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Thread: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

  1. #51
    Womens Wrestling Champion El Pacero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    All I know is I don't want any guy who could even think he's the best player in the league, regardless if he's even close to that or not. Now is not the time.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by El Pacero View Post
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    All I know is I don't want any guy who could even think he's the best player in the league, regardless if he's even close to that or not. Now is not the time.
    Wait, are you saying if a guy is close to the best player in the league and knows it you don't want him?

  4. #53
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    As much as I want Josh Smith, I don't think right now is the right time to give up Roy to get him. We are not going to get Nene, Chandler, or M.Gasol. Denver won't let Nene walk and he loves Denver. Cuban is letting Chandler go anywhere and Memphis is on an up swing and will there core together.
    The only good center I see available is Kaman. I see a more likley senerio of an LAC-ATL trade. When healthy Kaman is a much more proven(even all-star) center.
    I would also like to see if Roy can improve this summer and come back strong and be more consistent.
    Last edited by pacers74; 05-22-2011 at 05:17 AM.

  5. #54
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Lance caused a short term meltdown of a team that was on a roll that also ended as soon as he stopped playing. In the Rockets game I watched a ball roll by 3 players who didn't even bother to bend over to pick it up. It was the laziest effort I've ever seen.

    Atlanta beat a better team record wise in the 1st round, and then played the best team in the league to a 6 game series. Sounds like they don't melt down when Josh Smith plays. Sounds to me like if their coach lost the team, it was because the rest of the players agreed with Josh Smith. You can roll your eyes all you want, but I'll take a guy who doesn't agree with a coach but is a potential All-Star and All Defensive team player over a guy who annoys the players around him, and gets in trouble with the law while contributing nothing on the court.

    These two aren't even in the same ballpark.

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  7. #55
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    I don't believe Josh Smith will ever buy into "the Secret", so I'd pass on him, as I'm willing to bet Bird will as well. Hibbert on the other hand will be a perfect complementary team player.

    The Book of Basketball is a hell of a book.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Its amazing that every top pf we talk about on this board that we may actually be able to get results in we dont want this guy because he has bad character.

    How did that bad character turn out for Memphis this year?

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  11. #57
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I personally want no part of Smith. He is super talented, but I don't think he is very bright and a potential locker room issue waiting to happen.
    Why is there ALWAYS someone who mentions how a person is in the locker room?

  12. #58
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    I think the biggest problem with Josh Smith in ATL was the fact they had 2 athletic PF's (Smith & Horford)

    Horford didn't want to play center so that causes stress in the locker room. His dad was talking in the media wanting atl to get a real Center so Al could slide over to PF all the time.

    Smith is not a SF IMO. When he played strictly PF he was on the NBA all defensive team


    http://www.basketballprospectus.com/...articleid=1071


    Josh Smith, Atlanta: There's an argument to be made that Smith belongs atop the group of power forwards. In terms of defensive WARP, that's where he would go. Smith's defensive versatility was neatly encapsulated by Hollinger, who noted that he is the tallest player in the league's top 10 in steals and the shortest in the top 10 in blocks. Smith isn't quite as good as an individual defender and the Hawks' middle-of-the-road Defensive Rating also holds him back. Still, the difference between Garnett and Smith is negligible, and you could even throw in a sixth reasonable power forward candidate in Oklahoma City's Nick Collison, who leads the NBA in drawing charges per hoopdata.com and has a phenomenal +7.9 net defensive plus-minus.
    CENTER

  13. #59
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    http://www.examiner.com/atlanta-hawk...ve-second-team

    Josh Smith became the first Hawk since 1998-99 (Dikembe Mutombo and Mookie Blaylock) and eighth player in Atlanta team history to earn All-Defensive team honors. He was named to the second team.

    The second team nomination is somewhat of a shock, considering the Smith finished second in the Defensive Player of the Year Award voting on April 20.

    Nevertheless, Smith had an outstanding season in which he became the youngest player in NBA history to reach 1,000 career blocks, while also reaching the 500 career steals mark.

    Smith, whose game is underappreciated in many circles, was the only player in the league to average at least 15 points, 8 rebounds and 4 assists per game.

    At 6’9, Smith was the tallest player in the top 12 in steals and the shortest in the top 12 in blocks.

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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Lance caused a short term meltdown of a team that was on a roll that also ended as soon as he stopped playing. In the Rockets game I watched a ball roll by 3 players who didn't even bother to bend over to pick it up. It was the laziest effort I've ever seen.

