Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 65

Thread: AMNESTY

  1. #1
    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    4,762

    Default AMNESTY

    If an Amnesty Clause is approved, could that serve to add more available talent to this offseason? Not exactly sure how an Amesty works in terms of signing those players.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19808

    Dwight Howard to the Los Angeles Lakers? Chris Paul to the New York Knicks?
    Slow down.
    Here's the problem with those super trades. What incentive do the Orlando Magic and New Orleans Hornets (owned currently by the NBA itself) to make a deal before knowing the rules of the new, yet-to-be-written Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA)?
    It may be inevitable Howard and Paul relocate eventually, but why should their respective franchises assume inevitability when the new CBA may ensure the opposite?
    Rule changes could involve a hard cap, no Mid-Level Exception, no sign-and-trades, a non-mandatory franchise tag and who knows what else?
    Almost every minute rule in the CBA impacts player movement on some level. So far there isn't even an agreement to speak off. The NBA landscape may have a very different look once everything is hashed out.
    Expect a lockout July 1st which could last part or all of the summer. Lost games are not a given but certainly a possibility. A late start to the season may be more likely than a full year off. Will the league be ready for business on opening day? Hopefully.
    The new agreement is expected to have some variation of the "Allan Houston Amnesty," which in the current CBA allowed for a team to cut a player without that salary counting against the luxury tax. Ironically the New York Knicks used this one-time cost saver on Jerome Williams instead of Houston.
    The players still get paid which is why it's favorable to the union. The owners gain flexibility and save money. It's a win-win.
    Word is there may be another amnesty clause (even possibly two) in the new deal, with the money not only coming off the tax but the cap as well.
    Notice all the trade proposals flying around the internet and radio? The Lakers should take on the contract of Gilbert Arenas to entice the Magic to deal Howard?
    An amnesty clause would change that significantly.
    There's a good chance Arenas may be waived via amnesty before next season, allowing for the Magic to save roughly $6-$19.2 million in tax in the first year, depending on the tax threshold, total salary for Orlando and the new CBA.
    Obviously rules on tax may change completely but the current owners' proposal has the existing system gradually evolve to a hard cap, phasing out luxury tax altogether. It remains to be seen how a compromise is reached but the point is the same on Arenas.
    Suddenly the Magic, without Arenas, have just $57 million committed to next season. Technically there's still the payment to be made to Arenas, so it doesn't solve everything but it puts Orlando in a different position financially.
    Given the chance, the preference for the Magic is to rebuild a contender around Howard rather than dealing him.
    With so much up in the air, why would they deal him before July, prior to knowing full well what options they might have had?
    The Hornets aren't even in a difficult cap/tax position. They have to wait and see if David West opts out of the final year on his contract at $7.5 million. Given he's coming off of a severe knee injury, that's still up in the air.
    The pressure is to sign Paul to extension before he hits free agency. He may or may not but the answer won't be known before the new CBA is rolled out.
    Neither Howard nor Paul is applying Carmelo Anthony-like pressure to their teams and how long did it take for the Denver Nuggets to drag out that situation?
    Perhaps Orlando or New Orleans prefers to take the Utah Jazz/Deron Williams approach, deal before months of distraction and negotiation . . . but it's just short-sighted to do it before the new CBA.
    Maybe there's a Kwame Brown/Pau Gasol deal to be made and every GM with the interest and the capacity should do their due diligence . . . but honestly, save the pipe dreams until after the expected lockout is resolved.

    Then again the Grizzlies aren't looking so "foolish" these days any more.

