View Poll Results: Your preference for the next Pacers head coach between Frank Vogel and Dwane Casey

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  • Frank Vogel

    89 79.46%
  • Dwane Casey

    9 8.04%
  • It's a toss up

    14 12.50%
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Thread: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

  1. #1
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    Default Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Which would you prefer to be our next head coach, assuming it's going to be one or the other, and why?

    When the question was Mike Brown or Frank Vogel, I sided with Mike because I knew him from his time here, he's a big time Poppovich AND Carlisle guy, and I thought he was a good coach in Cleveland, so I preferred that more than I preferred the still unproven Frank Vogel.

    With Dwane Casey, I know little about him, but it means a lot to me that he's also a Rick Carlisle guy.

    Unlike Mike, Dwane's previous stop as a head coach was a mediocre at best Timberwolves team that had a losing record his first year, but in year 2 they fired him while they were a .500 team, and then that team fell apart.

    As before with Mike vs. Frank, though this time I'm less confident when I say this, we probably can't lose here if those are our two choices.

    But this time, I don't know who I'd really prefer. I could say I lean Frank because I'm familiar with him and I liked what he did as the interim head coach, but I could also lean towards Dwane Casey because he's more experienced and is one of 'Rick's guys.'

    I'm torn on this one.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Give me Rick.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    I was all in on Mike Brown for coach. Now that he is out, I'm all in for Vogel.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Based on what I know, I would probably side with Vogel. I think Casey is a good candidate though and I would not be upset at all if he is hired.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Give me Rick.
    That's not the question.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Give me Rick.

    Yeah but do you want Rick Vogel or Rick Casey

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Man, I am like you Hicks in that I dont know a great deal about Casey

    If it came down to Vogel or Casey I think I would go with Vogel, simply because I dont see Casey as a huge upgrade over Vogel , and if they are almost even,m why not reward the good soldier

    So yeah if it comes down to those two I say Vogel

    My first choice would be Addleman, followed by Jeff VanGundy, then Vogel
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    We don't know much about Casey or Vogel to be honest. Vogel didn't have much of a chance to work in his system, but I think he got the players to listen to him and that's says a lot.

    What type of system would Vogel look to implement if he became coach. Is he offensive or defensive minded?

    I know nothing of Casey, but I would gander he would be defensive minded if he worked under Carlisle.

    I voted Vogel.
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Here is a very good summary of Casey. Couple of years old and his stock has increased since then. Some great stuff in here, and a good Q&A at the end with Casey.

    http://www.reclinergm.com/who-is-dwa...hing-position/


    Who is Dwane Casey and Why Has He Been Interviewed a Second Time for the Sixers’ Head Coaching Position

    First let me start with the news that Phil Jasner is reporting.
    Dwane Casey, who has just completed his first season as an assistant with the Dallas Mavericks, has had a second interview for the 76ers’ vacant coaching job, according to a source familiar with the situation.
    Exactly when or where the second session with Sixers president/general manager Ed Stefanski took place remains unclear. The first meting came last week in Santa Monica, Ca. while Stefanski was in the area scouting a group of college players for the upcoming NBA draft. – Phil Jasner
    This is the first report of a second interview for anyone and for many it probably comes as a bit of a surprise. Is it a signal Ed Stefanski and crew has really taken a liking to Casey and he is now the front runner? One can only speculate but it certainly isn’t a stretch.

    Dwane Casey: Summary

    So I am going to break this down two ways. The quick and dirty synopsis of what I found about Dwane Casey and below I will give those how want more depth some of the stuff I actually found about him to read at your leisure. I found some ESPN analysts’ opinions as well as Timberwolves fans’ opinions in Casey.

    Some Particulars
    Casey is currently an assistant coach with the Dallas Mavericks (1st year). Prior to that he was hired as the head coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves at the start of the 2005 NBA season. The team finished with a 33-49 record. Not really good but not unexpected either considering the roster which was completely shook up 40 games into the season whey they traded Wally Szczerbiak who was actually playing quite well next to KG. Worth noting as bad as that team was they were still 9th in defensive rating that season under Casey who is known for being a strong defensive coach.

