Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 68 of 68

Thread: Things we learned from the playoffs

  1. #51

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Great post. Here is what I learned, but not just from the playoffs. From the time that Frank replaced JOB:

    1) I don't think there is hate for Roy as some have mentioned, but I think many people, including me, think that he has issues that you cannot teach to. He is just not the aggressive/assertive guy that we had hoped for. Now, having said this, onto point #2.
    2) I learned that with the right guy at the helm, a team can make an astronomical progression in a very short time. With this in mind, I am more than willing to see what Frank can do with Roy as well as DC, who is also someone that many are not sold on, but hey, it's just his second year.
    3) So, I am high on Frank b/c of the amazing body of work he was able to do in a relatively short time. He deserves a 3 year contract. I would like to see him have Roy and DC work their butts off and hopefully arrange for the Pacers will bring in some folks to work with them this offseason.
    4) I would like to see Danny, DC, Tyler, PG, Roy and Jeff back next season. I thank Mike, TJ, Posey, Rush and Solo for their efforts, but it's time for them to move on. On the fence about AJ, but maybe someone could work with him this summer as well. But..bye-bye Lance! Would love for Josh to stick around, but not willing to pay a high price.

  2. #52
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I learned that veteran experience makes a difference because I was just trying to think who I felt were the players I felt were the most consistent and reliable for the time they played, and I thought of Danny, Jeff, and Dahntay.

    Looking at the whole team, I'll start with point guards and work my way down.

    Darren's ankle injury was a major bummer because I thought he was stepping up to the moment with his offensive game. He fizzled out, but it's impossible to know what % of that was the injury and what % was just him/basketball.

    I'm okay with DC coming back as the starter because I think he has room to grow and I think offensively he can be as potent as Danny Granger. That doesn't mean I'm happy with his court vision and passing, because I'm not. If you can get a better floor general who, overall, is no worse than DC, you probably ought to get him.

    AJ didn't bother me as much as he bothered Peck because when he's in the game with Rush/Jones, Dunleavy, McRoberts, and Foster, his options are basically call a play to try to get Rush or Mike open for a jump shot, pick and roll, or iso. If you lean on Mike and Brandon for your offense in the playoffs you're usually screwed, and a pick and roll with Josh (especially crippled Josh) and Jeff means the majority of the time your best option is to shoot or drive yourself, and after that it's just iso plays. So I understand why he played like a scoring guard. I can live with AJ if he can figure out how to raise his FG%.

    Lance Stephenson: _________________. Next.

    TJ Ford. Professional, nice guy, seems to get along with the others. Good player, to a point, but not someone you want to rely upon. I think he'll find a new team that can put him to some use.

    Shooting guards.

    I'm ready to move on from Dunleavy. I'm ready to move on from Rush. If I had to choose to keep one, it'd easily be Rush because good teams can usually find use for a guy like him to try to shut a single player down while knocking down shots. Dunleavy's been discussed to death, but I think it's obvious that in a playoff atmosphere his skills are less usable than normal.

    Dahntay Jones is another piece that's good to have around in the playoffs. Similar to Rush with regards to it being nice to have a good wing defender, though obviously he can't be counted on to hit shots. Still, in very limited doses, he can create offense for you and bring toughness.

    Paul George is obviously a keeper and the big question is how much better he can be offensively. He'll show flashes of being able to create his own shots from about 15 feet and nail them, but he needs to be able to do that about 5x as much as he currently does it. Other than that, I really, really hope he can learn to not be so limp-wristed when he tries to finish at the rim. Too many soft, soft, way below the rim, layup attempts. In the immortal words of Bill Walton, "THROW IT DOWN!!!". But defensively, I think anyone who paid attention now realizes this kid has 1st team all-defense, perhaps defensive player of the year ability, and we got a nice, extended look at that aspect of his game. He could be a monster defensively.

    Small forwards.

    Danny Granger consistently showed up. I admit I've tuned out on Danny and take him for granted. I became jaded when I realized he was never going to be the consistent two-way player I know/thought he could be, and offensively, I still hate it when he forces the action, but the truth remains that in the playoffs, against a terrific defensive team, he put up very solid numbers and proved we have a very good small forward. Not a superstar by any means, but a borderline all-star like Rip Hamilton was for Detroit. A keeper that can drive you nuts.

    Oh God I just realized I've been brainwashed. I tucked Mike Dunleavy's comments up in the shooting guard section because I've been overexposed to the concept of him as a 2 for too many years here in Indiana. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!