    Amnesty-ville Horror
    It's not just the $62.4 million owed to Arenas by the Magic that may see an amnesty cut. Almost every team has some contact they regret:
    Atlanta Hawks: Marvin Williams makes $25 million over the next three years.
    Boston Celtics: Boston has done a fine job making sure they don't have any salaries on the books beyond next season save Rajon Rondo and Paul Pierce. If the Celtics believe their run is over, would Boston actually amnesty long-time star Paul Pierce?
    Probably not, but it could open up a tremendous amount of spending power in 2012. Perhaps more likely would be the one year left on Jermaine O'Neal's contract, but Boston may be a team that opts not to amnesty at all.
    Charlotte Bobcats: The obvious choice for the Bobcats would be DeSagana Diop and his two years for $14.3 million. Then again they could look to go in a different direction with Stephen Jackson and his two years, $19.3 million but obviously there's a big drop-off in production from Jackson to Diop.
    As with Pierce and Boston, it'd probably make more sense to look for a trade if it's time to move Jackson.
    If Charlotte has buyer's remorse on Tyrus Thomas, he is owed $33.4 million over the next four years.
    Chicago Bulls: Given that Chicago is about to start the Eastern Conference Finals, this is a team that has done well when it comes to constructing a team around Derrick Rose.
    Carlos Boozer hasn't quite lived up to expectations but he doesn't seem like an amnesty candidate. If there's anyone, perhaps it's C.J. Watson who is owed $3.4 million next season.
    Cleveland Cavaliers: The Cavs traded for Baron Davis midseason but that wasn't about Baron as much as it was about the L.A. Clippers first-round pick this June, unprotected. Given that Davis is owed $28.7 million over the next two, his stay in Cleveland may be short-lived.
    Dallas Mavericks: The Mavericks need to re-sign Tyson Chandler which would open the door to cutting backup center Brendan Haywood who is on the books for $45.4 million over the next five (although his finally year isn't fully guaranteed).
    Haywood can still produce so that wouldn't necessarily be an easy decision but it might be the inevitable one.


