View Poll Results: Who was better?

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  • Wade/Lebron are superior when you consider the overall effect on the teams defense

    9 14.75%
  • Scottie/MJ effect on their teams defense was superior

    52 85.25%
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Thread: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

  1. #1
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    In all seriousness, it's not too crazy just to consider it is it?

    We're watching a clinic by Wade and Lebron. These guys are all over the court protecting the rim, blocking shots... steals which turn into instant fast breaks. They both also have to guard the MVP of the league who is having an absolutely terrible series. What do you think?

    Just something to think about: Right now, both Wade and Lebron have more blocks this post season than every post season Pippen played except one. That one season he played 8 more games.
    Last edited by mattie; 05-25-2011 at 03:34 PM.

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    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I think thats a great topic

    I wonder what or how the stat geeks would break it down but

    man , really good question. would have to ponder that for awhile
    Sittin on top of the world!

  3. #3
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    I think thats a great topic

    I wonder what or how the stat geeks would break it down but

    man , really good question. would have to ponder that for awhile
    Agreed. Both combos were incredible defenders... I think we can all agree we've never seen two players effect a game on defense like this since Scottie and Mike though.

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  5. #4

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    If I recall...Jordan and Pippen were great defenders as soon as they entered the league...Jordan learned how to play D at NC and Pippen was always a great defender....Pippen could actually guard any PG for the entire game if he had to...Thats something the other 3 can do for stretches but I'm not sure if they can do it consistently for an entire game...Lebron I guess is proving he can do that now against Rose...But it took Wade and Lebron a few years to become elite defenders so I'll give the edge to Jordan and Pippen...Lebron is the best shot blocker out of the bunch with the other 3 being like 1a, 1b, 1c, lol...

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I think Lebron is a better defensive player than MJ/Pippen.

    I say that because Lebron is doing what he's doing under the new handchecking rules. He has to be able to stay in front of these small/quick guards without benefit of being able to bump/handcheck them. MJ/Pippen were able to physically abuse a lot of smaller guards defensively (see Jackson, Mark) because the refs didn't call the game back then the way they do now.

    Wade is pretty mean defensively himself. And keep in mind the Heat are doing what they're doing without benefit of a Horace Grant or Rodman like defender in the frontcourt. Yeah, Haslem is good, but not at the level of those two.

  7. #6
    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I think Lebron is way overated and shouldn't be on any all defensive team. He does the flashy, but isn't a consistently good defender in anyway. He plays the passing lanes, gets the steal. Hustles back on D to get the spectacular block on a fast break. Watch him in general, he plays poor team defense at times, loses his man in the half court, at times, if he doesn't have the ball.

    If he wasn't so big and atheletic, he'd be a poor defender in a traditional sense. He has recovery speed, like they say in football, but he's generally not a smart defender, in a team concept. I'd call him above average, but not drastically so, and its all based on physical gifts, mostly.

    Way overated, imo.
    Last edited by Speed; 05-25-2011 at 12:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think Lebron is way overated and shouldn't be on any all defensive team. He does the flashy, but isn't a consistently good defender in anyway. He plays the passing lanes, gets the steal. Hustles back on D to get the spectacular block on a fast break. Watch him in general, he plays poor team defense at times, loses his man in the half court, at times, if he doesn't have the ball.

    Way overated, imo.
    Obviously you haven't been watching his defense this series.

    He's the defensive anchor for the best or 2nd best defensive team in the league and he shut down the league MVP last night when it mattered most.

  10. #8
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Obviously you haven't been watching his defense this series.

    He's the defensive anchor for the best or 2nd best defensive team in the league and he shut down the league MVP last night when it mattered most.
    He played him for the jump shot, pushed him to the side with help coming, if he got past him. DRose didn't recognize what was going on until it was too late.

    They'll watch film, if it happens again, DRose will attack the trap coming and dish for a wide open player, while Lebron stands and watches. Watch.