    The following season Casey only lasted 40 games. He was promptly fired with a 20-20 record after the Wolves lost 4 straight games by large margins (more on this below). Worth noting, going into the ’06-’07 season the Timberwolves were expected to be pretty bad. Certainly not a playoff team and vying for a good lottery spot. At the time Casey was fired he had the Wolves in the 8th playoff spot and again in the top 10 in defense. Casey was fired on January 23rd. The Wolves actually started the month 7-1 with a 20-16 record and overachieving dramatically. Two of the 4 straight loses could directly be attributed to a punch KG threw and ejection in one game and being suspended the following game. Needless to say his firing wasn’t all what it seemed. Not to mention he was completely undermined by the front office who dictated who his lead assistant was by forcing Casey choice out for Randy Wittman, his successor. Word is when that decision came down it was just a matter of time before Casey got the axe. It was clear ownership had started the wheels in another direction before Casey was even out the door.

    Prior to that debacle Casey was an assistant coach under George Karl and Nate McMillan in Seattle for 11 seasons (starting in 1994) which means he was apart of that 1996 NBA Finals team.

    Casey coached for 5 seasons in Japan with noted basketball legend Pete Newell leading the National team to their first World Championship appareance in 31 years. Casey started his coaching career as an assistant to Eddie Sutton at Kentucky (where he also played) and under Clem Haskins at Western Kentucky.






    The Good
    • Defensive focused coach who was moderately successful as a head coach improving this area
    • Loves the game of basketball and is student of the game always looking to learn and improve his coaching ability.
    • Has a diverse coaching background from high level college basketball, NBA and overseas.
    • Said to be a disciplinarian one who won’t let players run over him but not an authoritarian who over coaches and doesn’t accept thoughtful input from key players, assistant coaches or advanced scouts and statisticians.
    • Good at developing players and is fantastic with his game preparation and maximizing practice time.
    • Overachiever
    • According to Dean Oliver who was with the Supersonics while Casey was an assistant, Dwane does use advanced statistical analysis as part of his coaching toolbox.
    The Bad
    • Inexperienced as a head coach with only a year and half under his belt with a bad team. But for an assistant it’s actually more than most.
    • Said to have weird/questionable rotations and substitution patterns and well as still learning/lacking with his in-game management and adjustments such as when to call timeouts and what is executed out of timeouts.
    • Perceived to be laid back (but some also say he is intense enough to compliment that)
    • Would seriously need to paired with a strong offensive lead assistant.
    Summing It Up


    Good up and coming coach who unjustly got a bad reputation in Minnesota coaching one star surrounded by a bunch of misfits. Just needs an opportunity with a club that has a decent roster and managment that has a clue. Has his flaws but isn’t egotisical so he realizes and acknowledges them in order to get better. Jury is still out whether he is best suited as an assistant coach because of his strong prepatory and player development skills or can legitimately a good head coach (can excel in game with rotations and tactical adjustments). But the belief by some people is that he can take mediocre roster and overachieve.
    I am in agreement with something Pete said to me earlier today. While my preference is still Tom Thibodeau I will give whoever the coach is a fair chance.

    Dwane Casey: More Depth

    John Hollinger was a big Casey proponent and was completely dumbfounded when he was fired by Kevin McHale and fools that run that organization.
    Here is the article from Hollinger after Dwane Casey was fired. (my bolding for emphasis of key points)
    Can anyone remember the last time a coach took a team that was expected to be lottery-bound, had them at .500 and in line for a playoff spot at the halfway point of the season in a very tough conference, and got fired anyway?
    I can’t, which makes Dwane Casey’s dismissal by the Minnesota Timberwolves on Tuesday one of the season’s more puzzling events.
    Minnesota hired the guy only a year and a half ago, and the same exec who hired him then — team president Kevin McHale — was the one wielding the hatchet today.
    Somebody, anybody, please tell me what this guy did wrong.

    Casey kept the Wolves in the top half of the league in Defensive Efficiency all season despite basically having only three big men in his rotation — Kevin Garnett, the sporadically motivated Mark Blount and rookie Craig Smith, a second-round draft pick.
    You can’t critique Casey’s late-game strategy either: He more than held his own in close games, winning three straight overtime contests earlier this month.

    But apparently losing four games in a row — two of which can directly be pinned on Garnett’s ejection against Detroit last Friday and subsequent one-game suspension — was too much for Minnesota’s brass to bear. No matter that the Wolves were 7-5 in January, or that they surprisingly held the West’s No. 8 seed heading into Monday’s games.

