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Thread: Details on latest cba proposal

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    Here's another article with a little more info on the proposal.
    The $45 mil hard cap is a pie in the sky request IMO. The league has to ask for more then they want so it can appear that they've gave in when they negoiate the cap up to a higher amount. I like the way non-guaranteed contracts are proposed. I guess I wouldn't get along very well with Hunter.

    http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/stor...ard-salary-cap

    The details, spelled out in an April 26 memo issued by National Basketball Players Association Executive Director Billy Hunter, marks the league’s push for a major overhaul of the NBA’s economic model and emphasizes to players an aggressive bid to significantly slash costs and shorten contracts.

    The memo was sent to all NBA players and was dated just days prior to the league delivering to the union a new labor proposal, which a source said still included the $45 million hard cap but added a phase-in of the cap over a few years. Union president Derek Fisher publicly dismissed the latest proposal as too similar to the original proposal.
    The memo’s most eye-popping element is the league’s proposed $45 million hard cap, which cuts the current $58 million soft cap by nearly 25 percent.
    Hunter said in the memo that the NBA projects the $45 million hard cap number with a team’s total salary not to exceed the cap for any reason. The proposed hard cap as outlined by Hunter also would eliminate the current luxury tax provision, which penalizes teams with a dollar-for-dollar tax for the amount spent on player payroll exceeding the salary cap.
    The proposed hard cap is something the NBA has never had under collective bargaining, but it has become a critical element to owners. This initial proposal, and its steep cut in player cap space, demonstrates a strong commitment by the owners to dramatically curtail player payrolls while also supporting NBA Commissioner David Stern’s mantra of making the league more profitable.
    The inclusion of non-guaranteed player contracts, while a negotiating point, also represents a radical shift for players who have long benefited from guaranteed deals. Taken together, Hunter felt compelled to send out the missive.
    “The nature of the owners’ demands is so onerous that I feel it is imperative to reinforce the message of our recent team meetings with this letter,” Hunter wrote in the memo.
    The union confirmed the letter but refused to comment.
    Hunter also alerts players to the league’s effort to alter the structure of current contracts while detailing the owners’ proposal that no player contract be guaranteed for more than 50 percent for the first $8 million in salary and 25 percent for any amount above $8 million.
    “A system-wide change in the nature of guaranteed contracts ... not only would harm players’ economic interests individually, but it would also significantly change the culture of the league collectively,” Hunter wrote.
    The league also strikes directly at a team’s cap room to re-sign players at a maximum salary, known as the “Bird” exception, after hall of famer Larry Bird. Annual contract increases would be no greater than 3 percent for players meeting the Bird rule, down significantly from the current 10.5 percent increase, according to the memo. Owners also proposed that the Bird rule contract length be cut to four years from the current six-year length.
    Non-Bird players, or free agent players signing with new teams, would see their annual increases cut to 2 percent from the current 8 percent increase, with contract lengths cut to three years from the current five-year length.
    The memo also explains that players would be put into one of four categories under a hard cap system, namely, Category A: a minimum salary player; Category B: a rookie wage scale player; Category C: a maximum salary player; and Category D: a player “fighting for whatever room remains under the new hard salary cap after the three above categories are accounted for.”
    The union clearly is most concerned about the last category of players seeing major salary cuts. It uses, in the memo, as an example a player placed in the “D” category with his salary to be dictated by the team’s available salary cap. The player is signed through 2013 for a total salary exceeding $9 million. The memo shows that under the initial league proposal, the player’s salary would drop to a total just over $8 million, demonstrating how teams would be forced to cut salaries to remain under the hard cap.
    “Under the hard cap proposal, a team’s total salary may not exceed the proposed hard salary cap for any reason,” Hunter said in the memo. “The important part to keep in mind is that without exceptions provided in our current soft cap system, all players would have to squeeze tightly under a hard (and much lower) cap number.”
    Hunter and Stern have met in the past few weeks as the June 30 deadline of the current collective-bargaining agreement approaches. But as talks intensify, Hunter used the memo to stress to the players the growing threat of a lockout and the league’s firm hope to roll back salaries.
    “Only by making it a point to prepare and educate yourself about the CBA negotiations and the pending lockout will you be able to best protect your own interests and the interests of the players that will follow,” Hunter wrote to the players.


    Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/stor...#ixzz1MZ5TJA6l

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    That hard cap level is ridiculously low IMO. I'm guessing that is a starting point like you said. I would think it would have to be somewhere near the $53M-$56 range for the players to buy in.

    I do like the non-guaranteed contract proposal though. Of course the players don't like it, but they know that it's a problem that needs fixed. It will only benefit the players in the end because who wants to have a Jerome James on thier team that keeps that team from being able to go out and sign someone that could actually play.
    A healthy man takes a crap every day. A smart man does it on company time.