    Since we are picking isolated incidents, I did see Lebron left standing at the elbow with his junk in his hand after DRose drove by him for an uncontested layup in transition, in the 4th. If he was a great defender, he reconizes the situation, moves his feet, gets in front of DRose and makes him pull the ball back out, instead, Olay!

    He "could" be the best defender in the league, with his combo of strength and speed, but he has very little understanding/desire of how to be a great wing defender.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    MJ/Pipen hands down, let's not forget that even the Pacers made the Bulls look vulnerable, the Bulls are not that hard to defend because everything goes trough Rose, I'm expecting Dallas to make them look bad.

  13. #10

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    No and this is coming from someone who loathed really loathed the Bulls...

    Not to mention the rules were totally different. LeBron/Wade can get away with anything.. then again so could Jordan but at least he was way more skilled to me.

  14. #11

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Excellent poll question. I had a hard time with this one because I think Scottie was clearly the better defender of the four and DWade is clearly the weakest of the group.

    It really come down to how much better is Lebron than Jordan. While some think Lebron is over-rated on "D", I think he is way better than Jordan ever was. Jordan never played half court "D", he only made the block from behind or steal thru the lane. Reggie and other 2 guards would score at will on him.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Not to mention the rules were totally different. LeBron/Wade can get away with anything.. then again so could Jordan but at least he was way more skilled to me.
    Talk to Mark Jackson about the stuff Pippen was able to get away with back when the Pacers and Bulls played.

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  17. #13

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Talk to Mark Jackson about the stuff Pippen was able to get away with back when the Pacers and Bulls played.
    I don't doubt it but the NBA has become really soft now compared to back then...


    I can't imagine LeBron/Wade even dealing with that now. They have it easier.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    It really come down to how much better is Lebron than Jordan. While some think Lebron is over-rated on "D", I think he is way better than Jordan ever was. Jordan never played half court "D", he only made the block from behind or steal thru the lane. Reggie and other 2 guards would score at will on him.
    And Jordan never guarded 4 positions like Lebron has shown he can. The fact that Lebron is the ANCHOR of the best or 2nd best defensive unit in the league is somehow getting lost on people.

  19. #15

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Currently, I will still say MJ/Pippen because of how their defense anchored the Bulls to 6 titles. But in a few years I believe that James/Wade defensive combo will be better. Their physical capabilities plus their size and athleticism just gives them tremendous advantage especially when they are already getting it on defense. Stopping Rose, who is far more athletic and explosive than most guards of the 90's NBA, is one big step in getting that recognition as the best 1-2 punch on defense in this generation's NBA. Wade can easily guard 1s and 2s, and LeBron is almost capable of guarding all positions because of his large frame and size combined with explosive speed.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I don't doubt it but the NBA has become really soft now compared to back then...


    I can't imagine LeBron/Wade even dealing with that now. They have it easier.
    Defensively? It's harder to play shutdown defense on the perimeter now than it was back then simply because you aren't allowed to bump/handcheck and just all out maul opposing guards the way MJ/Pippen (and especially Pippen) used to.

  22. #17

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    And Jordan never guarded 4 positions like Lebron has shown he can. The fact that Lebron is the ANCHOR of the best or 2nd best defensive unit in the league is somehow getting lost on people.
    Yea I remember Phil Jackson had to put Pippen on Marc Jackson when he was bringing the ball up. Funny now that a Jordan who is a guard wasnt asked, but the coach asked a forward to do it. Pippen was the defensive anchor of that team not Jordan. MJ or Dwade shouldnt be considered great defenders. Scottie was the best I ever seen, Lebron is one of the best today.

  23. #18
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Yea I remember Phil Jackson had to put Pippen on Marc Jackson when he was bringing the ball up. Funny now that a Jordan who is a guard wasnt asked, but the coach asked a forward to do it. Pippen was the defensive anchor of that team not Jordan. MJ or Dwade shouldnt be considered great defenders. Scottie was the best I ever seen, Lebron is one of the best today.
    Also, spawned one the best picks ever set in NBA history, imo, by DD. I bet Scottie just got a cold chill, just from me mentioning it.

