimeter. He was strong enough to muscle you, long enough to disrupt you, fast enough to chase you down, get set in front of you, or recover off of help defense and closeout. Blocks, steals, deflections, charges, man to man defense, help defense - Scottie could give you whatever was called for in any given situation. He was the best during the regular season and somehow he got even better during the playoffs. I feared his defense just as much as I feared MJs offense.

    Like a lot of you, I hated those Bulls teams, but watching Scottie play defense was a thing of beauty (or agony when it was against the Pacers). Just talking about it makes me want to go look up that series of youtube videos of Pippen's defense highlights that someone posted on this board awhile back.

    Maybe LeBron could end up with a similar reputation when his career comes to an end. But he's not there yet.
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    We have different definitions of great defender is all. No worries.
    Is he not a great offensive player then? He puts it on cruise control on offense too sometimes.

    Dwight Howard gets lazy sometimes. Are you gonna tell me he's not a great defender?

  22. #41
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Get back to me on this when Lebron and Wade win their 6th title together

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I'm not a Jordan fan by a long shot, but it's not even close. Jordan and Pippen hands down. Pippen was a far better defender then Lebron and Jordan was a better defender then Wade. Jordan isn't really remembered for his D, but I think you guys are forgetting how good he was. Jordan had 9 all defensive 1st. team selections. You don't get there by being a below average defender.

  25. #43

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Lebron is amazing but Wade isn't that great of a defender. He has his moments, like that killer block last night, but he isn't at the level of MJ or Scottie, two of the greatest defenders ever.
    If that is the case, are we going to say Lebron is that much better than MJ or Scottie that he makes up for Wade? I can't do that.

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  27. #44
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    Get back to me on this when Lebron and Wade win their 6th title together
    So Mark Madsen is better than Reggie Miller?

  28. #45

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Also don't forget that LeBron plays this kind of defense while being the primary offensive weapon on the other end. 90% of the time he's the best offensive AND defensive player on the floor at the same time. Pippen was great defensively but he also didn't expend the kind of energy on offense that LeBron does.

    And as for great defensive combos, I'm not sure I've seen a better duo than Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan in the mid-2000s. They weren't as flashy about it but when they were both on the floor it was almost impossible to drive and score. They made the all-defensive first or second team together SEVEN TIMES.

  29. #46
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Remember, the rules are against LeBron/Wade on defense these days too. MJ/Pippen definitely had the advantage of playing in the 90s when it comes to defense.

    But like I said, its too early to say LeBron/Wade is better or as good. I think they can be as good or better, but they aren't yet.

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  31. #47
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I can't wait to see Lebron guard Dirk.

    But yeah, the quickness of the LeBron, Wade duo defensively is pretty impressive.

  32. #48
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I can't wait to see Lebron guard Dirk.
    Agreed.

    That has got to be the most fantastic matchup in NBA finals history. You're talking about probably the most unstoppable scorer in the NBA today, vs either the best or second best defensive player in the game today. Awesome.

    I'll say this though, Miami will probably just leave Bosh on Dirk for the majority of the game. I think if they do that, it will be absolutely devastating for the Heat. Dirk would have a field day with Bosh.

    Since Dirk is a 7 foot wing, in all reality, and Lebron is a point guard in a powerforwards body, Miami should just start Lebron at PF. Why not? That would be a horrible matchup for the Mavs as Dirk would obviously not be able to defend Lebron. I think it's a no brainer really. LeBron would probably kill Dirk on the boards as well.

    No matter what happens it will be great. I cannot wait.

  33. #49
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I can't wait to see Lebron guard Dirk.

    But yeah, the quickness of the LeBron, Wade duo defensively is pretty impressive.
    I still cling to that small hope that Lebron won't make it that far.

  34. #50

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I'll teach you. If you can't simply watch the game and observe great defense, try studying the box score after the game. I'll give you an example. In last nights game, Lebron defended Rose, helping him shoot 29% from the field, have 7 T/O's, and only 6 assists. That means he's good at defense. Lesson learned!
    Except that that has not been outside the norm for Rose during the entire playoffs. It's not because of Lebron (who didn't guard him the entire game). For all the (undue) praise he's been getting, Rose has played like crap.

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