    Apparently Minnesota management thinks this is still 2003-04 and they’re gunning for the Western Conference title. This would be an absurd notion with almost any other franchise, but the Timberwolves are perhaps the league’s most delusional franchise.

    From the lofty contract extensions they’ve handed out to even their most mediocre players, to the way they’ve axed both Flip Saunders (in February 2005) and now Casey rather than admitting the serial imperfections of the roster, to their current refusal to trade Garnett before his value declines, Minnesota’s front office has existed in an alternate state of reality for some time now.

    In the early hours after McHale’s move, we’re still hunting down all the skeletons associated with Casey’s firing, but one thing is for certain: There’s a good coach walking around today without a job, and he deserved better.
    Let’s hope Casey lands on his feet with one of the many openings that are expected this summer. And in the meantime, let’s hope the Timberwolves can start acting sensible some time before the end of the decade. – John Hollinger
    Here is John Hollinger again before the 2007-2008 season (season after Casey was fired) doing his preseason forecast (cut down and abbreviated with just the Dwane Casey antedotes)
    A bigger factor, however, was head coach Dwane Casey, who had his undersized team competing far more aptly than anyone had thought possible. To the shock of many, he kept the Wolves in the top half of the league in defensive efficiency through the first half of the season and had Minnesota at 20-16 through 36 games.

    While that record was several games better than anyone who covers the league expected, it apparently wasn’t better than the team’s management expected. And when the Timberwolves hit a four-game losing streak that dropped them to 20-20 on Jan. 23, the Wolves made the unbelievable decision to fire Casey — apparently believing their team was capable of much better despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

    My favorite quote was Kevin McHale’s complaint that, “We started the season with certain goals and expectations that have not been met.” What pray tell, were the expectations? Casey had the team in the playoffs as the No. 8 seed in the West on the day he was fired, something which would have won him coach of the year had he kept it up. But McHale somehow thought his trash heap of undesirable contracts was capable of more. In fact, owner Glen Taylor reportedly told Casey that the team was capable of making it to the Western Conference finals. (This might technically be true, but I couldn’t verify if the Hungarian Basketball Association had split into conferences.)

    “We don’t want to be the eighth seed,” McHale said when he fired Casey, and man, did he ever get his wish. Newly instated coach Randy Wittman went 12-30 the rest of the way as Minnesota finished well out of the money. The defense that thrived under Casey almost immediately went in the tank, as the Wolves were one of the league’s bottom three teams in defensive efficiency over the final 42 games.

    Moreover, after McHale complained about a lack of consistency in Casey’s tenure, the team failed to win consecutive games after the All-Star break under Wittman. All told, this had to be the most idiotic coaching switch of the past decade. – John Hollinger
    Chris Sheridan’s take on Casey’s dismissal from the Wolves:
    Today’s dismissal of Dwane Casey appears to me to be a case of “We’d better fire him now while it’s still convenient, because it might not be easier to fire him down the road.”

    The Wolves’ current four-game losing streak gave owner Glen Taylor just enough cover to try to justify the change, but this firing had been coming ever since management forced Casey to get rid of trusted assistant Johnny Davis last summer in order to clear the way for Randy Wittman as the ownership-chosen lead assistant. – Chris Sheridan
    Dwane Casey Interview with Minneapolis Star-Tribune writer Steve Aschburner from January 19, 2007 (right before he was fired) that was sent to me via email.
    Dwane Casey was uncomfortable from the start with an interview that would focus solely on him. The Timberwolves had opened 2007 with four consecutive victories, on the way to a 7-1 mark through the first half of January, and the head coach felt a little awkward being placed front and center during the hot streak, lest someone think he was taking credit for all the happy outcomes. Then it was explained to Casey, midway through his second season at the Wolves’ helm, that the Q&A assignment was conceived two weeks earlier. Back when his job, at least to outsiders, was hanging by a slender thread. Back when the Wolves fell behind by 20 points at Charlotte and you’d swear you could almost hear the folding chairs being set up for a dismissal news conference. Oddly, that reassured the coach, who shoulders blame more readily than he takes credit. Casey talked about that trait and others related to his job as Wolves coach over a lunch with Star Tribune NBA writer Steve Aschburner:

    Q. One difference in you this season is, you’re a married coach rather than engaged. How has your wife, Brenda, a sports marketing executive, handled the ups and downs?
    A. It’s really no different from before. The basketball’s still the same. The focus still is the same. Same time watching tapes. Brenda’s been good – she’s been through it. She understands. She’s a basketball widow. She played basketball, so she knows the game, she knows the time commitment that goes into it. Which makes it a lot easier.

