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Thread: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    So wait, this whole line of speculation is based on Bucher's chats?

    Granted, things might have changed in between the chats, but you'd think a journalist would acknowledge that. I'm seriously wondering where Bucher is hearing these things.
    I've been one of many speculating Mike Brown to be the guy for some time. This is just a little validation for that speculation.

    Obviously, nothing is guaranteed at this point. Many variables are in play.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate



    I really think Vogel earned the job.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I really think Vogel earned the job.

    he probably did. But put yourself in Bird's shoes. What if he likes the job Vogel did but he just thinks Mike brown is a better coach, that Mike Brown is one of the top 4 or 5 coaches in the NBA.

    I'm not asking you to agree with Bird, but for this discussion, lets say you do, and if the owner will pay enough to get Brown and he wants to come here, don't you have to hire him.

    The GM's job is on the line so heneeds to get the best possible coach (in his estimation) that he can.

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  6. #104
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    When I heard about Mike Brown taking his name out of the running for the Rockets job, my first thought was he wants the Lakers gig.

    But more and more reports lean to the Lakers going with Brian Shaw since he knows Phil's coaching style and the triangle offense so well. Plus Phil himself has stated he would like one of his assistants to take over.

    So if Mike Brown is privy to all of this, maybe he is holding out for the Pacers job......which would be pretty sweet in my opinion. I like Vogel, but it would be hard to turn down Brown if he wants the job.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Interesting that even if Bird stays Vogel is not the guy Bird wants to be the head coach.
    We're extrapolating a line in a chat as a report from the source again. Bucher says Vogel is not the guy Bird wants. We should be careful not to start thinking that Bird said this somewhere.
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    We're extrapolating a line in a chat as a report from the source again. Bucher says Vogel is not the guy Bird wants. We should be careful not to start thinking that Bird said this somewhere.
    If Bird knew that Vogel was the guy he wanted, he would have already been hired on.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I can't see the Lakers considering Brown, but if they do, that will change things for him entirely.
    Brian Shaw should be the coach in LA

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    If Bird knew that Vogel was the guy he wanted, he would have already been hired on.
    Not knowing before interviews that Vogel IS the guy is not the same as knowing before interviews that Vogel is NOT the guy.

    I can't believe how many people are acting like due diligence to see who else is available and talk to them is some kind of insult or indication of a decision already made. There's no urgency in this hiring, why rush?
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    We don't even know for sure that Bird is coming back at this point. What would incline someone to think that under these circumstances Vogel would've already been hired if he was in fact the wanted man.
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    But put yourself in Bird's shoes. What if he likes the job Vogel did but he just thinks Mike brown is a better coach, that Mike Brown is one of the top 4 or 5 coaches in the NBA.

    I am only speaking for myself here, but even if what you say is true and Bird does feel Mike Brown is a top tier coach, it shouldn't change anything.

    Unless there were some things going on behind the scenes that we NEVER even got a whiff of, it should be abundantly clear that Vogel captured the hearts and minds of this team and got them to play at a MUCH higher level than they "should have". Especially in their playoff series.

    Am I saying Mike Brown is a bad choice for head coach? Absolutely not! I like Mike Brown.

    All I mean is that it should be very obvious that for OUR GUYS, Frank Vogel is THE man for the job right now. He has the perfect mixture of youth, determination, motivation and the ability to empathize and relate to his players that you simply cannot go out and hire elsewhere.

    He has been in the trenches with the majority of our core roster for nearly their entire careers (as an assistant), Danny and a few others being the exception.

    THAT is what makes him such a great candidate for our HC job, not his X's and O's versus the next candidates.

    I still don't understand why more Pacers fans don't feel this way?

    After all the years recently of fielding teams who didn't seem to care or give it their all or play with passion... We finally find a guy who brings that out of them for half a season in an interim role and then we DON'T want to re-hire him?!!? Because some other coach has been around the block a few more times?!

    I don't get it...
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Vogel or no Vogel. I dont want Brown. I think it will be a mistake. I will be happy to eat crow, but doubt I will.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Not knowing before interviews that Vogel IS the guy is not the same as knowing before interviews that Vogel is NOT the guy.

