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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
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Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Trade now or wait

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  • Trade now or wait

    We can make a trade now, but after the CBA expires we are stuck with all of our cap space and will have to sit on it until a deal is worked out.

    Thought #1. Now is the time for us to try and do a deal. If this CBA ends in a lockout we might not be able to get anything done.

    Thought #2. Wait it out and hope the new deal works out better for us and teams have to dump salary and we make it like bandits.

    I would have to make a deal now if the right one came along.
    39
    Trade now, we don't want to miss out on a deal.
    48.72%
    19
    Wait it out, the new CBA will make our cap space worth even more
    51.28%
    20

  • #2
    Re: Trade now or wait

    I voted to wait. In spite of potential salary rollbacks and amnesty waived players, I still see any kind of low hard cap a something that will add leverage and value to our cap space. Very few teams would be helped enough by these things to put them under the cap and I think some teams will be put in a postition where they can't afford to offer fair value to their current restricted free agents.
    There are exceptions to this however if we're looking at an offer that's too good to turn down and it doesn't hurt our cap space.
    Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Trade now or wait

      all depends on what is offered.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Trade now or wait

        Assuming that any trade we make would be favorable, I like Larry's orientation to trade now ... which then clarifies our strategy for the FA market when the time comes.


        "He’s no shrinking violet when it comes to that kind of stuff."

        - Rick Carlisle on how Kevin Pritchard responds to needed roster changes.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Trade now or wait

          Assuming the trade would be done before the new CBA that would be interesting, because we would be signing 2 top 5 picks with a new cba and possibly new contract requirements for those two picks.. just something to throw in there
          Why so SERIOUS

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Trade now or wait

            If we can get a deal like the one that is rumored right now, take it. But I wouldn't trade our young guys (Hibbert, Tyler, George).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Trade now or wait

              Trade now or wait? Totally irrelevant.

              The Pacers will continue inquiring about other players, just as other teams will inquire regarding the Pacers' players. If something is suggested that would result in an improvement to our roster that is a good deal, then the Pacers will probably jump at it... and it doesn't matter if it is before or after a new CBA becomes law.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Trade now or wait

                Whatever the new CBA is, I have a feeling it's not going to force teams to shed salaries this season. It's probably also going to have an "Allan Houston" clause that allows teams to get rid of a bad contract or two. My guess is that our cap space will be less of an asset after the new CBA, so trade away.
                "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                - Salman Rushdie

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Trade now or wait

                  I voted for the wait until the CBA is settled, then deal.

                  That doesn't mean not make a deal now if it is offered, but it would have to be a lopsided deal. If the CBA has a hard cap of anything less than $60M, there will be plenty of teams trying to cut salary, and lots of good players on the market. IT will be a buyers market for teams with cap space.

                  The lakers have $90M cap number next year with only 10 guys. Almost $60M of that is Kobe, Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum. At least one of those guys will be on the market. Probably both Gasol and Bynum if they keep Kobe.

                  While LAL is the worst case, lots of teams are in the same kind of fix.

                  ATL has 8 guys and a $66M cap number. They can cut Marvin Williams, but they still have to get 6 vet min contracts to fill out the roster. That keeps them at about the same cap number. They are still going to have to trade one or two of their good guys unless they can find a taker for Joe Johnson's contract.

                  BOS has 8 guys and a $73M cap number
                  CHI has 9 guys and a $62M cap number.
                  CLE has 10 guys and a $59M cap number. They can cut Baron Davis and save $13M, so they are probably OK, but just barely.
                  DAL has 8 guys and a $60M cap number. But that does not count Caron Butler and Tyson Chandler.
                  MIA has 11 guys and a $67M cap number.
                  NYK have 8 guys and a $60M cap number.
                  ORL has 10 guys and a $78M cap number. They can save $19 by cutting Gilbert Arenas, so they are probably ok.
                  PHI has 8 guys and a $55M cap number. But that doesn't include Thad Young.
                  POR has 11 guys and a $67M cap number. But that doesn't include Andre Miller or Greg Oden.
                  SAS have 8 guys and a $70M cap number.
                  UTH has 8 guys and a $60M cap number.

                  Not all my numbers are exactly correct, but my point is . . . after the CBA is settled, the salary cap will be much lower. and some good players will be available. Not waiting until then seems silly, absent a really really good deal right now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Trade now or wait

                    Originally posted by xIndyFan;
                    but my point is . . . after the CBA is settled, the salary cap will be much lower. and some good players will be available. Not waiting until then seems silly, absent a really really good deal right now.
                    This. And it just makes sense to wait and see who will be cut from teams. In addition to that, we'll be able to offer them less money, as will other teams, but we'll be able to offer just enough more that we'll achieve easy top bids.
                    witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

                    Originally posted by Day-V
                    In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
                    Originally posted by Slick Pinkham
                    Our arena, their arena, Rucker park, it just doesn't matter. We're bigger, longer, younger, faster, and hungrier.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Trade now or wait

                      Originally posted by xIndyFan View Post
                      I voted for the wait until the CBA is settled, then deal.