    Q. Does she attend the games?
    A. When she’s in town. She travels a lot. To Chicago – Brian Urlacher is one of her clients, she does his marketing. Also Ben Wallace.

    Q. You give the impression that you’re unflappable. People never see you sweat.
    A. Oh no! It’s just that the media part of it doesn’t bother me. Where I feel the lows is when I haven’t done a good job of preparing the team or couldn’t get things done offensively or defensively. When things are not clicking, I take that on myself. More than media coverage or [job] speculation or anything. Really, going through what I went through at Kentucky – that [recruiting] investigation was [publicized 17 years ago] worldwide – really hardened me as far as coverage or negativity. Whatever happens that way, I can’t control it.

    Q. It’s fashionable in sports to say, if you win, the players won. If you lost, either the other team won or the coach lost.
    A. That’s the age-old adage. I watched what Coach [Joe B.] Hall went through at Kentucky, what Eddie Sutton went through, Tubby Smith. The high-pressure programs are the same as in the NBA: If you win, you’re supposed to. If you don’t, it’s your fault. When you sign up to be a coach in the NBA, I’m a true believer, that’s what we sign up for. That type of criticism, that non-appreciative [view].

    Q. How are you different in this job from a year ago?
    A. More confident in what we do. More comfortable. Our core guys, the more time we spend together, the better. Same with our coaching staff. We’re coming up on a year [since the Wolves-Boston trade]. And now you add three more guys to the rotation – Mike [James], Craig [Smith] and Randy [Foye] – it’s an ongoing process. We’re no finished product. By getting this time together, coming up on a year, we’re jelling. You can just see the togetherness coming, the trust, as the season goes on.

    Q. You’re more secure in your rotation, which means sitting some guys for days on end.
    A. Last year, more than anything else, I was searching to see what guys could do. I didn’t know if A.C. [Anthony Carter] could be that point guard. Or Troy [Hudson] or Marko. That was me searching. Now I’m more defined. It’s more set. Not saying those guys are not valuable – I tell them all the time, `You’re a hangnail away from being in the thick of things’ – and I think Troy, Justin [Reed], Eddie [Griffin], Mark Madsen, those guys have done a good job.

    Q. So you like all the things that go into being a head coach, rather than an assistant?
    A. I don’t enjoy being in the spotlight. If I could just be in the gym, in the locker room and the office and out there for games, I’d love it. No disrespect to [the media], but I love the basketball duties of coaching. I could sit in the gym and talk Xs and Os all day. I do miss the closeness that you get with the players as an assistant coach. The one-on-one work, spending time with the players in the summer.

    Q. Granted, an NBA coach who puts himself front and center can have problems. Then again, players need to know who the boss is. How do you balance that?
    A. All I can control is playing time. If a guy’s not doing what he’s supposed to do, then he won’t play. I don’t think this is a sledgehammer league. I don’t think you can just browbeat guys – there are way too many games. You have to have a system in place, the way you want to play, and you work on it. But to do it with whip and chain doesn’t work.

    Q. The Twin Cities seems to be a market that loves local connections. Yet you have none. Would you be more embraced if you had a Minnesota background?
    A. I haven’t thought about that. I know Minnesotans love Minnesota players and ex-players, which they should. That’s a great thing. But Timberwolves fans want to win. Which I do. Time and winning buys you that time to be embraced. And I think Minnesotans appreciate hard work.

    Q. How dicey did it get for you in December? There was one rumor circulating that you were within 48 hours of getting fired.
    A. That’s the process of coaching. You know going in, you don’t have a lot of time. You want it done yesterday. Every coach in this league knows the position we’re in. There’s no running from it. Forty-eight hours, huh? You just want to make sure you can get it done in the amount of time you’re given.