    Considering how much the Mavs have spent through the years, the franchise is otherwise in a good place with no true junk contracts.
    Denver Nuggets: Al Harrington made more sense when the team was looking to contend around Carmelo Anthony. His $27.7 million over the next four may not fit, even though his final two years are only 50% guaranteed.
    Chris "Birdman" Anderson is also on the books for $15.6 million over the next three but the fans still seem to love him in Denver.
    Detroit Pistons: The Pistons would most certainly get rid of Rip Hamilton's $25 million, of which $21.5 million is guaranteed. Investing in Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva haven't exactly paid dividends.
    Jason Maxiell's $10 million over two is superfluous as well.
    Golden State Warriors: The Warriors need to get out of Andris Biedrins' deal as soon as they can. His game is about as shaky as his free throw shooting. He's set to earn $9 million a year for the next three seasons.
    Houston Rockets: The Rockets don't have much to regret on their books. Hasheem Thabeet may never pan out. Is it worth $5.1 million next season to find out? How about Brad Miller's $4.8 million?
    Indiana Pacers: The Pacers could have used more than one amnesty the last few years but they've finally gotten to the point where their bad contracts are gone. James Posey for just one year ($7.6 million) would probably be the choice.
    Los Angeles Clippers: The Clippers are in good shape financially. If there's one guy they might cut, it'd be Ryan Gomes at $8 million over two seasons.
    Los Angeles Lakers: Luke Walton's 25-year contract (seemingly) is actually nearing its end but given that his role in the rotation had dropped significantly (with Coach Phil Jackson), the Lakers make jump at the chance to drop his $11.5 million remaining (two season).
    An argument can be made to drop Ron Artest's $21.8 million or Steve Blake's $12 million, both over three.
    Memphis Grizzlies: Things have certainly changed for the Grizzlies. Has O.J. Mayo turned a bad situation into possibly a long-term destination? Does Memphis need Rudy Gay?
    Gay is too valuable an asset to amnesty. Memphis may pass on it altogether.
    Miami HEAT: At the time, Mike Miller seemed like a great fit. Instead he hasn't and is still owed $24 million over the next four years.
    Milwaukee Bucks: Corey Maggette at $21.2 million over the next two. There's your amnesty.
    Then again, was Drew Gooden a good investment with $26.3 million due over the next four?
    Minnesota Timberwolves: The Wolves don't have a lot of money down long-term unless they want to park with serviceable point guard Luke Ridnour's $12 million over three, but that doesn't make a lot of sense given his level of production.
    Perhaps if the team isn't happy with Nikola Pekovic, Martell Webster or Jonny Flynn but amnesty just doesn't seem to make sense for Minnesota.
    New Jersey Nets: Travis Outlaw at $7 million a season for the next four can't seem like a great idea but that's the deal the Nets gave him. Do they want out?
    If not, the amnesty would probably be Johan Petro's $6.8 million over two.
    New Orleans Hornets: It would be a very bold move for the Hornets to dump Emeka Okafor who is due $40.5 million over the next three. Although he's not an All-Star, he's still a productive player at the center position.
    Jarrett Jack is solid at $10 million over the next two. Trevor Ariza played big in the playoffs with $21.8 million due over the next three. New Orleans may also be a team with no reason to use the amnesty.
    New York Knicks: Years of terrible contracts have come of the books. Now the worst might be Renaldo Balkman's $3.4 million over two.
    Oklahoma City Thunder: What's amazing about the Thunder is what they've been able to accomplish without breaking the bank. The only player who doesn't seem to fit would be Nate Robinson who is owed $4.5 million next season.
    Orlando Magic: While the obvious choice is Gilbert Arenas, it's not like Hedo Turkoglu has an attractive contract at $34.8 million over the next three. Given that Hedo's last year isn't fully guaranteed and Arenas makes almost twice as much, Gil looks like the no-brainer.
    Philadelphia 76ers: Elton Brand seemed like a bust in first year with the team but he's gotten healthy and productive. Instead Andres Nocioni is the odd man out with $6.7 million due next year (plus a team option for $7.5 million the following season).
    Phoenix Suns: Josh Childress. Period. $27 million due over the next four and he doesn't crack the rotation.
    Portland Trail Blazers: It's a crazy argument but if the team truly believes that Brandon Roy will not be healthy over the duration of his contract (four years left at $68.7 million), this is one way out of that. Hopefully it won't come to that and Roy can go on to a productive career.
    Otherwise the Blazers have invested in a solid roster that just needs to stay healthy.
    Sacramento Kings: Francisco Garcia has had some strong moments for the Kings and some completely invisible stretches. He has two more years guaranteed at $18.3 million along with a team option for another at $6.4 million.
    There's a chance that the rules won't allow a team under the cap to use the amnesty and Sacramento may not want to cut anyone with it anyway, given the chance.
    San Antonio Spurs: Would the Spurs cut Richard Jefferson after he opted out of a big year to take a lengthy - but cheaper per season deal? He's on hook to make $30.5 million over the next three but proved to be a much improved player in his second year with San Antonio.
    Toronto Raptors: The Raptors are heading into a much better place financially after years of spending through the Chris Bosh era. They tried to trade Jose Calderon at different times but at this one can they get a better player in given there's no other point on the roster?
    Calderon makes $20.3 million over the next two but he may be a player the Raptors need to keep. Perhaps Linas Kleiza but he can still be productive. The Raptors may not move on the amnesty at all.
    Utah Jazz: Raja Bell didn't give much in his first year with the club. It's not a lot but it may make sense to get out of his $6.7 million over two.
    Washington Wizards: The Wizards will look at Rashard Lewis who makes $21.1 million next year and is on the books for $22.7 the following season (albeit $11-17 million is guaranteed). If cut, Lewis would become a key free agent this summer for a playoff team in need of outside shooting.
    Some of the interesting players who could end up free agents: Rashard Lewis, Rip Hamilton, Marvin Williams, Baron Davis, Al Harrington, Andris Biedrins, Mike Miller, Corey Maggette, Nate Robinson, Gilbert Arenas, Andres Nocioni, etc.
    That's a lot of talent that could (somewhat unexpectedly) end up on the market. Ultimately teams will be active through the NBA Draft and up until the June 30th deadline. There's as good a chance as any for multiple trades but when it comes to a team dumping their franchise player on a maybe, that's going to have to wait until the new CBA is locked in . . . not out.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to QuickRelease For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,540

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Yeah...Posey would be "Reggie-d" this time around if there is Amnesty for this round of CBA negotiations.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,847
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Why couldnt of this happen 3 yrs ago that would make me mad if it happens.

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pacer4ever For This Useful Post:


  6. #4

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    The issue now is timing. Everyone will be on hold awaiting details on the new agreement. If we could count on a one-person amnesty, we still could pull off a draft-day trade. If we won't know by then, however, I'll be surprised if Larry pulls off a trade anyway without full knowledge of possibilities in the bigger picture.