  24. #19
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    I'm not making an argument either way because I haven't made up my mind, but let's make sure we're being honest or we've paid attention.

    Wade is an incredible defender and has always been one, though he is much better now than he was a few years ago. Wade's defense has always been criticized funny enough because people wanted to convince themselves Kobe was better, so they'd use that in their argument "well wade doesn't play D."

    He plays excellent on ball defense, he's always been the best shot blocker of the 4. Wade has done that his entire career, always playing help D looking for the block that leads to the fast break. Wade never goes for spectacular blocks but tries to hit it too himself or his teammates so a lot of times it goes unnoticed.

    Lastly, MJ was also a great defender. Just because Pippen, one of the greatest defenders the game has ever seen was better does not mean MJ couldn't play D. MJ could defend any guard in the league. Reggie regularly had sub par games against MJ because he was so good.

  25. #20

    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    When this trio united, I was most scared of the defensive combo of these two. Same reason I wasn't worried about the Carmelo-AI combo, the Phoenix trio, Melo and Stoudamire.

    The ability of these two to play elite defense is the biggest reason they, along with D. Howard and Kobe (although Kobe has slipped out of this group), are in a different class than everyone else. Sucks that two of those three/four people are on the same squad.

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  27. #21
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    When this trio united, I was most scared of the defensive combo of these two. Same reason I wasn't worried about the Carmelo-AI combo, the Phoenix trio, Melo and Stoudamire.

    The ability of these two to play elite defense is the biggest reason they, along with D. Howard and Kobe (although Kobe has slipped out of this group), are in a different class than everyone else. Sucks that two of those three/four people are on the same squad.
    It's why I just cannot appreciate 'Melo as a player. That dude couldn't defend Dale Davis if Dale was told he had to run a fast break from one side of the court to the other.

    I just don't understand it, I think he's the most gifted offensive player in the league. If he just played defense he'd be a legend.

  28. #22
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Scottie is one of the greatest defensive players in NBA history. Jordan was no slouch himself. LeBron and Wade are good, but they aren't on the level of Jordan/Pippen defensively.

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  30. #23
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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    I think Lebron is a better defensive player than MJ/Pippen.

    I say that because Lebron is doing what he's doing under the new handchecking rules. He has to be able to stay in front of these small/quick guards without benefit of being able to bump/handcheck them. MJ/Pippen were able to physically abuse a lot of smaller guards defensively (see Jackson, Mark) because the refs didn't call the game back then the way they do now.

    Wade is pretty mean defensively himself. And keep in mind the Heat are doing what they're doing without benefit of a Horace Grant or Rodman like defender in the frontcourt. Yeah, Haslem is good, but not at the level of those two.
    This is what Lebron is able to do and ( unfortunately ) do very well. If he's able to did it against the Pacers with a super quick PG like DC....he's able the same against any other PG in the league.

    That is what makes the difference with Lebron and the Heat...if they can afford to stick Bibby/Chalmers on a non-super-scoring Wing Player, then they can throw Lebron at an opposing PG like Derrick Rose, Westbrook or ( more then likely ) Kidd and severely disrupt their effectiveness at the Point. PGs aren't used to be aggressively defended by ( what essentially boils down to ) a strong and tall Linebacker that won't give you an inch.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    The question needs to be re-examined in about 5 or 6 years. But right now compaing Scottie and MJ to 1 season of Wade and Lebron? Scottie and MJ were better. Scottie was the best wing defender I have ever seen. He was the best one-on-one defender and the best help/team defender
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 05-25-2011 at 01:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Are Wade/Lebron better defenders as a whole than MJ/Scottie were?

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Yea I remember Phil Jackson had to put Pippen on Marc Jackson when he was bringing the ball up. Funny now that a Jordan who is a guard wasnt asked, but the coach asked a forward to do it.
    Jordan didn't have a 7'3" wingspan.

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