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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    Agreed that it's likely just to wind up with an acceptable higher number later. No way does it end up a $45m hard cap.

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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    What are the possibilties of a 45M cap?

    Anything after that luxury tax? And a hard cap at 58M?

    This would allow teams to sign their own players up until a point. So the Hawks would lose out on Horford if the sign Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, and Joe Johnson to bloated contracts.

    It would spread the talent and require teams to focus on role players more. A farm system would benefit from this as well.

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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    What are the possibilties of a 45M cap?

    Anything after that luxury tax? And a hard cap at 58M?

    This would allow teams to sign their own players up until a point. So the Hawks would lose out on Horford if the sign Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, and Joe Johnson to bloated contracts.

    It would spread the talent and require teams to focus on role players more. A farm system would benefit from this as well.
    not sure if it will be $45M and $58M, but i do think it will be something like this. it makes too much sense. it gives both the players and the owners a win in the negotiations.

    The current salary cap of $58M is based on 51% of the BRI. A salary cap of $10M below and a hard cap of $10M with luxury tax in between just seems to be a good compromise.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    Some reasons to hope that a lockout can be avoided. Henry Abbott thinks that the NBA and its players' union might be sprinting to negotiate a new CBA before the next NFL lockout ruling.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post?id=29279

    CBA talks marching to an NFL schedule
    May, 19, 2011
    By Henry Abbott
    ESPN.com

    The heads of the NBA and the Players Association:
    * Are meeting face-to-face roughly every week, and have scheduled two full days of talks for early June.
    * Have been careful not to leak the contents of these latest talks.
    * Say that they realize "time is short."
    * Have not been trashing each other in any way in the press.

    Everyone is on their best behavior, in other words.

    What's driving that? Is it simply that the NBA is going strong, and the current deal is set to end soon, on June 30?

    Or is there something more?

    There is one more thing, it turns out, and that thing is football, and the hundreds of millions it could cost one or both sides in the NBA talks. In short, the NFL's messy legal dispute holds not only the potential to give NBA or its players tremendous leverage, but also the potential to destabilize, and randomize, the talks in ways that could get very expensive and messy for both parties.

    And the only way the NBA and its players can minimize the influence of the NFL labor fight is to make a deal quickly.

    To understand that better, some thoughts about how the NFL is affecting the NBA right now:

    Testing the players' "nuclear option"


    The NFL and its players are using the courts to discover the real current value of the "nuclear option" for players in both leagues: Attacking the league's anti-trust exemption in the courts, through decertification of the union. The next opinion will come in a matter of weeks, but if both sides dig in, a final ruling could be at the end of a long, expensive battle, potentially before the Supreme Court.

    At the end of all that, if the courts take away the players' "nuclear option" that will stiffen NBA owners' spines in dealing with players. On the other hand, should the legal battle take a turn to damage the NFL owners -- and there are variosu ways that might happen -- players in both leagues might find themselves in the power seats.

    One insider says a resolution of this legal issue would swing NBA negotiations to the tune of $200 million in annual revenues. In other words, a win for NFL owners would strengthen NBA owners' position such that they could demand, hypothetically, $400 million in annual concessions from players instead of $200 million.

    Whether that number is high or low, the reality is that there's a ton of money at stake which is, awkwardly for all parties, out of the hands of everybody in basketball.

    Legal fees and lost revenue become factors

    There will be a hearing before the three-judge panel of the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on June 3. Some number of weeks after that -- the court has promised something "well before the scheduled [September] beginning of the 2011 [NFL] season" -- the court will hand down an opinion.

    After that, all kinds of hell could potentially break loose. Experts agree the 8th Circuit has sent strong signals it will take an owner-friendly position. But then what? The players could mount an effort to take the case to the Supreme Court. The anti-trust battle could carry on for years at tremendous cost to both sides.

    A true court showdown over either league's anti-trust exemption would likely take years. Legal fees alone, one source estimates, could approach nine-figures. In the NBA, that's a big percentage of what the union and league are fighting over anyway.

    The costs of missing games are almost impossible to estimate. The NBA says it is losing money by operating as is -- so closing could in theory come with savings.

    However, the NBA does have more than $4 billion in revenue, much of which would go away without games. People who own and operate stadiums can't stand empty seats, and don't forget that the NBA makes a ton of money from corporate sponsorships of everything from stadiums to stanchions -- that pipeline slows considerably without games.

    The wheel of fortune

    David Stern and Billy Hunter enjoy the respect of their constituents. They both have some ability to control the negotiation process, and to chart a course to a place from which they can declare victory and solidify their own leadership positions.

    It's not easy, but they have done it together before, by hammering out all these little issues, painstakingly, in conference rooms, over endless long meetings.

    That's what's underway right now.