    James Posey has not been here long enough for me to mistakenly list him with the power fowards. I realize that's where he played 99% of the time due to his inability to be effective at the 3 anymore, but that's ultimately what he is: A broken down small forward who can 'technically' be used at the 4 for small ball. He's clearly washed up, and my only interest in him is his now expiring contract of about $7.5 million we might be able to use as trade bait next year.

    Power forwards.

    We have no starter. We have two players who can masquerade as a starter, but it's just an act.

    Josh McRoberts. I've never been in love with Josh as much as his biggest fans, but if your choices are he and Tyler, Josh is the better choice to pair with DC, Danny, and Roy. But that doesn't for a second mean I view him as a starting-quality player. He's interesting, he's selectively very talented (passing, finish, and dribbling), but he still has a lot of flaws that I don't think will ever be upgraded to the level of his current strengths. I also don't like the signs here and there that he's still a bit too immature. That used to be a bigger red flag in his past, and I think he's grown, but it's still there.

    Tyler Hansbrough. I love scrappy, busting-their-asses-to-maximize-their-abilities guys like him, and I love underdogs, which, in this league, he clearly is. I think he's the cliche 'winner' that you always like to have on your team in terms of high-energy/effort, no quit, tough-as-nails, and willing/able to hit big shots. I think he's just 'regular athletic' as opposed to 'under athletic', I think he's more skilled than he's often given credit for, and I think he's proven the skeptics wrong who thought he would never succeed in this league.

    With all of that said, he's still too small, he's not athletic enough to be a starting power forward, he's not offensively reliable, he needs serious work in the passing department as well as with his defensive awareness, and sometimes he thinks he's better than he is, to the detriment of his team.

    Between the two, it's just a matter of who would you rather be our backup 4. I would rather bring Tyler Hansbrough off my bench than Josh McRoberts.

    Centers.

    Roy Hibbert. I haven't given up on him, but I'm certainly not optimistic anymore. I firmly believe we will not do better than Roy at the 5, and I also believe year 3 isn't necessarily a young, developing center's moment of truth. Those are why I think our best bet is to just wait him out, accept you almost certainly won't get a better center any time soon, and just keep trying to get more talented in other ways at other positions. Roy can't handle physical, playoff basketball. I was disappointed in how he regressed at dunking the ball. During the regular season, he was getting better and better at throwing it down in the paint, but it seemed like he really regressed in the post season.

    With Roy, I see a hard-working, skilled, good-intentioned young man with his head on his shoulders. But I also see a guy whose body was barely meant to play basketball (I only say that because if I say a body wasn't meant to play basketball, it'd be someone whose body keeps breaking down). He's still awkward and gets off-balance too easily. I want him to strengthen his legs, but ultimately it's going to come down to improving his balance. Get big men to keep beating him up on the block this summer and drill, drill, drill at getting off his moves and finishing with all of that contact. Learn to find your balance while you're getting bumped around.

    There's still hope for Roy.

    Jeff Foster. Reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated. Love what he brings, love his legacy with this team, and I'd welcome him back for another couple years, if he can handle it. Nothing else needs to be said, really. We all know what he does, and he's proven that he can still bring it in spades when it matters the most. I hope he retires a Pacer. Maybe Herb will give him an Acura when he retires.

    Solomon Jones. I'm done with him. He has some ability, but not enough ability for me to care about him. Enter the Stanko.

    -----

    So what does that make the blue print look like?

    Well, let's start with what I'm comfortable with. I'm comfortable with our starting shooting guard, our starting small forward, our backup power forward, and our backup center.

    That would be Paul George, Danny Granger, Tyler Hansbrough, and Jeff Foster.

    So I guess the first thing I'll add to the 2011 To Do List is re-sign Jeff Foster.

    Next, who would I not think twice about losing? I'll list them all, but keep in mind I like some of them.

    TJ Ford, AJ Price, Lance Stephenson, Brandon Rush, Mike Dunleavy, James Posey, Josh McRoberts, Solomon Jones.

    So next on the To Do List is to let Ford, Dunleavy, McRoberts, and Jones leave, though explore sign-and-trades just in case.

    Next on the To Do List is explore yet another possible trade of Brandon Rush. If you like what you see, take it.

    AJ Price I can take or leave. He's got a non-guaranteed contract, so I'm totally fine with exploring other possibilities at the backup point guard spot.

    So next on the To Do List is to try to get a new backup point with more experience who is preferably much bigger and stronger than DC. Jarrett Jack comes to mind. If he hadn't totally scared me away with all that BS drama in Detroit, I'd mention Rodney Stuckey as a thought, but I'm very gunshy with anyone from the 2011 Pistons. Otherwise, a veteran like Felton is interesting.

    That leaves the folks who I acknowledge that an upgrade would be preferred, but I doubt we'll do better, and/or I also don't think they're that bad.

    Darren Collison, Dahntay Jones, Roy Hibbert.

    It's hard to decide where to put Dahntay. Ultimately I'm okay with him, though preferably as the 4th or 5th wing.

    Look, I see what you all see with DC and Roy's weaknesses. They both drive me crazy on occasion. But I seriously doubt we do better any time soon, so get used to them. Thankfully, they're not a total lost cause, and they both very well might improve.

    ----

    So let's see:

    Summary of the To Do List (in no particular order)

    * Re-sign Jeff Foster
    * Let Ford, Dunleavy, McRoberts, and Jones walk, explore sign-and-trades if applicable
    * Place Stephenson, Rush, and Posey on the trading block
    * Be open to trading anyone else, but don't lose sleep over it
    * Be looking for a better starting point guard and a better starting center, but don't hold your breath
    * Heavily pursue a superior starting power forward who brings a lot of size, doesn't get pushed around, and the more athletic the better
    * Look for a superior backup point guard with more size, strength, and experience
    * Look for a superior backup shooting guard who can create his own offense
    * Look for a new backup small forward who hopefully plays better defense than Dunleavy
    * Look for Jeff Foster's successor (Stanko?)

    Collison/New bPG or AJ Price
    George/New bSG or Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush
    Granger/New bSF
    New PF/Hansbrough
    Hibbert/Foster

    That should hopefully be the worst case scenario roster when the season starts.

    If we keep the 15th pick, I'd hope we take a stab at a backup 3 or 5.

  3. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  4. #53
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,112
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Why do we have to spend all our cap relief this offseason? Do we want to repeat what Detroit did with Gordon and CharlieV?

    Sit on most of it.

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Major Cold For This Useful Post:


  6. #54

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So I guess the first thing I'll add to the 2011 To Do List is re-sign Jeff Foster.
    I definitely agree, especially if Mackey Rose gives his blessing!

    Besides re-signing Jeff, the other matter that should be settled independent of any other is to sign Vogel to a 3 year contract.

  7. #55

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    What I learned, these guys have a lot of heart. They are capable of playing really good defense, and are capable of competing with elite teams. We've known this all year, as they've shown flashes, but to do it for four games in a row..I was proud. It's unfortunate, we really should have been more in this series.

    Individual players

    I'm still on DC's side. He didn't have a great playoff series after the ankle turn. And he dribbles around in circles too much, but he also can make some really good plays and is a good scorer. He's not everyone's ideal point guard, but certainly give him another year of development.

    It's extremely difficult to learn the PG position. Collison had had to learn 4 or 5 different offenses because he's had 4 or 5 different coaches. He was put in a position that had a lot of pressure on him, and for the first half of the season, was in an offense that didn't suit him at all. And in the playoffs, he showed a lot of toughness. From the first game of going right at Rose, to the third game of playing despite his injury. He's a second year guy, he needs to develop. Over the summer he needs to work on controlling his body, controlling the ball, and controlling the team. To me, that's his biggest problem.

    Roy Hibbert needs to get stronger, mentally and physically. And mentally is a bigger issue. I don't know what Jimmy did to him, because I don't remember him being this soft mentally in college. But he needs to come out of it and get his head on straight. No more getting too high or too low. He also needs to strengthen his core. He gets pushed around too easily.

    I was really hoping Roy would have a fantastic season. When a guy works as hard as Roy did, you really want him to succeed. And he had some really good moments this season and this series, but overall, I expected him to be better. I still think he has the potential to be better, and I fully expect him to work just as hard this summer. But I don't know that he's got the mentality for being anything more than a solid starter. Hopefully I'm wrong and it's just an age + Jimmy thing.

    AJ Price, has some how become the new whipping boy. One mistake or one bad shot seemed to equal omgihateajhesux!! Good timing, seeing as Dun unfortunately most likely won't be back. I would have thought people would be more reasonable with their expectations for AJ this season, but whatever. He actually played very well in the playoffs overall. He didn't play like some wanted him too (me included) but he played well.

    That said, the mentality change from AJ bothers me more than anyone here. I've watched the kid for a long time. Being a court general, is the best part of his game. In fact, it's the reason I'm a fan. Don't get me wrong, he always got his confidence from shooting. But he always had a fantastic balance of knowing when to look for his own shot and when to set others up. On the one hand, given the lineups he was put on the floor with, and that I think Vogel looked at him as a primary scorer, I understand why he played the way he played. But..whether it was simply his role for this season, whether it was scars from O'brien, or whether AJ just made a sudden switch in on court personality for whatever reason, I hope that his focus over the summer (other than no knee injuries kthx) is to get back to playing like a "court general" and getting his mind back into the better balance he once had. (he can also work on defense and a more consistent shot..)

    Tyler and Josh, to me they go together. My dream scenario is to keep them both, have Josh play backup Center (getting stronger) Tyler play backup PF, and get a PF. The Pacers need a better defender and rebounder up front next to Roy. And Neither Tyler or Josh are ever going to become that. But I adore them both (so I hate the fighting over them..) and hope we keep both. (Not so worried about keeping Tyler..)

    I'd like them both to work on their midrange shot. As I said, Josh needs to get stronger, Tyler needs to work on passing. But I like what each one brings to the table.

    Danny Granger really showed up this series. That was what I needed to see from him. He shot well, he defended well. He led the team. He stuck up for Josh and Tyler when Noah went after them. This series made me like Danny Granger more than I ever have. And I never got on the "Blame Danny" train.

    Is he elite. No, I don't think so. He's not Kobe Lebron, Durant or Wade. But there are only four of those guys. I think he's certainly in the next tier. We just need another guy equal to him in talent..and to wait until Paul George develops.

    Jeff Foster..If he wants to come back, he should get to come back. He can clearly still contribute. He was great in this series. Which was great to see. If he retires, this is probably a really good way to go.

    Dahntay is Dahntay and Brandon is Brandon. At this point they are what they are, and if you like them you like them, and if you don't you don't. I personally like them both in a limited role. But we only need one of them.

    and finally Paul George. Paul George's defense is really spectacular. The way he played Rose was fantastic, and he should get an unlimited amount of praise for it. I just..could go on and on about how excited I am about this kid. Because I honestly, 100% believe, that Paul George has the potential to be one of the best players in this league. He has the offensive and defensive skills, wait until they develop. To me, Paul George is the only guy who is off limits in terms of trading this season. Like, completely off limits unless someone wants to give us an elite talent for him. I'm not typically huge on potential. But my god..

    And to me, this was not a coming out party for Paul George. This was just a glimpse of him. I think, like Hibbert, he's got the work ethic to really improve. And he seems like a smart kid with a good mentality too. So all signs point to really really good things for him.

    For over the summer, we need a starting PF more than anything. I also think we need an SG that can score, not for long, because I expect PG to get there..and if we just wanted to roll with PG and quickly develop him that's fine, but I wouldn't mind getting an SG that can score, and letting PG develop a little slower.
    Last edited by Sookie; 04-27-2011 at 01:48 PM.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sookie For This Useful Post:


  9. #56
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,773

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I think it would be a mistake for the Pacers to just sort of go with the flow this summer. Going with the flow means let the free agents contract expire, keep all those currently under contract and add a draft pick, 3 free agents and come back next year and see what happens. I think the core needs to change. If I were in charge I would be looking to keep Tyler, George, and Granger and look to wheel and deal everyone else.

    This is the most important summer for the Pacers in many many years (wasn't there a year back in the 90's where the Pacers re-signed Reggie, AD and DD. It is as important as that. if the right moves are made this summer the franchise could very well be set for the next 5 or 6 years.

    I am expecting major changes, because we finally have cap space and some tradeable player that I think we should be willing to trade.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-27-2011 at 02:26 PM.

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Unclebuck For This Useful Post:


  11. #57
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,943

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Was Brandon's D that great this series? I'm gonna be honest, I thought it sucked. He was easily the worst defensive wing other than Dunleavy IMO.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  13. #58
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,639

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Was Brandon's D that great this series? I'm gonna be honest, I thought it sucked. He was easily the worst defensive wing other than Dunleavy IMO.
    Vogel must have agreed with you because anytime that Rose came on the floor during games 3 & 4 Brandon came out.

    I'll say this, his defense was not stellar to be certain. Unlike Paul's which was almost otherwordly considering his is a rookie.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Peck For This Useful Post:


  15. #59
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,943

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Rush was getting worked the entire series chasing people around screens. I don't know Brandon is not long for the NBA world at this point I think.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  16. #60
    Member GizzyStardust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why do we have to spend all our cap relief this offseason? Do we want to repeat what Detroit did with Gordon and CharlieV?
    This is undoubtedly my biggest fear. I sincerely hope and expect that our management is prudent enough not to fall into this trap.

    Also, I agree 100% with the sentiment that some of you have expressed about resigning Foster. He still has some gas left in the tank and proved (as usual) to be an invaluable team presence and role player off the bench this postseason. That man should retire as a Pacer.

  17. #61
    #SeePGFly KingGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bloomington
    Age
    23
    Posts
    911

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    What I learned from the playoffs...

    - Paul George is the man. He will be our best player in 2 years.

    - I thought Vogel deserved the job even if we didn't make the playoffs, but he proved that he is going to take this team far in years to come, if given the chance.

    - Maybe I expected too much, but Hansbrough didn't show up in this series offensively after game 1. We must upgrade at the PF position over the summer.

    - We need to find a dependable backup PG.

    - People are getting excited about the Pacers again

    - Vogel was right when he said it would be a special end to this season.

    - The season ended to early.

  18. #62
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,053

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Granger finally decided to play like he should in the regular season.

    If Roy doesn't get stronger and tougher he isn't the answer. I'm not asking for Dale Davis tough, but just the ability to hold is own.

    George will defiantly be on the 1st team all-defense in his future.

    Price is clutch, has more potential to be a true PG than Collison, but isn't good enough to play Price ball and not getting others involved.

    Rush I don't get why people think we need to get rid of him after this series. When he was given time he played well. He wasn't perfect, but he didn't have a bad minute the whole series. I don't know what Vogel was thinking playing Dunleavy over him. I swear most of you guys just watch the ball and not the whole game.

  19. #63

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    To me, you structurally need a roster of 10 solid players. The final five can be whatever ... projects, rookies, expiring contracts or the Kool-Aid man. Whatever.

    You need two point guards, three impact wings, a fourth rotational wing, three impact bigs and a fourth rotational big.

    What do the Pacers have?

    PG -- Darren Collison: Pluses and minuses have been discussed. Could they do better? Sure. But I don't want to get into who the Pacers could get rather than what roles they need to fill.
    PG -- [NEED]
    WING -- Paul George: Obviously, a lot of talent and potential.
    WING -- Danny Granger: Where was this guy all season?
    WING -- [NEED]
    FOURTH WING -- Dahntay Jones: Under reasonable contract. Plays hard. Similar to Rush, but you don't need two glue guys like this in your rotation.
    BIG Roy Hibbert -- Kind of the same ground as Collison for me. Talent, but deficiencies. Is upgrade possible? Yeah. But you can at least call him one of three solid bigs.
    BIG Tyler Hansbrough -- I prefer him off the bench.
    BIG [NEED]
    FOURTH BIG Jeff Foster -- Not under contract. Wish he was. Perfect player for this role.

    And the leftovers ...

    Lance Stephenson: Who knows? Fine project on end of bench if he weren't, well, you know.
    A.J. Price: As project guy on end of bench, great ... otherwise, meh.
    Solomon Jones: Let him go.
    Mike Dunleavy: Let him go.
    Brandon Rush: Trade him. Not good enough offensively to be third wing. Not enough motor to supplant Dahntay Jones as situational wing.
    Josh McRoberts: Let him go, because he'll cost too much to re-sign. Not good enough to be an impact player down low. Never will be. Don't want to pay him remotely in that range. Would rather have Foster as a fourth contributor for all the intangibles he brings.
    T.J. Ford: Let him go, way obviously.
    James Posey: Might as well be the Kool-Aid man.

    What's available out there? Not worth the time and energy to analyze every scenario.

    What's needed?

    -- Another wing that can consistently put the ball in the bucket.
    -- Another big man that can score down low. Has to have some cajones and girth, unlike our 7-foot-2 center.
    -- Either an impact PG to supplant Collison, or a very credible backup.

  20. #64

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Some seem ready to give up on Roy. I am not. For one the guy works hard. He will improve. This was only his third year in the league. Big men usually take a little longer to develop. Plus who are the Pacers going to get to replace him? I am not saying that Roy doesn't need to step up big time next season but when you consider his skills, talents, and who else the Pacers can get to play center Roy is one of the last guys I want to see traded.

    There is no doubt that the Pacers need another quality big man though. They need someone with size who is VERY physical.

    Paul George was one of the most impressive players in the series. His focus on defense was outstanding.

    Danny Granger impressed me too. He showed up to play every game of the series. Overall Darren Collison impressed me with his play as well.

    This series highlighted the Pacers need for another scorer. Not much more to say on that.

    The two things that weight most on my mind have nothing to do with players.

    One is Frank Vogel should be back as head coach. He earned it. Halfway through the season I wasn't for sure. Looking at it though I think he deserves to be named head coach. Don't even bother interviewing someone else. Interviewing other coaches sends a message that you are not sold on Vogel and I guess I am. This series has given this team an identity to work with.

    The whole situation with Larry bothers me. I think he has earned the right to come back. I believe he has done an outstanding job with this team. The rumors worry me because it makes me wonder what has gone on behind the scenes. I just want to see some stability and believe that if Larry wants to come back he deserves to.

  21. #65
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    7,351

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Young View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Some seem ready to give up on Roy. I am not. For one the guy works hard. He will improve. This was only his third year in the league. Big men usually take a little longer to develop. Plus who are the Pacers going to get to replace him? I am not saying that Roy doesn't need to step up big time next season but when you consider his skills, talents, and who else the Pacers can get to play center Roy is one of the last guys I want to see traded.


    I think he'll be a center who, in the Playoffs can log 26-30 minutes per game and play very well, but he needs a lot of help at the backup center spot who can rebound and hit a high percentage of shots around the rim. A guy with a lot of mass. Someone like Marcin Gortat or Chuck Hayes.

    A modern day Shaq minus the injuries fits the bill perfectly as a 'polar opposite' to Roy.

  22. #66
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,641

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksRGarbage View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "I'm not mad about it," McRoberts said. "He got a good hit on me. They caught me trying to hit him back.

    "It's part of the game. I'm not going to say it's dirty. That's Game 5 of a playoff series. You can't say it's dirty, it's part of basketball."


    Kind of a slap in the face to Danny if you ask me. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I stuck up for one of my teammates in a situation like this and they say something like Josh did.

    Anyway, I am way excited about the future of our team.
    I have no problem with what McBob said and don't see it as a slap in the face after Granger stood up for him. If anything, McBob is taking the high road here and is saying what everyone else is saying...that this is the Playoffs and this is expected.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  23. #67
    Member ilive4sports's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    6,861

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    There is a lot to like with this team. Some of our players have a bright future, some have a very bright future (Paul George is going to be special). Some are what you see is what you get.

    Maybe I was overrating Danny the past few years, but I really feel like this series showed who I have been supporting all along. He elevated his level of play this series. Not even Reggie would have won us this series. The problem isn't Danny, it never was. Is his shot selection great? No, its much better on Vogel and this whole notion that he doesn't drive needs to be dispelled because it's simply not true. He will always be a guy who in transition, takes a quick three. The misses bother you a lot, but he hits them regularly and they are huge momentum shots too. Danny is a damn good player. Kerr kept saying he isn't a superstar, and he is right. But only a handful of players are superstars. And even those superstars can't do it alone. Not Kobe, not LeBron, not Dwight, not Wade. So it is really time that management gets Danny the help he needs so we can get it done.

    I get all tingly inside when I think of Paul George's future. He reminds me so much of Tracy McGrady (I'M NOT SAYING HE WILL BE TRACY OR AVERAGE 30PPG). I'm saying he has a similar flow to his offense. I think his ceiling is higher than Danny's and he has the work ethic to reach it. Year three will be his year. Next year is too soon though. I think his offense will come a long way, but its not time to ask him to be that second offensive option. Just keep up the great defense Paul. You will be an All NBA defender sooner than later.

    Right now we have a team full of third options to pair with Danny. At times each can be a second option, hell sometimes they can be the first option. But none are consistent enough to be the second option. This is Collison/Hansbrough/Hibbert. Darren is the most consistent and is a good young point guard. He has his faults. But I do think he can run the offense (can we give him a coach for more than a few months). His mid range jumper is deadly. He can knock down threes. He can attack the basket. He is a scoring PG. He's more Russell Westbrook than Steve Nash. Well his defense is more Nash than Westbrook but thats another story. But he can run the offense. He won't be feeding the post because he is too short. But he can create offense with his speed. He is young and deserves a full season under one coach who has been here since the off season before we say he can't be the answer. He had a great game one and half of game 2 before he went out.

    Hansbrough should be starting. I don't care what the numbers are between him and McRoberts. When I see him on the court, he gives us a reliable scoring option that the starters need. You need to improve your starting line up before you improve the bench. I would have liked to see more post ups with him in the post season. I feel like he was just given jumpers when he clearly wasn't hitting them. But credit Chicago because they are a great defensive team and I think they bothered him. With Hansbrough in the starting line up, we have a better chance at winning when Roy is useless than we do with McRoberts. Is Hans the answer at PF? Probably not. He is better suited being the first big off the bench, but thats not behind McRoberts.

    And this leads us to Hibbert. I love Roy. I see so much potential in his game. He is very skilled. But man, he needs to hit the gym hard this summer. He did great at losing weight. And he is better for it. He needed to lose that fat. But now he needs to put on muscle. He needs it everywhere honestly, but especially in his legs and his core. He can't be pushed off the block anymore. He has to be able to finish at the rim. He has the skill to do so, but he lacks the strength right now. With his old weight he was more comfortable down there, but losing it threw him off his game. As the season went on and he just kept losing weight (what was he, in the 250lbs area in this series?) and thats why his first month was so good. He was at his strongest then. So hit the weights this off season big fella.

    I feel like the rest of the roster is what you see what you get. Will AJ ever be a point guard again? He seemed to get worse as the season went on. I hope he can get back to playing point guard, but to me, he is a third string PG. It doesn't help that the second unit isn't really a scoring threat, but he didn't even attempt to run the offense. Dunleavy, I mean we could do worse, but at best he is a back up SF. Check the market and see whats out there before resigning him to a reasonable contract. Bring Foster back if he doesn't retire. He is a great person to have on your roster. Rush is well, we saw he barely played when it mattered. There is a reason for that. DJ is DJ too. Someone to keep because he plays great defense and can be a spark off the bench.

    I know some will hate me for this, but McRoberts is pretty much the player that he will be. He doesn't have post skills. He isn't a good defender. He isn't a rebounder. He's Mike Dunleavy at the PF position. He does some good stuff, but ultimately you want more from your PF, starter or back up. I wouldn't be upset if we didn't resign him. At least Foster will rebound and defend to make up his offensive liability. McRoberts is good for ball movement. He is a big at the end of the bench you go too when the rest are in foul trouble.

    Ultimately we need a consistent second option. Thats why I want to see someone like Jamal Crawford brought in to play off the bench. Someone who can give us 25 mins in a rotation with Paul George and Danny Granger. We need another guy to take pressure of Roy and Collison. We need another veteran too. Also we need a PF. But I don't know if one is out there. Randolph is staying in Memphis and West probably wont be an FA with his knee injury. Not sure who we could get in a trade to solve the problems either, but they need to be a defender and a rebounder. That way we have him paired with Roy who isn't a defender/rebounder guy and we have Hans, a scorer, paired with Foster.

    There is a lot to like about this team. They certainly have the heart and character. That goes a long way. I think we have a coach too. Keep Frank here. The team likes and respects him and he coaches with common sense. I don't always agree with him 100%, but there isn't a coach that exists out there that I do. So lock him up for a few years Larry and get to work on a starting PF and back up SG who can score.

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ilive4sports For This Useful Post:


  25. #68

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Rush is cut from the same bolt of cloth as his brothers. It well could be Brandon will be spoken about in the near future as Kareem in "where are they now?"

    I truly regret the Pacers lost out on the Bobcats trade for Augustin, Henderson, and Nazr for Ford and Rush.
    Any trade for Rush would have been good but it's too late now to get value.

Similar Threads

  1. Pacers rocky road to playoffs
    By 90'sNBARocked in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-12-2011, 03:45 PM
  2. Playoffs and winning in the playoffs
    By TheDon in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02-25-2011, 08:31 AM
  3. Bob Kravitz: Playoffs aren't in picture this season for Pacers
    By 90'sNBARocked in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 10-27-2010, 11:48 PM
  4. 10 things we learned in the NBA this week
    By Suaveness in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-08-2005, 07:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •