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Thread: Things we learned from the playoffs

  1. #26
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    The biggest thing I learned was that if you took Derrick Rose and put him on the Pacers roster, the Pacers would be a 62-win team.

    Seriously, the Pacers and Bulls teams are so similar. Granger showed he can defend, score, and pass like Deng. Noah was more consistent than Roy but they play a similar type of game. I think the PFs of both teams were up and down all series but overall they were pretty even. Paul George and Keith Bogins are excellent defenders who each had a game or two where they had a positive offensive output.

    The Pacers need a player like DRose that is quick enough and strong enough to get in the lane and cause havoc. Having an extra shooter like Korver would help a lot as well.

    I look at this as a positive. The Pacers aren't that far away from being a contending team. A player like a healthy Baron Davis (not that such a thing really exists) would really go a long way.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  2. #27
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    While Dun was not effective this postseason, I'd love to see what he's capable of with an offense built from training camp around the other guys with him as a piece.

    I would not chase him or anything, but he is still the only guy on the team willing to catch and shoot, so if he comes back at a reasonable price (same with Foster) I'd be hesitant to dump him.

    I think we really need a player with a consistent shot that doesn't require teammates to get him space. Whether it is a post shot, a midrange, or a long jumper doesn't matter, I just want someone who, when he gets the ball, I have a reasonable chance of thinking "that ball is going in the hoop".

    I don't like the idea of a raw coach plus a raw team, but Vogel is more than just an assistant who got lucky. He's a hard worker and will spend the summer learning from his mistakes. His biggest challenges if he gets rehired will be working with a shortened training camp after a lockout AND handling adversity in the team if they come out of the gate badly.

    I learned that having Charles Barkley say nice things about the Pacers is the Kiss of Death...
    BillS

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  3. #28
    Batman's New Side Kick Psyren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Sadly, I agree on Roy as well.

    I think he is what he is, which isn't necessarily bad. He's better than quite a few centers in the league. But I don't think he'll ever improve. He's about as soft of a big man as you could ever find, both mentally and physically. His hands are awful. He gets happy feet every time he touches the ball. And is a horrid, horrid rebounder considering his size.

    Yes, some of that can be fixed. But will it get fixed? I doubt it.

    Others:

    DG: Really brought me back on board to his game, with the exception of last night. He was awful so many times. As a series though, I really liked what I saw.

    DC: Still like the kid, but not sure he's the answer. However, I'm willing to wait it out.

    PG: Absolutely love this kid. Has a really good motor, shows excellent defensive skills, and will be a stud once his shot starts to fall and he tightens up his handles.

    Tyler: As Peck said, I didn't think his season was great, but I want him back. Toughness like that is hard to find.

    Jeff: Always loved him, still do. Tough as nails, and if he hangs it up, I'll certainly miss him. If he wants to come back, he's always got a roster spot if I were running the team.

    Brandon: Awful. Like usual. No surprise here. Sorry Rush fans, but he still sucks.

    Dunleavy: I could take him or leave him, but I lean towards leaving him. If he shot isn't falling, he doesn't do much for us. Yes he's smart offensively, but man was he non existent in this series.

    AJ: Agree with Peck. Either needs to re-learn to play PG, or get off this team. Just horrid play, but I have family that follows UCONN heavily, and I know he can play PG. He was good at PG. Hopefully he can fix whatever the hell happened this year.

    Josh: Still not very impressed with him, but I want him around simply because of his age. Could still develop into something good.

    TJ: I add TJ in for only one reason. To thank him for being such a classy professional. When DC went down, he was ready to step right in no questions asked and actually played pretty well. He's never once complained to my knowledge, and just seems like one of those genuine, great people. I'm not a big fan of his play, but I can't thank him enough for how well he handled his time here. A true class act, and guys like that are hard to find.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

  4. #29
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by MTM View Post
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    Thanks Peck for a fantastic post. In the interest of debate, I would argue that in terms of fighting against a superior opponent and trying to pull every ounce of talent from an over-matched roster, there was one other time a Pacers team did it better than this year's team: 1991 Pacers vs. Celtics.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bird_person_game5.html
    Thank you and I agree!
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  5. #30
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I want Jordan Williams of Maryland or another wide low post presence.

