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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

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  • #31
    Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

    I don't think a one year deal is that big of a deal.

    He seems like a good pick (Vogel) and certainly earned the job. But at the same time he is pretty unproven and we don't want our players taking a step back (Like Granger did under JOB in these last couple of years)

    He proves himself, he gets a longer contract. He doesn't, we can let him go. I look at this as more of an extended audition.

    And I don't see the problem with it. It's not like this team can possibly do anything better than fifth seed next season, regardless of what coach. So testing the waters to see if we have a really good one, while having a safety net just in case he isn't, makes sense.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

      I'm not getting this. It isn't like a player, where you essentially sign him or let him go, so you sign him for a small amount/short contract and see what you've got.

      This is a coach, where you can sign him or sign someone you think is better. If we only think this coach is good enough to sign for a year to "see what we have", doesn't that mean there isn't a single one of the current other choices we think could be better than that?

      I mean, suppose you sign Vogel and the team implodes again next year. How does that affect the young guys, the fans, and the perception of Bird? Yes, I understand that a coach with a lot of experience isn't guaranteed to do better, but you have a much better body of work to base your expectations on.

      Understand that I'm OK with signing Frank, but I agree with UB - if you are so unsure of his ability that you only sign him for a year, then there is DEFINITELY a better coach for you out there - go get him.

      Now, if no one else will take the job, sign Vogel for a year - but what does that say?
      BillS

      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

        Originally posted by BillS View Post
        I'm not getting this. It isn't like a player, where you essentially sign him or let him go, so you sign him for a small amount/short contract and see what you've got.

        This is a coach, where you can sign him or sign someone you think is better. If we only think this coach is good enough to sign for a year to "see what we have", doesn't that mean there isn't a single one of the current other choices we think could be better than that?

        I mean, suppose you sign Vogel and the team implodes again next year. How does that affect the young guys, the fans, and the perception of Bird? Yes, I understand that a coach with a lot of experience isn't guaranteed to do better, but you have a much better body of work to base your expectations on.

        Understand that I'm OK with signing Frank, but I agree with UB - if you are so unsure of his ability that you only sign him for a year, then there is DEFINITELY a better coach for you out there - go get him.

        Now, if no one else will take the job, sign Vogel for a year - but what does that say?
        Because you can think Vogel is the correct guy for the job, but be unsure because of all the questions about his experience.

        All they are doing, is watching their butt.

        He does a good job next year, my guess is he gets a 3 year contract.

        I don't really see the big deal. A one year contract of a head coach isn't going to say anything to a bunch of players that like the coach and want him to be there.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

          A one year offer is something that I'd make if I wasn't serious about having him as a coach. That way not returning is his decision, not mine.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

            One year is good deal. It gives us an opportunity to make sure his 40-game record wasn't a fluke. If he does a good job with a "full" offseason and roster improvements, then we can easily resign him for longer. Coaches, unlike players, normally don't switch teams due to money. It's not like we're going to be in situation where we offer him $2MIL/YR and another team offer him $7MIL/YR.

            As a side note, I just don't see that many teams going offer him this season. No matter how you present the facts, Vogel IS a coach without that much experience.


            Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

              Anybody think Larry Bird would have accepted a one year deal for his first (and only) coaching contract? IIRC he had no record as a coach when the Pacers hired him to coach the team.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                Originally posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
                A one year deal could really backfire on us as well. Lets say he does sign a one year deal and then has this team take another step forward and we actually get the 5th or 6th seed or even win a series.
                If this happens he will get a multi-year extension before the playoffs start to ensure he doesn't go anywhere.
                A healthy man takes a crap every day. A smart man does it on company time.

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                • #38
                  Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                  Originally posted by HickeyS2000 View Post

                  The guy is young. You don't give a seriously inexperienced coach a long-term deal

                  Tell that to New Orleans! Monty Williams had no HC experience. He did fine, but I never had a doubt since he was my pick last year for the Pacers. AND I take him in a heartbeat over Vogel.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                    Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                    Tell that to New Orleans! Monty Williams had no HC experience. He did fine, but I never had a doubt since he was my pick last year for the Pacers. AND I take him in a heartbeat over Vogel.
                    And New Orleans also have Chris Paul. Not to bust your bubble...


                    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                      I don't think giving a coach (in this situation) a one year deal is the right thing to do. Larry and co. better make sure that whoever they hire they are comfortable with for the next 3 years or so.

                      Now is the time to get a coach for the next 3 years. There will almost always be up and coming assistants who deserve to be a head coach but if the Pacers want experience (and don't want to go with Vogel) you have Mike Brown and Rick Adelman available assuming either would be interested in the Pacers job. It terms of coachings who have proven themselves you won't find find those guys every year.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                        This seems pretty straight forward. Vogel did a pretty good job. But there were big question marks about his ability to control a team. The problems with players not getting to practice on time, not working hard and not taking practice seriously. These are evidently big red flags in Bird's mind. Giving Frank a year to prove himself and prove he can control a team is the result. This is like a geometry logic exercise. Frank will get a long term contract if and only if he shows he can control the team. Larry eveidently doesn't want to be a GM and part-time coach.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                          Just because it is tradition to give a new coach a 3 year deal does not make it the right thing to do. In fact to do something only based on tradition is going to be a bad idea more times than not. If anything is the right thing to do, don't even give him a contract based on years. Tell him, "This is your job as long as you perform up to expectations." Just like any normal job.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I don't read anything into this at all except good move all around. Give Vogel a full season to fully prove himself and avoid a longer than necessary deal if it ends up not working out for whatever reason... even if Bird does want Vogel to succeed and be the longterm coach, still a smart move.

                            As a coach you should probably be focusing on one season at a time anyways. Hopefully, if Vogel eventually gets a longer contract he'll make even more money because of how well he did in 2011-2012.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                              Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                              A one year offer is something that I'd make if I wasn't serious about having him as a coach.
                              Sure, unless you are banking on no other team hiring him as their head coach. I'm sure tons of other teams would love to have him as an assistant. Head coach? I'm pretty confident we are the only team he has a realistic chance at that position. Remember, 40 games as a HC, a couple as an assistant and a few as a video guy is not a strong resume considering the coaches available.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Vogel to only get 1 year contract?

                                Again, for the "only give him a year" advocates - there isn't a single other coach out there you have more confidence in than a coach that you aren't confident enough to give more than a one year deal to?

                                And you think if he turns out to be a coach not worth renewing a full season it has no repercussions at all, it's just an "oh, well, let's get another coach since we only invested a year" situation?

                                This just smacks of "well, we HAVE to hire Vogel, so let's only give him a year just in case."

                                Otherwise, what is it you are afraid will happen if he gets a 3-year contract, and why do you think it won't matter if it only happens for a year?
                                BillS

                                A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                                Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                                Comment

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