    The whole darned thing, however, is turned on its ear by having these NFL proceedings roll on in the background. As Stern and Hunter talk, the ground tips and shifts under their very feet, beyond their control. A loser today becomes a winner tomorrow, based on insight from a judges and lawyers in far-off rooms, sorting through the particulars of another league entirely.

    Imagine if Stern or Hunter scoffs at a deal on a Thursday, only to have something happen in the NFL on Friday that guarantees his side won't get an offer that good again. Whoops.

    If you crave control (and what leader doesn't!) this is no way to negotiate. At any moment, either leader could be made to look exceedingly foolish.

    One easy way out

    The twists and turns of the NFL legalities will affect the NBA talks, and there's nothing anybody can do about it, except ... sprint.

    The one way the NBA and its players can determine their own destiny is to get a deal done before anything else happens in the NFL case. That's how Hunter and Stern avoid the randomizing effects of future NFL rulings.

    The end of June marks both the end of the NBA's current collective bargaining agreement, and about the time the next ruling is expected in the NFL case.

    "Clearly the most recent ruling in the Eighth Circuit favors NFL ownership," says NBA deputy commissioner and CBA point man Adam Silver. "Both sides are very aware of what's happened in the NFL and the disruption to their business caused by the work stoppage, and I think I can speak for both the owners and the union in that we want to avoid at all costs entering into any type of work stoppage or certainly a lockout. And so we're determined to try to make progress between now and the end of June."

    "Let's focus all our attentions on a negotiated resolution," Silver adds, "and that's what we're doing right now."

    By racing to the finish line, the league would seem to be passing up a chance to really stick it to the players. Imagine NFL owners do win a stunning court victory. Wouldn't it make sense for the NBA to wait and see if that happens? It's less appealing when you consider that the NFL owners could lose. Less appealing still when you consider that following suit would introduce delays that cost games and money, legal fees galore and the chance that a judge would do things differently in an NBA case.

    And even after all that, the league would still have to hammer out a new CBA in talks with the union, the likes of which they are already having. It's unappealing and risky, even if does contain the chance, for both sides, of ending in a big win.

    "We're determined to avoid the course that the NFL and its union has taken," says Silver, "and we've said from the beginning that regardless of who wins or loses a particular motion, whether at the district court or appellate court level, ultimately the resolution will come through negotiations."

    "I'd like to think," says Silver, "it would be irrational on both sides not to achieve a negotiated solution."

    Notably, Commissioner David Stern did not support Silver on that last point, saying things do sometimes require the involvement of courts. But nevertheless, the commissioner bangs the drum of diplomacy.

    "In negotiations like this, whether you ultimately can or cannot bridge the gap, you know in the shortterm, you know eventually you're going to bridge the gap because there will be a settlement eventually and an agreement," explains Stern.

    In other words, no matter what courts anywhere do, with the NFL or the NBA, ultimately the players and the league will have to sit down and negotiate agreement on every point. The only alternative to that is that the league does shuts down.

    So long as negotiating is the preferred approach, doing so quickly has a lot to recommend it to both sides.
    It's pretty good analysis by Abbott, though maybe it boils down to just wishful thinking. On the other hand, it is a good sign that both sides are not spouting rhetoric anymore - seems to indicate that serious negotiations are going on. And certainly the statements by Silver and Stern are a lot less hardline than they were last year.

    Maybe there is reason to hope for a quick resolution after all.

  7. #57
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    So I guess my last post was horribly over optimistic. Woj at Yahoo is reporting that the players' union just filed an unfair labor practice complaint with the NLRB. Probably won't amount to anything according to Woj, but certainly indicates that negotiations aren't going well. Apparently team execs and agents are now resigned to a coming lockout. Oh well, time to find a new hobby I guess.

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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    What's the current soft cap set at? Is it somewhere around $56M or so? I would think that the thing to do would be eliminating exceptions altogether and setting a hard cap at about $60M, with a minimum requirement of $50M. That narrow salary range would really promote a level playing field if you ask me.

    I would also let every team cut a contract from their cap altogether (the Hawks just nodded approvingly) as long as they still paid the player (the Hawks just drank poison).

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    When figuring teams potential cap room next season, you'll need to figure in an amnesty provision. I'll be shocked if there's not one in the new CBA.

    You could call it the Gilbert Arenas provision or the Rashard Lewis provision. Both will be waived using this. Other candidates include Baron Davis, Richard Hamilton, Travis Outlaw, Josh Childress, Nate Robinson, James Posey, Andres Nocioni, and Luke Walton. But the biggest name, and the most surprising name to many people, will be Brandon Roy. I don't see any way the Blazers can justify keeping him with his contract, his knees, and the backup options they have on the roster (Wallace, Batum, Matthews, and Fernandez).
    Greg Oden?

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    Default Re: Details on latest cba proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    Greg Oden?
    I don't understand the question, but Oden is a free agent this offseason. He isn't eligible to be waived, nor would he need to be.

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