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Thread: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

  1. #26
    Member Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This deserves some discussion.

    Why haven't the players said they want Frank as their coach. Are they just covering themselves? No one wants to go out on a limb?

    I think what Kravitz is saying here, that no player on or even off the record (you know Wells will back this up) is saying that Frank should get the job is extremely revealing and to me that is a huge red flag.

    Makes me wonder. Do the players think yeah Frank was great as the anti-Job, but as the full time coach for the next 3 seasons they aren't sure. Do the players think Frank is too soft on the players, is he too positive - that can get old pretty quick.

    This makes me completely re-think whether Vogel should be the coach going forward.

    Some of you will think I am over-reacting, but what the players think is vital

    One thing I will say and I do not know if this applies to Vogel or not. But a coach does need to be really strong with X's and O's, because late in a close game when the players go into the huddle with their coach, they have to believe what the coach is saying, the play he is calling the set he is drawing up. A coach can be a great motivator, a breath of fresh air after the previous coach, but there has to be some real substance in reserve
    Are we forgetting Tyler's post game press conference following Game 5?

    http://www.nba.com/video/channels/pl..._postgame5.nba

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    "Unless he does something crazy..."

    Those words will haunt us one of these days folks...haunt us.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  5. #28

    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Glad to see Larry holding Danny accountable for some of the regressions he made pre-playoffs.

    It's nice to hear Bird say what many have been saying ALL year long!

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    I think the term go-to-scorer is very broad in meaning. I mean everybody on that team can be a go-to-scorer, but they just to assign one player on that. The only skills that a go-to-scorer need is to be able to shoot the ball in crunch time, whether it's a jumper, a dribble drive or an alley-oop. The critical part is what is the most suitable play for your go-to-scorer. Reggie is the go-to-guy for points. Does he have crazy dribbling skills? No. Does he have great athleticism? No. Can he create his own shot ala Jordan or Kobe? No. But how is he successful as a go-to-guy for points? They have great set plays for him, like screens and picks and specific player movement for him to get open jumpers. That's just it. The key is on the set plays for your chosen go-to-guy.
    I don't necessarily agree with this. Reggie was unique because he was one of the best, if not thee best player in recent NBA history, in coming off screens and shooting curl jumpers. You simply couldn't defend it without giving him enough time to get a good look off. Even if we set screens for Danny like this, he wouldn't be nearly as effective because that's not his skill-set. So what does that leave us in terms of plays for Danny?

    The problem with Danny is that his skill-set is between a good shooter and a good one on one player (but he's not great at either). He's not Ray Allen, but he's not Kobe one one one either (very few are). That's why I think its hard to make him the go-to guy. I don't think he's a guy you set "Reggie screens" for, and he's not a guy you can just give the ball, iso, a al Derrick Rose, and simply say "take them".

  7. #30

    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    "Unless he does something crazy..."

    Those words will haunt us one of these days folks...haunt us.

    Absolutely! Stephenson cares the feces out of me! His propensity for doing harm to the franchise isn't worth it. Bird knows it too, but hopes Stephenson "will get it in the very near future." He admits he causes problems, and yet sticks his head in the sand. Love of talent can only go so far when it's the franchise future at stake. It's like with Artest. It wasn't if he'd cause another problem but when.

  8. #31
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Damn...if you're a player and you're known as "A pain in the ***," I don't know why he's being kept around. Especially the 12-15th man.
    Because as the 12-15th man he's really not going to ruin the team, and if he does get his head on straight he automatically becomes a rotation player that can give other teams fits instead of us.

    I DO think that he needs to be gone if he screws up majorly again.
    Grown Man Ball

  9. #32

    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    On my Facebook poll, 3 vote for Vogel to get the job, and one person dissents. You know who he keeps reminding me of? Lawrence Frank. I know that may not be a valid comparison, but Frank was a young guy when he went to coach the nets. He actually had a decent run for a few years before they just became terrible.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Frank

    I think the challenge with coaches, is that at least with Vogel we have a known. There are very few coaches that are awesome wherever you go. I mean after Riley, Jackson, and Larry Brown... who else is there?
    “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
    motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
    Reggie Miller

  10. #33

    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    I never realized how much Bird and my thinking were alike on what this team needs and how to get it.

    "Anyone who watches us play a little bit and has any BB IQ knows what we need." It's no secret. Everyone around the league knows what we are looking for in the draft and FA." "So for the most part it will have to come through trades, much like the one last year that landed DC."

    #1 a PF.

    It's pretty obvious he doesn't see Hans as the starting PF of the future as many feel Hans is.

    #2 Perimeter scorer. Thus the failed trade to get Mayo, b/c Mr. Inconsistant is too inconsistant. Rush has just become another Rush.

    I'm not sure Shade won't be proven right about Bayless not being the player that shouldn't have been traded. Especially, if he continues to play like he did in those 8 games in April next year. OH btw, he was playing PG position and averaging 22 PPG.

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    I think he's banking on Stephenson. I can't say which coach but I was told off the record last summer they were worried about his head/maturity, but he had the talent to be more than an allstar. We're talking Deron Williams, Carmello Anthony skills.
    I hope to hell he's not banking on Stephenson for anything. Especially to be our leading scorer.

    And I'm someone who sees the talent.

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    I'm sorry count me as someone who doesn't see the talent either.

    Was ok at Cincinatti (the fact he even had to go there should tell us something) and didn't see anything this year.

    Let's assume for a second that he is as talented as some make him out to be, then how big of a head case does that make him that they STILL wouldn't play him? I mean we aren't exactly the Los Angeles Lakers or the Boston Celtics when it comes to depth. We could use the horses.

    So our choices are either

    1.) Incredibly talent, but so bat**** crazy he can't even get off the bench on a team that was 37-45.

    or

    2.) Not that good, and still pretty crazy.

    Those are the 2 options.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  14. #36

    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    "Unless he does something crazy..."

    Those words will haunt us one of these days folks...haunt us.
    I agree. I think Bird has given Lance too long of a leash here that he could eventually hang himself with. The message to me is that "hey, we will keep putting up with your crap and indiscretions, as long as you don't get arrested." Hello Tinsley Part II.

  15. #37
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    I see Lance's considerably talent. he's got a great NBA body and true point guard skills that put Collison and Price to shame

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    It doesn't appear Bird is ready to cut Stephenson loose so should Bird be cut loose for bad judgment?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  18. #39

    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Absolutely! Stephenson cares the feces out of me! His propensity for doing harm to the franchise isn't worth it. Bird knows it too, but hopes Stephenson "will get it in the very near future." He admits he causes problems, and yet sticks his head in the sand. Love of talent can only go so far when it's the franchise future at stake. It's like with Artest. It wasn't if he'd cause another problem but when.

    I know Lance loves to stir up the ****, but personally, I don't give a crap

    Seriously though... There is a huge difference between Lance and Artest. The main one being that Lance isn't our most important player. If Lance does something stupid... big deal. We move on and slightly ponder what could have been after DC dribbles the ball off his foot for the 3rd time in a game.
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 04-28-2011 at 12:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    ......1.) Incredibly talented, but so bat**** crazy he can't even get off the bench on a team that was 37-45.....
    I just keeping seeing Lance looking like Joe Dirt when he is in the fumigation tent.

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  22. #41
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Rush's contract was worth renewing. I never expected him to be an allstar. He is a decent rotation player. Capable of guarding several top tier NBA players in spots.

    Liked what I read about PG. If DC gets too much bulk does his already inconsistent jump shot regress?

    I think we can find the long 4 maybe in the draft but the rookie to be will not have a huge impact this next season. Do the Pacers resign Mc Roberts?

  23. #42
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I see Lance's considerably talent. he's got a great NBA body and true point guard skills that put Collison and Price to shame
    I agree, its shame we did not get to see him that much this year. I remember seeing him make amazing heads up passes to get guys easy buckets during the 6 gamer losing streak. I thought that when we first drafted him that he was going to be a tunnel vision chucker who can get to the hoop.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  25. #43
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I see Lance's considerably talent. he's got a great NBA body and true point guard skills that put Collison and Price to shame
    Lance won't ever play to his abilities unless he can play at his true position of SG. He has the talent and ability to get his own shot and instead of setting others up, he should be used as the designated ISO player - or not at all.

    I still think there are better options out there but I guess we'll just have to stick with Lance for at least another season.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    It doesn't appear Bird is ready to cut Stephenson loose so should Bird be cut loose for bad judgment?
    Possibly.

  27. #45
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    The 'so what if he blows up' argument doesn't work IMO. You have to remember the only reason they would put up with him is because they believe he's talented enough to become an important member of this team. He won't stay the 12th man forever.

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    The 'so what if he blows up' argument doesn't work IMO. You have to remember the only reason they would put up with him is because they believe he's talented enough to become an important member of this team. He won't stay the 12th man forever.
    Absolutely agree. What's in play is Walsh always wanted to be competitive while Bird isn't satisfied unless you're playing for a championship. Obviously he feels there are very few current Pacers that can attain that goal. He put's Stephenson and George in the can talent range.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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  30. #47
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I see Lance's considerably talent. he's got a great NBA body and true point guard skills that put Collison and Price to shame
    Let's say Lance gets past his off-court issues and truly does pan out. Who would you compare his game to? I'm having trouble coming up with a decent comparison.

    Lance may have an NBA body, but that sort of strong, thick frame is usually not associated with NBA guards.

  31. #48

    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    The fact that I want Frank Vogel back, makes me want Bird back too.

    The fact that Bird is this much in love with Lance, that he ignores the fact that his teammates can't stand him, he's screwed up 4 times already..shows a side of Bird that the Jim O'brien thing showed. He's stubborn. Possibly too stubborn for the team's good.

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    Absolutely agree. What's in play is Walsh always wanted to be competitive while Bird isn't satisfied unless you're playing for a championship. Obviously he feels there are very few current Pacers that can attain that goal. He put's Stephenson and George in the can talent range.
    Tyreke Evans.

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    Default Re: Kravitz end of the season sit down with Bird..

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I don't necessarily agree with this. Reggie was unique because he was one of the best, if not thee best player in recent NBA history, in coming off screens and shooting curl jumpers. You simply couldn't defend it without giving him enough time to get a good look off. Even if we set screens for Danny like this, he wouldn't be nearly as effective because that's not his skill-set. So what does that leave us in terms of plays for Danny?

    The problem with Danny is that his skill-set is between a good shooter and a good one on one player (but he's not great at either). He's not Ray Allen, but he's not Kobe one one one either (very few are). That's why I think its hard to make him the go-to guy. I don't think he's a guy you set "Reggie screens" for, and he's not a guy you can just give the ball, iso, a al Derrick Rose, and simply say "take them".

    That handoff DC gave to and led to a 3 late in the last game by DG was pretty sweet. Danny's a pretty darn good shooter.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVVWzM8hV0I

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