    Q. Some coaches, as a way of surviving, cater to their best players. Since Kevin Garnett is the key guy here, how do you relate to him?
    A. Kevin Garnett stands for winning. He wants to be coached, he wants the right information. If he makes a mistake, he knows it before you tell him. Let’s put it this way: I don’t know a head coach in this league who doesn’t have an open line of communication with his star player. Coaching Kevin, will we have disagreements? Yes. But both of you are about the same thing and that’s winning. I don’t have an ego as far as taking the credit. If Kevin sees something out there that works, let’s look at it. You’ve got to have a give-and-take.

    Q. How do you let off steam?
    A. I love working out. Going to movies. I think coaches need to make sure they stay physically fit: Work out. Eat right. Get their rest. I try at least to work out.

    Q. Was the clamor over a possible Allen Iverson trade a distraction?
    A. Actually, we had a stretch of games there where we played well. If it affects your team, yes, you’d rather not go through it. But speculation is part of the business. Fans are going to say what they say. You guys have a job to do to report things.

    Q. Last question: Were there any days this season when you were reluctant to buy green bananas?
    A. No, no. I don’t think in those terms. I just think, what can I do today to turn it around? If today’s work or tonight’s game doesn’t get it done, they can walk in tomorrow and say, `Hey, time’s up.’ If you worry about what tomorrow is going to bring, you’re not taking care of business today. I’ll always be a coach. Somewhere, whether it’s college, high school, overseas or somewhere. But I promise you I do not sit around and worry about the guillotine. That’s when you die a slow death.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 05-25-2011 at 10:28 AM.

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  13. #10
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    I see now, too, that Casey also previously worked as an assistant for both Nate McMillan and also George Karl.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    A lot about him sounds good, except the weird lineups part. I just have a hard time picking any one over Vogel.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    IMO, Frank deserves the job over any candidate who is not clearly more accomplished & experienced. I don't doubt that Casey is an excellent candidate; I'd just much rather Larry show loyalty to someone who clearly has demonstrated great potential to grow and mature as a coach ... just as the team has shown great potential to grow and mature. Give them two years to do it together.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Yeah, I've had enough weird lineups in the past several years to last me a lifetime. That and the Kentucky thing bother me, but other than that he'd probably be pretty good.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Yeah but do you want Rick Vogel or Rick Casey

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    Why are we writing off Brian Shaw and Rick Adelman so soon? Particularly Shaw...I wouldn't blame him if he torched Staples Center to the ground.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor S View Post
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    Why are we writing off Brian Shaw and Rick Adelman so soon? Particularly Shaw...I wouldn't blame him if he torched Staples Center to the ground.
    I'm not necessarily writing them off. Either of them, or someone else for that matter, could be our next coach.

    But IMO the most likely candidates are Vogel and Casey.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    I'd guess Rick Carlise and Bird are talking and Casey has a legit chance. I know I've read where he is highly respected throughout the league. I think you are okay either way.

    I think either way you have a fresh voice and the players will respond. This isn't a difficult group to coach, as comprised.

    I think 90% of NBA coaching anymore is

    1.) the players buying in,
    2.) having the flexibility to maximize/tailor the talent you have on a team
    3.) managing personalities
    I think most coaches at this level understand the game Xs and Os enough.

    Look Obrien knows basketball, I've heard him talk often. He just didn't have any or the 3 aforementioned things, by the end. Never #2.

    I don't know anything about the coach in Detroit, but I do know he doesn't #1 or #3 there, the soft skill things.

    If you are a contender, maybe a guru tactician (Carlise vs young coaches left in the playoffs) is the difference in a long playoff run, but in general, you need a guy who can manage the players.
    Last edited by Speed; 05-25-2011 at 11:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think 90% of NBA coaching anymore is the players buying in, having the flexibility to maximize/tailor the talent you have on a team and managing personalities, I think most coaches at this level understand the game Xs and Os enough.

    I would argue, however that in order to have your players buy in you have to be really good with the X's and O's. late in games when the vcoach calls a certain plays do the players believe in what the coach is calling. That takes a lot more than just good personal skills. Do the players respect your work ethic do they respect you motives

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    I simply choose the guy who has already implanted a familiarity with our core players and made a positive impact on them.Frank had a winning record as an interim coach and that says something given that it's his first time to be the main guy in the coaching staff. If we're choosing between two inexperienced head coaches, then it's Frank Vogel for me.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    I like Casey's resume, but the Kentucky thing is just a deal breaker IMO. Any other team it probably wouldn't be an issue, but this is Indiana. Not only do we pride ourselves on our college basketball, we pride ourselves on clean college basketball. Look at how ape**** people went over the hiring of Sampson, let alone what happened after. IMO, what he did is very minor compared to what we all know happens out there, but years later people still want to put him in front of a firing squad for besmirching IU's good name.