                      That doesn't mean not make a deal now if it is offered, but it would have to be a lopsided deal. If the CBA has a hard cap of anything less than $60M, there will be plenty of teams trying to cut salary, and lots of good players on the market. IT will be a buyers market for teams with cap space.

                      The lakers have $90M cap number next year with only 10 guys. Almost $60M of that is Kobe, Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum. At least one of those guys will be on the market. Probably both Gasol and Bynum if they keep Kobe.

                      While LAL is the worst case, lots of teams are in the same kind of fix.

                      ATL has 8 guys and a $66M cap number. They can cut Marvin Williams, but they still have to get 6 vet min contracts to fill out the roster. That keeps them at about the same cap number. They are still going to have to trade one or two of their good guys unless they can find a taker for Joe Johnson's contract.

                      BOS has 8 guys and a $73M cap number
                      CHI has 9 guys and a $62M cap number.
                      CLE has 10 guys and a $59M cap number. They can cut Baron Davis and save $13M, so they are probably OK, but just barely.
                      DAL has 8 guys and a $60M cap number. But that does not count Caron Butler and Tyson Chandler.
                      MIA has 11 guys and a $67M cap number.
                      NYK have 8 guys and a $60M cap number.
                      ORL has 10 guys and a $78M cap number. They can save $19 by cutting Gilbert Arenas, so they are probably ok.
                      PHI has 8 guys and a $55M cap number. But that doesn't include Thad Young.
                      POR has 11 guys and a $67M cap number. But that doesn't include Andre Miller or Greg Oden.
                      SAS have 8 guys and a $70M cap number.
                      UTH has 8 guys and a $60M cap number.

                      Not all my numbers are exactly correct, but my point is . . . after the CBA is settled, the salary cap will be much lower. and some good players will be available. Not waiting until then seems silly, absent a really really good deal right now.
                      Good job with the numbers, but players like Baron Davis, Marvin Williams, and Arenas can't be cut. Well, they could, but their salary would still count against the cap. Arenas still has three years on his deal, with a player option after next season...which he'll be picking up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Trade now or wait

                        Originally posted by CooperManning View Post
                        Good job with the numbers, but players like Baron Davis, Marvin Williams, and Arenas can't be cut. Well, they could, but their salary would still count against the cap. Arenas still has three years on his deal, with a player option after next season...which he'll be picking up.
                        Orlando really tied their hands with that Arenas deal. He may be the most overpaid player to ever step on the court lol. If I was Howard I'd be wanting out of that mess.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Trade now or wait

                          Originally posted by xIndyFan View Post
                          Not all my numbers are exactly correct, but my point is . . . after the CBA is settled, the salary cap will be much lower. and some good players will be available. Not waiting until then seems silly, absent a really really good deal right now.
                          If the salary cap becomes much lower, that also means we'll have much less salary cap space too. Obviously we won't know all the implications for sure until the final CBA is negotiated, but according to the initial proposals, the combination of salary rollbacks, amnesty, and low hard cap means that other teams get to keep their good players while the Pacers' cap space becomes devalued.

                          Originally posted by CooperManning View Post
                          Good job with the numbers, but players like Baron Davis, Marvin Williams, and Arenas can't be cut. Well, they could, but their salary would still count against the cap. Arenas still has three years on his deal, with a player option after next season...which he'll be picking up.
                          There's talk of an amnesty provision. The players who get amnestied will still get paid, but their contracts get taken off the cap. Furthermore the owners want to reduce guarantees on contracts, including existing contracts, so cutting players might end up cheaper than you'd think. Basically the owners are proposing a whole host of get-out-of-jail-free cards for teams that have made bad decisions. If these proposals pass, the Pacers who have toiled long and hard to clean up their payroll the old fashioned way won't even get the chance to benefit from their hard work.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Trade now or wait

                            I'm not hoping for this, but this thought crossed my mind.

                            1.) Stay the course, no big moves, let this current group get another year under their belts of development/increase market value.

                            2.) Miss the playoffs due to injuries with Danny being out a big chunk of the year.

                            3.) Win the lottery or a top 3 pick in a really really strong draft.

                            4a.) Invoke the Spurs plan (Duncan/Robinson year) Keep the top 3 pick as a franchise type player and now you have a developed young group, Danny Granger, & money for a big Free agent.

                            4b.) Invoke the Celtics Plan (Garnett for Al Jefferson/#5 for Ray Allen year) Trade the top 3 pick for player one of the big 3, trade some of your developed young players for player two of the big 3. Using your money available to make the moves happen for the big salaries you are taking on.

                            Sure its a huge reach, and again I don't hope for it, in any way.

                            However, this potentially puts you in contender status, by sacrificing one year.

                            Its not something you can "do", actually, but it could work out that way.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Trade now or wait

                              Originally posted by CooperManning View Post
                              Good job with the numbers, but players like Baron Davis, Marvin Williams, and Arenas can't be cut. Well, they could, but their salary would still count against the cap. Arenas still has three years on his deal, with a player option after next season...which he'll be picking up.
                              sorry for not making it clear. it appears the new CBA will have some kind of 'Allan Houton Rule'. Allowing teams to cut guys and not keep the salary on the books. those were the cuts i referred to.
                              Last edited by xIndyFan; 05-24-2011, 09:24 AM.

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