    I want time for this team to grow together and mature.

    I want someone to step up to slow down DRose in the next couple years.

    I also want Jeff back, in anything, just to give the Bulls fans something to moan about next year.

    I want another 15-20 pounds of muscle on Roy... in the legs and butt. And for him to learn to turn right.

    I want PG and Rush to develop, esp. PG to become our #2 scorer, work on his handles, and have the confidence in creating his shot...

    I want Vogel to be up late at night over obsessions with the last 5 minutes of games.

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    Member BobbyMac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I don't think the Pacers should give up on Roy, He reminds me a lot of Rik Smits and it took Rik several years to become a top center.

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  8. #32
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    I don't think the Pacers should give up on Roy, He reminds me a lot of Rik Smits and it took Rik several years to become a top center.
    I think we should've started Greg Dreiling.
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  9. #33

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I don't understand. For me, Rush played well in the little time he did it. He is not a star SG, but he is a glue player, good defense and 3pt shooting.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    While Dun was not effective this postseason, I'd love to see what he's capable of with an offense built from training camp around the other guys with him as a piece.
    Please God nooooooooo

  11. #35
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMac View Post
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    I don't think the Pacers should give up on Roy, He reminds me a lot of Rik Smits and it took Rik several years to become a top center.

    I think the Pacers have given up on Rush, but not on Roy. But that doesn't mean that the pacers should not look to trade Roy. lets see what we can get for him. if we don't like the trade offers, OK then lets keep him until he either gets good enough that we want to keep him or he gets good enough that his trade value increases. of course if we do keep him too long and his trade value decreases, then we lose out.

  12. #36
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I don't think we should "give up" on Roy per se, but at the same time, I'd ship him out in a heartbeat if it were in a deal that significantly upgraded our post presence.

    I know DC is just a second year player, but I would get rid of him too if the right deal came along. He wastes so many seconds off the shot clock with unnecessary dribbling and moves that have no benefit. So frustrating to watch. It seems like so many possessions were wasted this series by his dribbling around. Then you all of the sudden only have 11 seconds left on the shot clock and we end up getting a horrible, rushed shot.

    Rush is completely worthless. I'm someone that was high on Rush two years ago when he had a strong finish to his rookie season but the guy has had NO IMPROVEMENT WHATSOEVER. He sucks as far as I (and it seems like most here) are concerned. He had the starting position handed to him on a silver platter and now can barely get off the bench. Sad.

    George is definitely the guy I'm most excited about. If he develops a consistent offense game then whoa. He will probably be our second best player very soon, though I am always kind of leery about a team who's best two players are wing players if those players aren't named Jordan and Pippen.

    This was basically Hansbrough's rookie season for all practical purposes and I generally liked what I saw. He is a hard worker who we know will be working on his game nonstop all summer and I'm confident we will see improvement. It seems to me like he played like crap this series the moment he hit his head.

    Dahntay should get more minutes next year. Don't care one way or another if McRoberts is back. We should not spend a dime on Dunleavy. This series proved that, IMO.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 04-27-2011 at 10:57 AM.

  13. #37
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    One thing I leanred is that the Chicago Sun Time's Bulls coverage is much much better than the Chicago Tribune's Bulls coverage. What happened to the Tribune - maybe it is just their online stuff, but it is really lacking. I remember back in the 90's buying the Trib. to read about the Bulls and the playoffs.

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  15. #38
    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I echo what most have said another minus from this team is James Posey who was brought in to show leadership and showed anything but that. Eat his contract if you must with the cap space the Pacers have, I want him having no part in the youth of this teams development.

    Roy Hibbert to me showed he is Rik Smits without the consistant long range shot 17-20 feet. Smits needed the Davis' to cover his weaknesses much as Roy needs the banger type to play alongside him. If you can get a more physical big man to play alongside Roy keep him , otherwise look into moving him for a more physical big at 25 , Roy's trade value will likely never be better.

    Tyler to me is the perfect 6th man , come in and carry a team for a few minutes of the bench playing with energy. Hopefully with a healthy summer Tyler will be able to improve his all around game.

    Darren Collison the jury is still out on , but when you consider his youth and speed he could very well improve to a 6-10 range point guard in this league. BUT his defense must greatly improve even more so than his offense.

    Danny played better than I expected but he needs to refocus on defense too often he got lost on his man . Danny is too good a player to be mediocre at best on defense.

    Paul George needs to work on his ball handling , he also needs to limit his shooting of the 3. Paul's games is 20 feet and in , tightning up his ball handling will enable him to use his quickness and size to punish other shooting guards going to the hole. From what we saw defensively from Paul in the playoffs , I was reminded of Scottie Pippen a player type I can see him becoming. At 21, in a couple weeks Paul has the dreaded word potential to be a top level 2-way player in the NBA for 12-15 years and prove the scouts correct in saying he would be the best player from the 2010 NBA Draft.

    Never a Jeff Foster fan I give him props for giving his all as a leader , showing the youth of this team what the playoffs are and how you play in them. His hardnose play and aggressiveness was the example to them all what it means to play, playoff basketball. If Jeff wants to comeback re-sign him short term but remember you are signing him as a 10-12 minute a night player.

    Dahntay Jones , to me is a 10-15 minute a night player. I still see his defense as over-rated but he can be a true spark off the bench when he tempers being a black hole on offense.

    Josh McRoberts if he is back fine if not its not the end of the world. Josh will give you effort but to me is a true liability on defense . If Foster isn't back I'd be more likely to re-sign Josh.

    B. Rush is an enigma who seems destined to always be one. He just seems to lack any real desire to be more than a player who has ability but doesn't care. He has had chances for 3 years now and to me has shown no improvement at all . Deal him for basicly anything you can get at this point.

    Lance Stephenson has skills but at 20 its time he matured. To me you bring him back hopefully after doing nothing but watching the playoffs humbled him a little and will drive him to work on his game both physically and mentally if not the rope of keeping him is very short.

    A J Price if he is going to have a long NBA career he must realize he is a back up point , his job is get the ball to other players . Not to lead the team in FGA's per minutes played. Price seems to think he is a shooting guard problem is he can not survive in the NBA with that mindset. We need an upgrade at back up point guard so to me if he is back its as the 3rd point guard.

    TJ Ford, Dunleavy, and Solo Jones thanks for the effort you gave here hopefully tey catch on somewhere they all seem to be class guys.

    This summer the Pacers have cap space and are coming of an impressive Playoff effort vs. the Bulls ; whoever is in charge has an opportunity to continue to build the Pacers toward what they were just a frew years ago, A solid 50+ win team and a challenger every year. This is a summer that must not go by without major improvement they may not have the opportunity again if they don't make the next step now.
    Last edited by diamonddave00; 04-27-2011 at 11:05 AM.

  16. #39
    Member PR07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    -It's clear we need a big man with some brute strength who can move some people around. I'm not taking about Psycho T strength, but a big guy with a big frame who can handle some physical players down low.

    Nene would be a great fit, but I'm curious to see what his contract range is, as he might be out of ours...given that Hibbert and Hansbrough should command a lot of minutes as well.

    -Foster should be back. I'd like to see McRoberts come back and have him play a lot of Foster's minutes in the regular season to keep Feisty fresh. However, come playoff time, I'd have Foster essentially take McRoberts minutes as the second big off the bench (assuming we can get a bruiser).

    -Hibbert and McRoberts have to get stronger

    -Paul George needs to gain better handles and get stronger^

    -Rush is a goner. He has the tools, but he lacks the aggressiveness and is seemingly out of the Pacers' plans it looks like.

    -Pure shooter off the bench (maybe Rush ends up this guy because of no better options). I thought Dunleavy may be the guy after a nice Game 1, but he was pretty bad the rest of the series. His lack of aggressiveness in Game 5 was brutal, and his missing FT's in Game 4 almost cost us the game.

    -I like AJ Price as a backup PG. Some of his decisionmaking was horrible, but I think some of you guys are being too hard on him. Outside of Danny, did anyone hit more "big shots" this series? I like the confidence and swagger from him as a backup PG.

  17. #40
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    One thing I leanred is that the Chicago Sun Time's Bulls coverage is much much better than the Chicago Tribune's Bulls coverage. What happened to the Tribune - maybe it is just their online stuff, but it is really lacking. I remember back in the 90's buying the Trib. to read about the Bulls and the playoffs.


    Most newspapers in general have become bland corporately owned crap.

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  19. #41
    Stay focused SMosley21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    If there is one thing, other than that the Pacers are awesome, that I took away from this series it is that Chicago Bulls fans are some of the whiniest/fake tough fans in all of sports.
    Grown Man Ball

  20. #42
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I learned...

    It's pretty amazing what Vogel did with this team in 3 months. Let's find out what he can do with a whole summer.

    Don't trade Granger, unless you're absolutely getting an unquestionable upgrade back.

    Make Roy Hibbert available in every trade negotiation that could possibly land us someone of equal or greater talent to Granger.

    Keep Paul George at all costs.

    Continue to look to upgrade the PG position, don't be afraid to move Collison if it can get a solid deal done.

    Hansbrough is OK, but probably better suited off the bench in a long term role.

    Don't resign Josh. We can find another athlete just like him.

    Carlos Boozer's contract will cripple this group of Bulls chances of ever actually winning a championship.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  22. #43
    A happy Roy is a good Roy DaveP63's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Marginal Marv and Steve "Bulls" Kerr wear me out trying to figure out what they're saying through mouthfulls of Chicago pork.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    -Rush is a goner. He has the tools, but he lacks the aggressiveness and is seemingly out of the Pacers' plans it looks like.

    Rush is cut from the same bolt of cloth as his brothers. It well could be Brandon will be spoken about in the near future as Kareem in "where are they now?"

    I truly regret the Pacers lost out on the Bobcats trade for Augustin, Henderson, and Nazr for Ford and Rush.

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  25. #45

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Dahntay Jones has another gear.

    Great post.

    I have seen this twice within the last 24 hours. I don't know where this idea is coming from, but Dahntay is in year 2 of a "4" year contract. He has 2 years left on his contract with the 4th year a player option year at 2.9 mil.

    Dahntay can be frustrating at times, but he's worth the salary.

  26. #46
    Member Reginald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksRGarbage View Post
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    ...am very frustrated by the comments made by josh after game 5 regarding his ejection...Kind of a slap in the face to Danny if you ask me. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I stuck up for one of my teammates in a situation like this and they say something like Josh did.
    I'm not a McRoberts fan, but I think you're reading way too much into it. If anything, Josh took the high road and Danny just needs to shut up.

  27. #47
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    The hate for hibbert around here is just crazy. The man is 25 years old.. Not 35. The center position takes longer to fully develop than any other position. Also most act as if good quality centers grow on trees and they most certainly do not.

    Roy is still a young center. Why trade Roy now and have him become dominant on another team? We are going to have to continue to be patient with him, after all patience is what got us to the current bright state of the team right now.
    GO PACERS!!!

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  29. #48
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
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    I'm not a McRoberts fan, but I think you're reading way too much into it. If anything, Josh took the high road and Danny just needs to shut up.
    Bingo
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  30. #49
    Stay focused SMosley21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Rush is cut from the same bolt of cloth as his brothers. It well could be Brandon will be spoken about in the near future as Kareem in "where are they now?"

    I truly regret the Pacers lost out on the Bobcats trade for Augustin, Henderson, and Nazr for Ford and Rush.
    A lot of people, including myself, already as that question about Brandon.
    Grown Man Ball

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    Member PR07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    A lot of people, including myself, already as that question about Brandon.
    The thing is, Brandon is a better player than his brother, and should at least stick around the league quite a bit longer because he's an above average defender and a more consistent shooter. The problem is, he could be a lot more than this! Sometimes, you just forget he's on the court. If he's fallen out of favor with Vogel, a player's coach, then maybe he just doesn't what it takes.

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