    Yes, the pros are completely different. But hiring a guy heavily involved in one of the greatest college basketball scandals of the last 25 years will not go over well at all with the college basketball fan, which makes up a good part of the casual fan base. Add in him replacing the feel-good story of Vogel, and while it's not exactly a PR nightmare like we've seen this decade, it will do real damage to the goodwill the Pacers have built up the last few months.
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I would argue, however that in order to have your players buy in you have to be really good with the X's and O's. late in games when the vcoach calls a certain plays do the players believe in what the coach is calling. That takes a lot more than just good personal skills. Do the players respect your work ethic do they respect you motives
    Great conversation yesterday between Dakich and Rick Bucher from ESPN. Dan said he thought it was ridiculous that OKC didn't go to Kendrick Perkins in the post late in the 15 point lead that was lost game. Bucher completely discounted it, since Perkins doesn't get the ball in the post even in the game, except for being thrown a bone. Dan said it was a no brainer, not so much cuz Perkins was great in the post, but cuz the team was frazzled/unsure/rattled, whatever you want to call it and they needed direction. Bucher said it is more important that the team/players buys into what you are doing. Bucher said if you call Perkins number in crunch time with the offensive talent on that team, you'd lose the group, as a coach. (Making your point).

    Although I think its intertwined.

    So I'd agree, you can't be a "bad" Xs and Os guy and keep your team onboard, but my ascertian is there are very few bad Xs and Os guys at this level. However, you can be a great Xs and Os guy and it not work, if your guys don't buy in to begin with.

    I'd also use the Phil Jackson and the triangle as an example. The triangle isn't a revolutionary basketball concept that is just awesome. It worked for the Bulls team and the Lakers teams with and without Shaq because they all bought in.

    Now, Phil was smart enough to put the ball in MJ and Kobe's hands in crunch time. But again, who wouldn't.

    I hope this makes sense.

  29. #22
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Great conversation yesterday between Dakich and Rick Bucher from ESPN. Dan said he thought it was ridiculous that OKC didn't go to Kendrick Perkins in the post late in the 15 point lead that was lost game. Bucher completely discounted it, since Perkins doesn't get the ball in the post even in the game, except for being thrown a bone. Dan said it was a no brainer, not so much cuz Perkins was great in the post, but cuz the team was frazzled/unsure/rattled, whatever you want to call it and they needed direction. Bucher said it is more important that the team/players buys into what you are doing. Bucher said if you call Perkins number in crunch time with the offensive talent on that team, you'd lose the group, as a coach. (Making your point).

    Although I think its intertwined.

    So I'd agree, you can't be a "bad" Xs and Os guy and keep your team onboard, but my ascertian is there are very few bad Xs and Os guys at this level. However, you can be a great Xs and Os guy and it not work, if your guys don't buy in to begin with.

    I'd also use the Phil Jackson and the triangle as an example. The triangle isn't a revolutionary basketball concept that is just awesome. It worked for the Bulls team and the Lakers teams with and without Shaq because they all bought in.

    Now, Phil was smart enough to put the ball in MJ and Kobe's hands in crunch time. But again, who wouldn't.

    I hope this makes sense.

    I was listening also. Very entertaining on several levels.

    On Casey's problems at Kentucky, I could not care any less. This is the NBA. But if it will be a negative on the Pacers franchise, however unfair that might be, then I suppose it is an issue

  30. #23
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Dwane Casey just seems like a very bland choice or decision as a coach. I'd prefer that we'd either swing for the fences w/ a big name, (such as Mike Brown, who is gone now, Rick Adelman, or try to bring back a Jerry Sloan or Larry Brown) or just bring Vogel back with stronger assistants and better locker room influences.

  31. #24
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    Casey. Easily

  32. #25
    @TRouse32 thatch3232's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel, or Dwane Casey?

    I like the idea of bringing in a guy that has had a lot of success with his previous teams, and has good experience, so he can take this young team to the next level. Rick Adelman seems to be that guy.

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