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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

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  • #61
    Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

    My guess is they negotiate down his current contract and factor in a buyout clause for next season in exchange.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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    • #62
      Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

      Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
      Thats why i said toxic because they hold his rights til 2014-2015. I didn't know his team is in debt. But would what the NBA is allowed to offer them even close to being attractive to his team? Another euro league team could do what happened with Rubio right?
      Obviously, Valanciunas would have to pay a chunk of it out of his own salary.
      They are trying to negotiate a deal where buyout size depends on where Valanciunas is drafted. The higher he's drafted, the higher his salary, the more they get. That's why I think it will be in paper by draft day. The team is interested in him going high.

      Another issue (reportedly) is that the team wants the cash right away, they don't want to wait for Valanciunas paychecks. So it makes it more complicated, some sort of loan would have to be involved.

      Another Euroleague team could buy him, sure. But I doubt it. Rubio was a special case, he was basically a national hero in a country with the richest basketball league. Valanciunas isn't a complete player, he doesn't have the hype in the rich leagues - Spain/Italy/Greece/Russia. So I'd doubt someone offers millions for a chance to develop him.

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      • #63
        Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

        Originally posted by Kstat View Post
        My guess is they negotiate down his current contract and factor in a buyout clause for next season in exchange.
        Well his reported salary this year was 80k euros (~110k $), so it probably isn't an option.

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        • #64
          Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

          Originally posted by Kstat View Post
          I'm good with just about anybody not named Tristan Thompson at #8....Valanciunas I'd be willing to wait a year for.
          Now I'm curious... what don't you like about Tristan Thompson? Athletic big, not very skilled, a bit of a project. To be honest that could describe some of the other prospects too, like Valanciunas or Biyombo. If those two are taken before #8, wouldn't you consider Thompson then?

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          • #65
            Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

            Originally posted by ballism View Post
            Obviously, Valanciunas would have to pay a chunk of it out of his own salary.
            They are trying to negotiate a deal where buyout size depends on where Valanciunas is drafted. The higher he's drafted, the higher his salary, the more they get. That's why I think it will be in paper by draft day. The team is interested in him going high.

            Another issue (reportedly) is that the team wants the cash right away, they don't want to wait for Valanciunas paychecks. So it makes it more complicated, some sort of loan would have to be involved.

            Another Euroleague team could buy him, sure. But I doubt it. Rubio was a special case, he was basically a national hero in a country with the richest basketball league. Valanciunas isn't a complete player, he doesn't have the hype in the rich leagues - Spain/Italy/Greece/Russia. So I'd doubt someone offers millions for a chance to develop him.
            So is Valanciunas really willing to play in the NBA for free? Because the way I read the Rubio situation was he would of had to pay all of his rookie salary for 3 years to his former team. Or is Valanciunas's not that bad how big would his buy out be?

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            • #66
              Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

              Originally posted by wintermute View Post
              Now I'm curious... what don't you like about Tristan Thompson? Athletic big, not very skilled, a bit of a project. To be honest that could describe some of the other prospects too, like Valanciunas or Biyombo. If those two are taken before #8, wouldn't you consider Thompson then?
              There are about 10 players in this draft I'd want over Thompson, and since we're picking 8th....

              Biyombo and Thompson have similar skill sets, but the major difference is Biyombo has a great motor and Thompson too often plays like he doesn't care. It also helps he's a little bigger, faster and stronger.

              As for Valanciunas, he's got more skill to his game than either of the other two, and he's gaining ground defensively. Also, I like his intensity level as well.

              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
              NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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              • #67
                Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                So is Valanciunas really willing to play in the NBA for free? Because the way I read the Rubio situation was he would of had to pay all of his rookie salary for 3 years to his former team. Or is Valanciunas's not that bad how big would his buy out be?
                Noone plays for free. I don't think he'll have to. I think his team will agree to a much lower buyout price than his rookie salary. This is a different situation.

                Again, the difference with Rubio is that, one, Badalona (Rubio's team) was a rich team. Not rich enough to refuse 7 mil for Rubio, but they weren't going broke.
                Second, Rubio was a very hot commodity in a rich country - Wolves, Barcelona, Madrid Real were all fighting for him and raising the price, so Badalona could drive a hard bargain.
                And then Rubio's contract had a clear buyout clause as far as I remember - 6 or 7 mil mil $. So Badalona basically told everyone - pay up what's on paper or go away. And they got nearly full amount in the end.

                Now Valanciunas situation is different. His team is nearly broke. They had their home arena arrested (wrong term?) for debts earlier this season. There's no buyout in the contract, but they need the money, and they made no secret they are willing to grant a buyout for a price. They don't have the leverage that Rubio's team had.

                So unless a giant Euroleague team comes in and raises the buyout price to Rubio levels (seems unlikely), it seems there's got to be a semi-sane buyout sooner rather than later.

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                • #68
                  Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                  I thought NBA teams could only offer 500,000 USD to buyout a player and that the rest of buyout has to come from the players side which is one of the big reasons Rubio stayed.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                    Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post
                    I thought NBA teams could only offer 500,000 USD to buyout a player and that the rest of buyout has to come from the players side which is one of the big reasons Rubio stayed.
                    Yes.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                      Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                      my only thing is we already have that 6-8th rotation guy in Tyler. I want an upgrade and that cant be had in this draft.
                      Yeah....that's the sad part....for the next season or two..we already have a whole bunch of 6th to 8th rotational guys on our roster and it's likely that at 15...that is what we will be left with choosing.

                      But for the same reasons that you mention as to why we wouldn't pickup Fariad over Jimmer ( cuz we have Hansbrough )....the same reason can be used to justify not picking up Jimmer ( cuz we have PG and/or Inferno ).

                      But I guess that IF PG is ready to move out of the Backup rotation to the starting lineup...then I guess I'm okay with drafting Jimmer if needed ( I look at him more as a Scoring Wing Player as opposed to a PG ).
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                        Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                        Agreed. Remember, the Cavs have to win a title before Lebron does.

                        So he's got about 3 weeks.
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                          I really like Marshon Brooks. He has excellent size; 6'5", 200 lb. and an enormous 7'1" wingspan. 25/7/3 in the Big East.

                          2011 NBA Mock Draft: Is Marshon Brooks Really a Top 20 Pick? | Bleacher Report

                          Yes, it's Bleacher Report, but it cites Chad Ford and Tim Grover, the trainer for both Brooks and Kobe:

                          Originally posted by Ryan Rudnansky
                          Chad Ford of ESPN got some rather extraordinary quotes from NBA GM's regarding Brooks.

                          Said one NBA GM:

                          "If he was two years younger or if his team had won more games, he'd be a lottery pick. But as far as NBA scorers go, there aren't any guards in this draft that can get his own shot at the NBA level like him."

                          Key word: any.

                          That includes Connecticut's Kemba Walker.

                          Want another quote sure to rattle your brain?

                          "There's a little bit of Kobe in him, isn't there?"

                          That's Brooks' trainer, Tim Grover, who just so happens to train Bryant, as well.
                          Here's his 52 point (20-28 shooting) explosion against Notre Dame. You can definitely see where the Kobe comparisons come from...



                          The knock against him is that he's older (a decrepit 22), his team wasn't that good (15-17) and referred to himself in the third-person during pre-draft interviews, bringing up character concerns . If that's the best his doubters can do, then I like him even more.
                          Last edited by Jared Sullinger; 05-25-2011, 05:32 PM.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                            Imagine us getting Marshon Brooks AND OJ Mayo.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                              Originally posted by MyFavMartin View Post
                              Imagine us getting Marshon Brooks AND OJ Mayo.
                              I'll take that Brooks burger with no Mayo please...

                              Brooks will go a lot earlier than when he is projected right now, just like george shot up boards last year so will brooks.

                              Th kid has a lot of game and can really score... I just haven't seen his defense, but I am sure that will be a point of emphasis in pre draft workouts...

                              I wouldn't mind, especially if we could turn Granger into the #2 pick and have Cleveland pass on Kyrie and grab him at 2'

                              I would be okay with Kyrie/Brooks/George/4/Hibbert as a young group of players.

                              maybe we can grab Perry Jones next draft if he learns how to play the 4, lol
                              Why so SERIOUS

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                              • #75
                                Re: Chad Ford Mock Draft 3.0

                                I really get tired of the worn out, hacky "Indiana loves those white bread players" jokes that always seem to make it in to national rumor articles. So god damned tired and unfunny.
                                __________________________________________________ ___________________

                                Admittedly, I've never seen Reggie Jackson play, or even heard of him until draft coverage started, but every time I read something about him I'm like "how in the world do you NOT draft this dude?"

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