    I can't believe how many people are acting like due diligence to see who else is available and talk to them is some kind of insult or indication of a decision already made. There's no urgency in this hiring, why rush?
    Yeah, those things are not the same. That's also not what I said. Vogel is still one of the top candidates for the job. Bucher says he is not the top candidate, and I don't believe that he ever was, or even should have been.

    For this team, Vogel's best attribute was that he wasn't Jim O'Brien. I'm not saying any bum off the street could have gotten the same results, but the coaching change, for the sake of making a change (which is all Vogel's initial promotion was) was the biggest factor in the team's improvement toward the end of the season. Obviously, there were huge strategic changes, and better tactical adjustments that came with the change, but pretty much any coach worth his salt could have seen the need to make those moves. They were obvious, common sense decisions. They were not brilliant basketball decisions.

    I don't believe it is any kind of insult for the Pacers to interview other candidates. Vogel doesn't have the background to make him worthy of us not looking into other names. He did a good job in his interim role, but there is a reason that the term interim was attached to his job title. He hasn't earned the full-time gig yet.

    There is no rush to make this decision. I've said as much. I'm fine with the decision if we decide to retain Vogel. I'm fine with the decision if we decide to go in another direction. Vogel is still going to be out there for us. He is a perfect fall-back option if there are other candidates that we like. If we bring in somebody like Brown, or Adelman for interviews and it doesn't work out. Great, we still have Vogel. If we bring in Brown and Adelman for an interview and their is a high level of mutual interest, we can keep pursuing it. If it falls through at the end, great, we still have Vogel.

    It's a fluid situation, I'm just making the educated guess that Brown is the front runner. Vogel is probably a close second in the race. Nobody is declaring the race over.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    he probably did. But put yourself in Bird's shoes. What if he likes the job Vogel did but he just thinks Mike brown is a better coach, that Mike Brown is one of the top 4 or 5 coaches in the NBA.

    I'm not asking you to agree with Bird, but for this discussion, lets say you do, and if the owner will pay enough to get Brown and he wants to come here, don't you have to hire him.

    The GM's job is on the line so heneeds to get the best possible coach (in his estimation) that he can.
    I understand where Bird is coming from, if he thinks Brown is the right guy.

    I just personally happen to think Vogel is the right guy. I haven't seen Brown do anything other than the Lebron years. And those years, the guy was more a babysitter than a coach.

    To be honest, the only reason why I want Bird back is because Vogel has a much better chance of getting the job with Bird than with a different GM. I understand interviewing other candidates. That's the correct thing to do. But I really don't think Brown is a better candidate for this team than Vogel. The players love him. He can clearly motivate them. With the exception of a few rookie mistakes, he's done well at a basketball level. And most of the guys on this team are young, and consistency means a lot to them.

    The biggest question mark for me, with Vogel. Is offense. But that's the biggest question mark for me with Brown too.
    Last edited by Sookie; 05-09-2011 at 01:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Yeah, those things are not the same. That's also not what I said. Vogel is still one of the top candidates for the job. Bucher says he is not the top candidate, and I don't believe that he ever was, or even should have been.
    OK, I think I misunderstood what you meant. It sounds like we're agreeing.
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I haven't seen Brown do anything other than the Lebron years. And those years, the guy was more a babysitter than a coach.
    Well, those are his only years as a head coach. I'm not sure what you're expecting.

    This babysitter notion is nonsense. Do people really think they made the Finals with a do-nothing coach? Do people think he won 66 games and was COY by doing nothing in 2008-09?

    It was all LeBron? Really?

    I don't think Mike Brown is a top-five coach by any means, but to discount a guy because he had a star player is ludicrous ... especially when supporting a guy who hasn't coached a full NBA season.

    I like Vogel and Brown, and can understand arguments for both.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Mike Brown will be an awful hire

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I understand where Bird is coming from, if he thinks Brown is the right guy.
    I can't. I can understand if Bird would rather have one of a couple proven hall of fame coaches that might be on the market this summer, but not someone who has only coached LeBron.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    You don't want Vogel..........bye bye Larry.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Everyone has been saying that all the Players will walk through a wall for Vogel....but how do we know that they won't do the same ( eventually ) for Mike Brown. I've never gotten the impression that Mike Brown was not a "Players Coach".
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Vogel is the right guy for THIS team.