    Atlanta beat a better team record wise in the 1st round, and then played the best team in the league to a 6 game series. Sounds like they don't melt down when Josh Smith plays. Sounds to me like if their coach lost the team, it was because the rest of the players agreed with Josh Smith. You can roll your eyes all you want, but I'll take a guy who doesn't agree with a coach but is a potential All-Star and All Defensive team player over a guy who annoys the players around him, and gets in trouble with the law while contributing nothing on the court.

    These two aren't even in the same ballpark.
    Of course they are not in the same ball park, one is a guy who is a problem in the lockerroom and makes less than a mil and the other one is a problem in the lockeroom but makes close to 15mil, huge difference.

  16. #61
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    As much as I want Josh Smith, I don't think right now is the right time to give up Roy to get him. We are not going to get Nene, Chandler, or M.Gasol. Denver won't let Nene walk and he loves Denver. Cuban is letting Chandler go anywhere and Memphis is on an up swing and will there core together.
    The only good center I see available is Kaman. I see a more likley senerio of an LAC-ATL trade. When healthy Kaman is a much more proven(even all-star) center.
    I would also like to see if Roy can improve this summer and come back strong and be more consistent.
    Easy fix. Get another team involved. Get a team that needs some peices or could help us ex.memphis.

    Indy in:
    Smith
    Mayo

    Indy out:
    Rush
    1st

    Memphis in:
    Rush
    Crawford

    Memphis out:
    Mayo
    Haddai

    Atl in:
    Haddai
    1st

    ATL out:
    J smooth
    Crawford

    Just a trade off the head. Gives atl their starting C and a draftpick to fill Crawfords bench scoring.

    Indy gets allstar PF defensive presence. And starting SG to take load off danny

    Memphis gets much needed 3 point shooting, perimeter defender who isn't a offensive liability. And bench scorer who can replace Mayo.

    Note. Didn't know crawford was a fa. Maybe replace him with marvin (could've had paul/dwill) williams.
    Grab a star in Mayo and then wait til 12' for Kevin Love=Championship!!!

    Wow....just....Wow
    Quote Originally Posted by itzryan07 View Post
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    what makes Granger better than Mayo?

  17. #62
    Funk Seoul Brother Frostwolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Of course they are not in the same ball park, one is a guy who is a problem in the lockerroom and makes less than a mil and the other one is a problem in the lockeroom but makes close to 15mil, huge difference.
    way to strawman his argument. your post achieved nothing. you're saying that there would be no benefit to removing lance stephenson and adding josh smith to this roster? that they're even, apart from salaries?

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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Of course they are not in the same ball park, one is a guy who is a problem in the lockerroom and makes less than a mil and the other one is a problem in the lockeroom but makes close to 15mil, huge difference.
    You cannot simply equate Lance's issues with Smith's issues.

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  21. #64
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by rwill784 View Post
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    Easy fix. Get another team involved. Get a team that needs some peices or could help us ex.memphis.

    Indy in:
    Smith
    Mayo

    Indy out:
    Rush
    1st

    Memphis in:
    Rush
    Crawford

    Memphis out:
    Mayo
    Haddai

    Atl in:
    Haddai
    1st

    ATL out:
    J smooth
    Crawford

    Just a trade off the head. Gives atl their starting C and a draftpick to fill Crawfords bench scoring.

    Indy gets allstar PF defensive presence. And starting SG to take load off danny

    Memphis gets much needed 3 point shooting, perimeter defender who isn't a offensive liability. And bench scorer who can replace Mayo.

    Note. Didn't know crawford was a fa. Maybe replace him with marvin (could've had paul/dwill) williams.

    Wow, we make out like bandits. That would be a dream trade for us, but not for Atlanta. They get screwed pretty bad. We would have to give up Granger, Roy, or George to get a deal like that back.

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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    You cannot simply equate Lance's issues with Smith's issues.
    Other than the off court issues, it looks to me like JS team issues are worse than Lance's, call me crazy but a guy that makes 15mil and is a pain in the a$$ is worse than having an immature bench player that only makes 800k.

  23. #66
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Other than the off court issues, it looks to me like JS team issues are worse than Lance's, call me crazy but a guy that makes 15mil and is a pain in the a$$ is worse than having an immature bench player that only makes 800k.

    I agree, you can cut 800k. You just can't cut 15mil.

  24. #67
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by El Pacero View Post
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    All I know is I don't want any guy who could even think he's the best player in the league, regardless if he's even close to that or not. Now is not the time.
    WTF does this mean? So if Lebron or D Wade wanted to come to Indy, you'd say no??
    Grab a star in Mayo and then wait til 12' for Kevin Love=Championship!!!

    Wow....just....Wow
    Quote Originally Posted by itzryan07 View Post
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    what makes Granger better than Mayo?