  7. #5
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,043

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    The question is who would we like of all those players. I like Emeka Okafor.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Will Galen For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    582

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    This could definitely add a little intrigue to an otherwise underwhelming free agent class. I agree that out of the realistic names mentioned, Okafor is the most interesting for us.

  10. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In a Gym
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,847
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    if they became free agents another owner would just overpay and the cycle could keep going lol.

  11. #8
    Member pacergod2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,885
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    I think the amnesty provision would probably hurt us. It brings more players into the free agent market. We don't know how things will look after the CBA, but on the flipside there would be more free agents to go around. I just think the money that other teams would get would prevent us from getting a more marquee target. I would love for us to sign Wilson Chandler, Kenyon Martin, and Aaron Afflalo. Get McRoberts resigned. That's a lot of strength and athleticism. If we could get them on reasonable contracts, by saying to them, "we want all three of you (and McRoberts) and we have $25M to do it with." McRoberts $3.5M, Afflalo 6.0, Chandler 7.0, and Martin 9.5. Martin's would be for lesser years than the other three. I would sign the three kids to maximum length contracts. That takes up some space, but we get a lot of talent, toughness, and rebounding in return.

    Denver will probably decide to keep Nene happy. I could see them keeping Afflalo around. Felton and Lawson are redundant, but they will keep him around for the year because he is a good ball player and could be a great trade chip. I think the Nuggets will opt to keep Gallinari at SF and let Chandler walk. They have a deep front court and would have to make a decision on keeping Martin at a higher contract. I think the Nuggets are a prime candidate to not resign some of their free agents. If one of the three backout it gives you a little more ammo for the others and some cap space leftover.

    You could insert some other players you prefer, but I think this needs to be the sort of approach we take. I think Denver is weak in their position to keep their talent. I think an approach where we talk to a couple of guys to all come here together would be effective in this free agent climate. I am hoping for tighter restrictions, which gives us more spending power. The new CBA is a good excuse to pay guys less in a down free agent year. You just pray some idiot doesn't pay Eddy Curry $10M, even if he lost 100 pounds and all of a sudden loved the game. The amnesty provision would probably be a bad thing for us, but unfortunately I think Stern would think it was a great idea for the league.

  12. #9
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think the amnesty provision would probably hurt us. It brings more players into the free agent market.
    When you've got lots of money to spend, more choices is a good thing, not a bad thing.

    Amnesty might hurt our ability to make lopsided trades with teams over the cap, but it won't hurt us in the free agent market. Quite the reverse.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Anthem For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,917

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    The latest I've read is that the proposed hard cap would be 45 mil. Even with current salary rollbacks and a waived amnesty player, there would still be a lot of teams over that cap. We don't know how teams over the cap during the 2 year grace period will be allowed to operate as oposed to teams that are under it. A team like Memphis may not be allowed to use it's Bird rights on Gasol if they're over the cap, which they would be. Things like this could still force a lot of lopsided trades or sign and trades for cap space. I think the article is dead on in that we have to see how the details of the new cba play out before attempting to trade for anyone. Whatever advantage we give up to amnesty could be outweighed by gaining leverage in another area of the cba.

  15. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,009

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The latest I've read is that the proposed hard cap would be 45 mil. Even with current salary rollbacks and a waived amnesty player, there would still be a lot of teams over that cap. We don't know how teams over the cap during the 2 year grace period will be allowed to operate as oposed to teams that are under it. A team like Memphis may not be allowed to use it's Bird rights on Gasol if they're over the cap, which they would be. Things like this could still force a lot of lopsided trades or sign and trades for cap space. I think the article is dead on in that we have to see how the details of the new cba play out before attempting to trade for anyone. Whatever advantage we give up to amnesty could be outweighed by gaining leverage in another area of the cba.

    I don't know, but there is one thing I can assure you. It will be much higher than $45 million. The owners are always going to start low, while the players are going to start high ($70 million or possibly higher is my guess). My guess is it will end up somewhere between $55 million and $65 million.

    If it is a soft cap though I could see it stay at $45 million where the negotiations focus more around how soft of a soft cap it is. Like where the luxury tax begins, if there is a hard cap much higher, and exceptions.

  16. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,917

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't know, but there is one thing I can assure you. It will be much higher than $45 million. The owners are always going to start low, while the players are going to start high ($70 million or possibly higher is my guess). My guess is it will end up somewhere between $55 million and $65 million.

    If it is a soft cap though I could see it stay at $45 million where the negotiations focus more around how soft of a soft cap it is. Like where the luxury tax begins, if there is a hard cap much higher, and exceptions.
    I agree it's a pie in the sky request by the owners so they have room to negotiate up. I think we'll see something closer to a cap in the 56-58 mil range though, nothing as high as the current LT. Even at that a waived player won't get that many teams under the cap, and those who are over may not be allowed to sign long term contracts, excerise Bird rights, or use exceptions during the 2 yr. grace period. I don't think a team running a payroll in the range of LA will be allowed to continue with business as usual next season. We'll have added leverage over them with our cap space that we didn't have this year.

  17. #13
    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,110
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    I honestly feel that the Hawks would cut Joe Johnson if possible, he makes so much money its absurd, and Rudy Gay may not be far behind him out the door, especially if a hard cap is pretty low.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Cactus Jax For This Useful Post:


  19. #14
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,540

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    This time around they should name this the "Rashard Lewis" Amnesty clause. He is owed $21 mil next season....seriously WTF was wrong with the Magic when they signed him to that big of a contract?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CableKC For This Useful Post:


  21. #15
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,238

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    I posted this in another thread. This is the list of amnesty players from 2005

    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q18

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Coon
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Although the amnesty provision was informally referred to as the "Allan Houston provision," the Knicks chose not to use it on Houston. The actual list of players on whom the amnesty provision was used is (* = players who were previously waived): Derek Anderson (Blazers), Vin Baker* (Celtics), Troy Bell* (Grizzlies), Calvin Booth (Bucks), Doug Christie (Magic), Derrick Coleman* (Pistons), Howard Eisley* (Suns), Michael Finley (Mavericks), Brian Grant (Lakers), Fred Hoiberg (Timberwolves), Aaron McKie (76ers), Ron Mercer (Nets), Reggie Miller* (Pacers), Alonzo Mourning* (Raptors), Wesley Person* (Heat), Eddie Robinson* (Bulls), Clarence Weatherspoon (Rockets), Jerome Williams (Knicks). The Bobcats, Cavs, Clippers, Hawks, Hornets, Jazz, Kings, Nuggets, Sonics, Spurs, Warriors and Wizards did not utilize this provision.
    Note that the list is dominated by previously waived players, with most of the rest being injured/retiring players. Finley I think was the only impact player available from amnesty.

    I think teams are wary of waiving useful players no matter what their contracts are like. Amnesty doesn't mean the contract just goes away - the player still gets paid after all, it's just that the team gets more room to maneuver under the salary cap rules. So the list of free agents coming from the amnesty clause may not be as attractive as we hope.

    I'm not even sure that the Pacers would use the amnesty clause on Posey - we'd lose the use of his expiring contract in trade, AND we'd still have to pay him. Granted, we may find ourselves needing the extra cap space if we have a FA or trade target in the works. But otherwise it might not be worth it.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  23. #16
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,078
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    I think that if a team takes advantage of the Amensty they can not add another player cut under the Amensty rule. Or a team that that has signed a player cut under the rule ,and has not used the rule themselves, should not have that newly signed player count against the cap/luxury tax.

    No more rewarding the frivolous and the big markets for being frivolous.

  24. #17
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,525

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think teams are wary of waiving useful players no matter what their contracts are like. Amnesty doesn't mean the contract just goes away - the player still gets paid after all, it's just that the team gets more room to maneuver under the salary cap rules. So the list of free agents coming from the amnesty clause may not be as attractive as we hope.

    I'm not even sure that the Pacers would use the amnesty clause on Posey - we'd lose the use of his expiring contract in trade, AND we'd still have to pay him. Granted, we may find ourselves needing the extra cap space if we have a FA or trade target in the works. But otherwise it might not be worth it.
    Yes, I agree.