    Mike Brown isn't bad, but he's not going to develop players and get on their level like Vogel has.

    I don't know what Bird sees in Brown and what he can do for this team better than what Vogel did. The players want him back, they liked him and respected him, he loved being the coach.

    This will be a big mistake letting Vogel go.

    IMO, he's the right coach for this young, up and coming team.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    If Bird knew that Vogel was the guy he wanted, he would have already been hired on.
    I disagree. Bird would only do that if he knew he himself was coming back. As is he wants to come back but wants to talk to Herb first obviously to see if he can do things his way.

    I think he wants someone else. (Brown or Casey is the speculation) However Herb might tell Bird he can hire who he wants as long as it's not over a certain amount of money.

    That being the case Brown and Casey might not want the job for what Bird can offer, thus Vogel would get the job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    For this team, Vogel's best attribute was that he wasn't Jim O'Brien. I'm not saying any bum off the street could have gotten the same results, but the coaching change, for the sake of making a change (which is all Vogel's initial promotion was) was the biggest factor in the team's improvement toward the end of the season. Obviously, there were huge strategic changes, and better tactical adjustments that came with the change, but pretty much any coach worth his salt could have seen the need to make those moves. They were obvious, common sense decisions. They were not brilliant basketball decisions.
    Excellent post! This is what I'm thinking.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 05-09-2011 at 03:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Vogel is the right guy for THIS team.

    Mike Brown isn't bad, but he's not going to develop players and get on their level like Vogel has.

    I don't know what Bird sees in Brown and what he can do for this team better than what Vogel did. The players want him back, they liked him and respected him, he loved being the coach.

    IMO, he's the right coach for this young, up and coming team.

    I mentioned this in another thread, but my question is how many of these current players will be here in 17 months, - October 2012. I would argue only 4 or 5 of the current players will be here as we enter that new season. So I think it is a mistake to hire a coach based on who would be better with these current players. No matter who the coaches are involved. I think you hire the best coach possible.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I mentioned this in another thread, but my question is how many of these current players will be here in 17 months, - October 2012. I would argue only 4 or 5 of the current players will be here as we enter that new season. So I think it is a mistake to hire a coach based on who would be better with these current players. No matter who the coaches are involved. I think you hire the best coach possible.
    I'm not going to disagree with you there and frankly, if it's not Vogel, Brown is probably my alternative choice.

    Looking at where this team is heading, young and upcoming, Vogel is probably the best choice to coach the team. Not just with this current Pacers team, but he'd probably do well with any young team on the rise like Houston.

    Now going down a different route, if we bring in some solid pieces via cap space (a veteran Nene), then Mike Brown might be a better choice to coach a better core.

    So, I'm glad Bird is keeping all options open. He has Vogel as a strong candidate. He's most likely getting the first interview. I just hope he chooses wisely and who will be the best fit long term with some of these young players who are still improving.

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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    If Bird knew that Vogel was the guy he wanted, he would have already been hired on.
    I kind of think that way as well

    Its not like any of the remaining coaches currently in the playoffs are under consideration
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    Default Re: Vogel interviewed by Rockets (Update post #91 - Vogel no longer a candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I'm not going to disagree with you there and frankly, if it's not Vogel, Brown is probably my alternative choice.

    Looking at where this team is heading, young and upcoming, Vogel is probably the best choice to coach the team. Not just with this current Pacers team, but he'd probably do well with any young team on the rise like Houston.

    Now going down a different route, if we bring in some solid pieces via cap space (a veteran Nene), then Mike Brown might be a better choice to coach a better core.

    So, I'm glad Bird is keeping all options open. He has Vogel as a strong candidate. He's most likely getting the first interview. I just hope he chooses wisely and who will be the best fit long term with some of these young players who are still improving.
    This strikes me that you're making a decision from your heart, and not your head.

    If we go through a formal interview process, and Vogel is the final selection, I'll be thrilled, because *both* my head and heart will be satisfied.

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