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  26. #68
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by pacers74 View Post
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    Wow, we make out like bandits. That would be a dream trade for us, but not for Atlanta. They get screwed pretty bad. We would have to give up Granger, Roy, or George to get a deal like that back.
    Yeah, but, and there's a huge but. ATL has crippled their franchise for the future by signing Joe Johnson to that dumb contract. (which imo Johnson will prove nextyear why he got paid so much, he was gimp almost all season) They need Josh to leave period, which IMHO decreases his value a bit. Once a team knows you have to rid yourself of a player who isn't a superstar, the asking price can not be as high as you'd like it.

    ATL needs a center, and so does like 15 other teams in the league. They either have to draft one or hope to shed salary in oder to make a run at Kaman, Jordan, Dally, and Gasol. And we can give them a means of shedding salary, not that trade was just a bs one I made up really fast but I doubt we have to give them Roy or Danny to get Josh.
    Grab a star in Mayo and then wait til 12' for Kevin Love=Championship!!!

    Wow....just....Wow
    Quote Originally Posted by itzryan07 View Post
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    what makes Granger better than Mayo?

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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    I would be happy to add Josh Smith to our roster but not at the cost of Roy. I agree with the thought that Smith is more of a 3/4 and I'd much rather sign a player that's 4/5. If we're lucky enough to bring in another top center, I still don't want to move Roy. I want to see if they can play together or at least give us the best center combo in the league. Our first priority needs to be pursuing free agents like Nene or Gasol. Bring in some talent with our cap space before looking for a trade. If we're patient I think we'll find some lopsided trades in our favor after the new cba is in effect. I don't want to trade a key player prior to that unless the trade is so one sided that we can't turn it down. Trading Roy for Blake Griffin our D Howard would qualify. Trading Roy or Danny for Josh Smith doesn't fall into that category.

  28. #70

    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    I am not totally opposed to seeing Josh Smith here but I am not totally sold on him either.

    The guy's salary is not a huge deal. Hoopeshype states that it lasts until the 12/13 season and he will make around $26 million over the next two seasons. The worry would be the salary cap situation after the new CBA and if you can afford to keep Darren, Paul, Tyler, and Roy.

    I did say Roy because I want no part of trading him. I see him as a big part of the future. You don't give up on him now. Starting centers are VERY hard to come by and its not like Smith is a Kevin Garnett level PF. The Pacers need an above average center at EVERY position and trading Roy just to get Josh likely leaves the Pacers having at best an average starting center.

    To get Josh I think it would have to be a3 way trade where someone has a high salary big man they want to dump for cap space. It has happened before.

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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Josh Smith is a great defender and a hard person to guard on the other end. He may be a problem in the lockerroom, but I would rather have a loud vocal leader than a big who gets depressed and has his feelings hurt too much. I would rather have Scola, if we could pry him away, but if we need toughness at the 4, Josh could be the man. See posts #58 and #59 above (by esabyrn333)....

  30. #72
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by rwill784 View Post
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    WTF does this mean? So if Lebron or D Wade wanted to come to Indy, you'd say no??
    i think what he's saying is that big egos, especially unjustifiably big egos, are never good for a team.

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  32. #73
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by rwill784 View Post
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    Easy fix. Get another team involved. Get a team that needs some peices or could help us ex.memphis.

    Indy in:
    Smith
    Mayo

    Indy out:
    Rush
    1st

    Memphis in:
    Rush
    Crawford

    Memphis out:
    Mayo
    Haddai

    Atl in:
    Haddai
    1st

    ATL out:
    J smooth
    Crawford

    Just a trade off the head. Gives atl their starting C and a draftpick to fill Crawfords bench scoring.

    Indy gets allstar PF defensive presence. And starting SG to take load off danny

    Memphis gets much needed 3 point shooting, perimeter defender who isn't a offensive liability. And bench scorer who can replace Mayo.

    Note. Didn't know crawford was a fa. Maybe replace him with marvin (could've had paul/dwill) williams.
    Atlanta trades Smith and gets Haddadi (did he even play last year?) and a mid-late pick? They aren't looking for a random center, they're looking for a starting center...
    They can do much, MUCH better than that.
    Getting a third team involved is nice, but the third team will still want something useful in return...

  33. #74
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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    why in the world does ATL do that 3-way trade?

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    Default Re: Jeff Schultz Hawks and Josh Smith may have had enough of each other

    A Hibbert for Smith deal would be perfectly fair. Similar per-minute production, yet one's a 7'2" center on a rookie deal, whereas the other's a slightly undersized PF making $12.9M per over the next two seasons.

    Myself, I'm not even sure I'd do Roy straight up for Josh Smith.

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