  25. #18
    Member yoadknux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Israel
    Age
    23
    Posts
    1,318

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    This isn't a positive, this is a negative.
    Firstly, we have no bad contracts, we also have no long contracts, so we do not gain the extra cap out of this.
    Secondly, our advantage this summer has been cap space... Now everyone will have some cap space, which means more competition over the not very good free agents available this summer.
    Thirdly, these players are all junk. Atlanta won't waive JJ, Memphis won't waive Gay, Philly won't waive Iggy. Players that get waived have 0% trade value, that's why they get waived and not traded. Most of these players are basically bench role players who will probably go to a contender for low salary. We do not need them.

    If this amnesty thing goes on... we're in trouble in my opinion.

  26. #19
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,078
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This isn't a positive, this is a negative.
    Firstly, we have no bad contracts, we also have no long contracts, so we do not gain the extra cap out of this.
    Secondly, our advantage this summer has been cap space... Now everyone will have some cap space, which means more competition over the not very good free agents available this summer.
    Thirdly, these players are all junk. Atlanta won't waive JJ, Memphis won't waive Gay, Philly won't waive Iggy. Players that get waived have 0% trade value, that's why they get waived and not traded. Most of these players are basically bench role players who will probably go to a contender for low salary. We do not need them.

    If this amnesty thing goes on... we're in trouble in my opinion.
    We don't know if the amensty covers amensty from a future luxury cap only, a current level luxury cap only, a future salary cap, or the current salary cap.

    If they lower the luxury and salary cap, and the amnesty is applicable towards both, our cap space loses value.

    If they lower the luxury and salary cap, and the amnesty is applicable to the luxury tax only, our cap space loses little value. But the market will change nonetheless.

    The league needs the smaller market teams, so the provisions in the next CBA need to account for the productivity of such teams.

    What we don't need is relief for the ones that can afford to make mistake after mistake. Relief for all, sure. But they need to make sure those who have cleaned up their act fiscally, are rewarded in proportion to the relief of the frivolous.

  27. #20
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,628

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    If the Pacers are under the cap, they might not even be able to use the amnesty provision. They would probably have to sign some players first and then use the provision to waive Posey or they may not even use it at all depending on what free agents show interest in signing with the Pacers.

    This could turn out to be a negative thing unless a team is able to use the Amnesty and only pay the player for that 1 season and the rest of their deal is retracted. I doubt the players will agree to something like that so it's unlikely that a team like Orlando or Washington would use the Amnesty on a player that they would have to continue paying at least a portion of their huge deal for 2-3 years.

    Rumor has it that they want to phase a hard cap into place over the next 3 seasons and have it cap at 70 million 3 years from now. Teams might not be in a hurry to trim salary this summer but in the follow summers.

    Ultimately, the guys that will probably be waived using an Amnesty provision will be injured and overpaid guys like Desagna Diop. IOW, guys the Pacers will have little interest in signing.
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 05-17-2011 at 09:39 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  28. #21
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,868

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Once again, we must not spend our money...just to spend it.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  29. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  30. #22
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,525

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Once again, we must not spend our money...just to spend it.
    Corey Magette, Drew Gooden, Charlie Villnueva, Ben Gordon, Travis Outlaw, all disagree with this philosphy.

  31. #23
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,628

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Corey Magette, Drew Gooden, Charlie Villnueva, Ben Gordon, Travis Outlaw, all disagree with this philosphy.
    This is exactly what scares me about free agency. I'm hoping that the Pacers don't make the same mistake and over pay for a marginal player like Detroit, Milwaukee, and NJ have recently.

    What's funny is that each of these players name came up in the article as being Amnesty victims.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  32. #24
    Get well PG! QuickRelease's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    4,762

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    If Brandon Roy is amnestied, or bought out, would you take a chance on him?

    http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/ore...s_brandon.html

    The $68 million question is apparently about to get a new answer. Which is only to say that the Trail Blazers Inc. brain trust wants to float a new notion for Brandon Roy.

    It's this: Retirement, old pal?

    I hope they duck when they ask him.

    A source familiar with the situation said Thursday that Portland figures it must deal with Roy's future if it's truly going to rejoin the league's contenders. Retirement for Roy is among the options they're considering.

