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Thread: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

  1. #1
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    ... because I know I've been sort of regarding him that way for awhile. I'm mean... he's old. 38 is usually beyond productive years for a PG.

    But look at his career stats:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/429/jason-kidd

    His "decline" is very slow. He's still a productive PG at 38. His scoring is down a lil this year, but his assists are still 8+/game. He's never been generally fast or athletic, just crafty, in the Mark Jackson mold. So I guess it just makes sense that this guy keeps getting older than dirt... and still keeps producing.

    I've always been a fan of Kidd's, even back in college. It's just fun to go look at a guy who most people don't really give much thought to anymore and see that he's defying the odds.

    I like the Mavs this year. I think Dirk and Kidd and Carlisle and Marion are deserving. Terry has always been a baller, too.

    Just random thoughts about the Mavs. After last night's incredible comeback win, I think I've found the team I'm rooting for to win it all.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    He a better shooter than he has ever been. but he isn't as good as when he was leading the Nets to back to back NBA Finals appearances

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Oh, I wouldn't argue that point at all, his prime was back with the Nets, but my point is, he's still not doing a half bad job at 38. And his shooting is down this year (.360s), but he's never been the world's best shooter. He had shooting years like this when he was younger.

    You look at his career stats and his stats this year at 38 don't look *that* much different than his entire career.

    It's just fun for me to think about. He's old... slow... can't jump. You compare him to new guys like Rose and Westbrook who are 500% more athletic, and he's out there just getting the job done for a championship contender and holding his own. He's defying logic, really. I like those stories.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 05-24-2011 at 11:48 AM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Hard to believe he's 38 I could see him retiring after this if they win it all.. if there's a lockout I can't imagine him coming back anyways.. might as well go out on a high note. I remember many thought Cuban was moronic to trade Devin Harris for Jason Kidd.

    I'm rooting for Dallas because I'd like Dirk to win a ring as I said in another thread wouldn't it be funny if the guy who went through numerous playoff failures and stayed with the same team through it all won it all?

    Maybe make some of these "superteams" think twice.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Jason Kidd is amazing. It's really a shame he wasn't a good shooter until the later part of his career. He can still defend too. Very smart player.

    I think it was on Mike & Mike this morning where they said that Kidd has put on a clinic on how to play the point guard position. I couldn't agree more.

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    And Kidd is just such a crafty defender too. He has been frustrating people all postseason.

    I think it would be cool for him to win a title in Dallas, the place where his career began.

    He should have won the 02 MVP when he transformed the Nets from cellar-dwellers to championship contenders.

    I can't believe he has been in the league since 1994. Christ, what a long career. That's one less year than Reggie played.

    This Mavs team has really grown on me. I wanted the Thunder to win last night because I wanted to see a 2-2 series. But this Mavs team of vets is so easy to root for. I really hope they take down the Heat.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Kidd's most elite skill, passing, also happens to be the basketball skill least dependent on athleticism. If he stays healthy, he could probably play well past 40 and just be a purely half court PG who can hit a spot up 3 and send the ball through an opening the size of a doughnut hole.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Hard to believe he's 38 I could see him retiring after this if they win it all.. if there's a lockout I can't imagine him coming back anyways.. might as well go out on a high note. I remember many thought Cuban was moronic to trade Devin Harris for Jason Kidd.

    I'm rooting for Dallas because I'd like Dirk to win a ring as I said in another thread wouldn't it be funny if the guy who went through numerous playoff failures and stayed with the same team through it all won it all?

    Maybe make some of these "superteams" think twice.
    Dallas isn't one of these "superteams"?

    Jason Kidd? Shawn Marion? Tyson Chandler? Brendan Haywood? Peja Stojakovic?
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Dallas isn't one of these "superteams"?

    Jason Kidd? Shawn Marion? Tyson Chandler? Brendan Haywood? Peja Stojakovic?
    Nah.... I think he's referring to a Big 3 team like Boston or Miami, or even LA. I wouldn't consider Marion/Kidd/Chandler/et all to be "super" like DWade and Bosh and LeBron. The Mavs are more like the Bulls with 1 workhorse superstar and a good supporting cast... except the Mavs don't put 80% of their offense through Dirk like the Bulls do with Rose. I think that's ultimately Chicago's fatal flaw... been saying it since before the playoffs started.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 05-24-2011 at 12:46 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    This is why I rank Kidd as the best PG of his generation, with Steve Nash at 2nd. Those guys are plainly the best in the business as PGs in the pros. They have these elite capabilities that most PGs right now don't have:

    - Passing. Not those fancy passes or those acrobatic effects before the pass. They just have the perfect timing to pass the ball to somebody for easy shots.

    - Floor General and Leadership as a PG. They are good at leading their team in setting up the plays that coaches wanted them to execute. You just see perfect execution of plays when they are on the floor orchestrating the offense.

    - Court Vision. I have seen tons of their highlights. And you see something in common: they are giving the ball to players who have higher chances of shooting the ball, whether it's an entry pass to a big man, an alley-oop to a cutting wing, or to an open spot-up shooter.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Kidd has always played the game "on the ground" but not sure I would have classified him as un-athletic. In his prime he was one of the fastest in the game with the ball in his hands, quick enough laterally to defend smaller match-ups and strong enough to defend larger ones.

    On everything else I agree. It is amazing what he can accomplish at 38 and at a position that is not kind to aging players.

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  18. #12

    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Kidd and Nash are a dying bread. Most of the PGs playing now are just SGs with great handles. Probably why Chris Paul, imo, is still the best PG in the game. He's the only younger point that plays like those guys.

    edit; i suppose williams fits that role too

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    But this Mavs team of vets is so easy to root for. I really hope they take down the Heat.
    Agreed.

    I have always liked the Mavs. I would LOVE to see this group win the title this year.

    First you have Mark Cuban. Love him or hate him you have to give him credit for how he turned around that franchise.

    Then you have Rick Carlise. I am still a big fan of his and if there is any coach in the league who deserves to win a ring, who hasn't, it's Rick.

    Their players have all overcome a lot. Dirk and Jason Terry have been there a while. Dirk was often called "soft" and a poor performer in the clutch which is not the case.

    Then you have guys like Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, and Peja. All have been on some really good teams that made deep runs in the playoffs but just couldn't win it all.

    I find Tyson Chandler to be a likeable player to watch too.

    There really isn't anything about this Mavs team I don't like. It would be awesome to see them win it all. David Stern handing Mark Cuban the Larry O'Brien trophy would be priceless!

  20. #14

    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Kidd is a HOF right? I guess Reggie didn't make it so I'm not sure.
    Here we come lottery?

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Didn't realize that Kidd was 38...wow.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Watching Kidd is precisely the reason why I keep mentioning a player like Hinrich. A lot of the young guys on here biatch about Hinrich's age. But, I think they need to face it, Hinrich is a mere middle-ager. And I'd take him in a heartbeat if Atlanta wanted to get rid of him.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Kidd is a basketball player. He could play until hes 50

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Nah.... I think he's referring to a Big 3 team like Boston or Miami, or even LA. I wouldn't consider Marion/Kidd/Chandler/et all to be "super" like DWade and Bosh and LeBron. The Mavs are more like the Bulls with 1 workhorse superstar and a good supporting cast... except the Mavs don't put 80% of their offense through Dirk like the Bulls do with Rose. I think that's ultimately Chicago's fatal flaw... been saying it since before the playoffs started.


    Yep but I'm a she and I don't think L.A. is a superteam well this version of the Lakers.

    Kobe is the superstar.. Pau is an all star

    Who's the third?

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    Member A.B.Hollywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Yep but I'm a she and I don't think L.A. is a superteam well this version of the Lakers.

    Kobe is the superstar.. Pau is an all star

    Who's the third?
    Pau is better than Bosh and Bosh is considered one of their Big 3 and a superstar in many circles.

    Pau IMO is a superstar as well. Some could argue that Lamar Odom fits that mold but I agree that comparatively they don't have *quite* the big 3 firepower that Miami or Boston (which I think have a big 4 actually) have.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Yep but I'm a she and I don't think L.A. is a superteam well this version of the Lakers.

    Kobe is the superstar.. Pau is an all star

    Who's the third?
    Sorry, she.

    LA is almost there, I agree that their 3rd is a little less clear which is why I preceeded LA with an "even", to indicate that it could be argued. But they still have a couple guys you could almost put in that potential All-Star group like Odom or Artest or Bynum. They are extremely talented. They have a top 2 and then a good "almost-top 3" after that. Bynum himself is a load.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 05-24-2011 at 02:34 PM.
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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    I agree with the general statement in the original post, but to say that Kidd has never been fast is just completely false. When Kidd came into the league he was one of the fastest players in the NBA. He could get down court WHILE DRIBBLING faster than most players on a dead sprint without the ball.
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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    Kidd is a HOF right? I guess Reggie didn't make it so I'm not sure.
    No doubt about it. Jason Kidd has had a much better NBA career.

    1994-95 Rookie of the Year
    10 All-Star appearances
    9-time All Defensive Team member
    5-time All NBA 1st Team member + 1 2nd Team Award
    2nd All-Time in Total Assists
    3rd All-Time in Total Steals
    3rd All-Time in Total 3-pointers made
    2 - NBA Finals appearances

    *edit - I also forgot to mention that Kidd has lead the league in assists 5 seasons and has finished in the top 10 ALL 18 seasons of his career!
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 05-24-2011 at 03:36 PM.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    I agree with the general statement in the original post, but to say that Kidd has never been fast is just completely false. When Kidd came into the league he was one of the fastest players in the NBA. He could get down court WHILE DRIBBLING faster than most players on a dead sprint without the ball.
    Ehhh, I don't recall Kidd having DRose speed or Westbrook's athleticism. He obviously would've been faster than he is now, but I don't think Kidd's strength ever included blazing speed or hops. He has always been a terrific passer, floor leader, and had great vision.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    No doubt about it. Jason Kidd has had a much better NBA career.

    1994-95 Rookie of the Year
    10 All-Star appearances
    9-time All Defensive Team member
    5-time All NBA 1st Team member + 1 2nd Team Award
    2nd All-Time in Total Assists
    3rd All-Time in Total Steals
    3rd All-Time in Total 3-pointers made
    2 - NBA Finals appearances

    *edit - I also forgot to mention that Kidd has lead the league in assists 5 seasons and has finished in the top 10 ALL 18 seasons of his career!
    I think Kidd is the best PG I've ever seen. I never got to see Magic or anyone before his time, but Kidd has just been a lights-out point guard for his entire career. I sincerely hope he wins a ring this season and that he's able to keep playing at this high level.

    It's crazy that the second best player on arguably the best team in the playoffs so far is a 38-year-old PG with bad knees who looked used up during most of the season.

    I predict that if the Mavs take the title home this year, Kidd is riding off into the sunset.

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    Default Re: You probly thought Jason Kidd was declining

    He has done an amazing job adjusting his game to his aging. He is no longer the greatest transition PG in the game like he was with New Jersey, but he has become one of the best in the halfcourt, and of course added the three to make himself more dangerous in the half court. He deserves a ring badly.

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