    The Blazers know they hold the distinction of being the only team in the Western Conference that hasn't won a first-round playoff series in the past 10 years. So they're eager and acting with urgency.

    There are only three viable options when it comes to Roy's future: A) figure out where he fits and play him; B) set him free with the Amnesty Clause; or C) lure him into retirement.

    They see three options.

    I see only one.

    Roy told me on the day of his season exit interview that he'd spend the summer healing, getting stronger and resting his knees. He wondered what coming back healthier would mean. Also, he planned to do platelet-rich plasma therapy again this summer, hoping it would help his knees.

    It's worth giving the guy the offseason, and potentially a lockout, to see how his body responds. Sorry, but I can't forget the 18 points he scored in the fourth quarter of Game 4 during the Mavericks playoff series. They weren't accidental, and so blowing him up with the Amnesty Clause, or asking him to retire don't feel like wise decisions.

    The league's Amnesty Clause would set Roy free, as the organization once did with Derek Anderson. The Blazers would still pay Roy what they owe him over the next four seasons, but they wouldn't pay luxury tax on his salary. It could potentially save owner Paul Allen millions, but wouldn't necessarily result in salary-cap room unless a new collective bargaining agreement stipulated such.

    Retirement sounds lovely. I don't blame the Blazers for wondering about sending Roy to Boca Raton, Fla. (I'm thinking Darius Miles probably has a place there from when Portland attempted to send him there three years ago.) But it feels like a pipe dream.

    If Roy voluntarily retires, he forgoes his salary and can't return to the NBA for one season. I don't see that happening. But if the three-time All-Star were forced to retire for medical reasons (a league-appointed physician would have to rule Roy is medically unfit), there's an interesting loophole. With Roy medically retired, the Blazers could potentially get salary-cap relief after a one-year waiting period.

    I asked Rich Cho what they planned to do with Roy just 48 hours before the general manager was fired by Allen. He didn't answer, but he laughed nervously. I could feel him shaking his head at the mistake that the Vulcans made in negotiating a contract that had no insurance and no clauses for the possibility of injury despite Roy's chronic knee issues.

    You can't reasonably predict what the Blazers will do. There's a fracture between the smart, hard-working people who run the day-to-day operations at One Center Court and the wild-eyed schemers who call the shots from the circle around Allen.

    Me?

    I don't for a second believe that Roy will retire. I don't think he believes he's done, nor would any physician who examined him. Again, Game 4. Period. End of discussion. But I do believe that Roy's pride is the true wildcard.

    I still believe Roy can play at a high enough level to make keeping him worthwhile. I believe developing a new role for him is not only the best option, but also the only option. He'd be overpaid in each of the next four seasons, but at the very least they'd get something in return.

    But I don't think the Blazers view Roy as part of the plan, and given that they're married to him, they seem intent on trying to do something dramatic. And maybe, foolish.

    Roy won't want to be in Portland if he's not wanted. He could barely stomach the idea of seeing Patty Mills and Rudy Fernandez coming off the bench before him in Game 2 against Dallas. So, I'm thinking that if the Blazers really do want out they're going to have to tell Roy they don't want him around anymore.

    We're probably talking buyout now, not retirement. Roy would get a lump sum and the freedom to seek a new team, if he could find another soul willing to believe in him. Since Roy has four years remaining on his contract, any buyout amount would be divided by four and that number would count against the Blazers' salary cap moving forward.

    Have the Blazers turned gamblers? Are they really willing to give up on Roy while he's promising to come back even better? Could they really justify buying him out given Roy's output in Games 3 and 4 played the biggest role in saving Portland from a first-round sweep by the Mavericks?

    Answer those questions. Then, tell me how insulting the guy with the idea of retirement or a buyout helps this franchise move forward. Because the worst case here is to devalue Roy, and insult him to his face, then have him show up in camp, where you ask him to help you win games.

    Then again, this is Portland -- on a decade-long streak without a playoff series win.

    Maybe that really is the plan.


    --John Canzano
    twitter.com/johncanzanobft

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to QuickRelease For This Useful Post:


  34. #25
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: AMNESTY

    If he wants to backup Paul George, sure.

Similar Threads

  1. Details on latest cba proposal
    By Pacerized in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 05-24-2011, 08:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •