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Thread: Things we learned from the playoffs

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Things we learned from the playoffs

    Sorry guys I just don't have it in me to crank out an Odd Thoughts tonight. Not depressed per say but just sad that it came to an end. Love our team.

    I'll say that again because for the first time since 2000 I can say I love our team without reservation. There are improvements that can be made of course but I don't want the fact that I'm going to talk about things in what we have learned to diminish the fact that I love our team.

    What have we learned?

    Danny Granger has another gear. This has been the question that many of us have asked for six seasons now, is what you get from Danny during the regular season the best he can play or does he have another notch to turn to on his post season dial. I think the answer is, yes he does. Many people are talking about needing a closer or getting a higher scorer and Danny can be second fiddle. Sure if someone wants to drop one of those superstar closers on our team who am I to complain. But since these people don’t grow on tree’s we are going to have to be realistic and try and build with Danny. To some people this will be a horror filled thought that will induce nausea and vomiting. But to me I still believe we can advance with Danny being the best player. How far can we advance? I don’t know but if he had a solid team around him I think he will be fine.

    Dahntay Jones has another gear. Yes his offense is as subtle as a Sherman tank and yes he looks to pass as often as A.J. Price does (which is not very often) but he and Tyler & Jeff for that matter share one trait in common. They have a high motor and it is constantly running. His defense, which he has been the subject of scorn for months by some, was in full display in the three games he played and not once was he found wanting. No, he is never going to be anything more than a good solid rotational bench player but there is no way this guy should not be in a rotation. Some people wilt in the playoff spotlight, D. Jones is not one of them.

    Paul George has another defensive gear, for certain. I’ll just go ahead now and say that games 2 – 4 his defense was at an elite level. He pestered, harassed, bumped and bothered Rose into poor shooting performances. Sadly game 5 he sort of slipped off, but still slipping off from where he was just brought him down to just being good on defense. His offense is going to need some work, but right now his defense is already there.

    Darren Collison might have another gear, although I’m not sure. Sadly due to injury, you know the one that wasn’t the subject of every single reporters and analyst commentary, we will probably not know how effective he could have been this series. However he did not embarrass himself this series. I still worry greatly about his height and his court vision. But overall he played well enough throughout this for me to at least not be panicked about the point guard spot.

    Tyler Hansbrough…. This is a tough one. I don’t want to say that he does not have another gear, yet I’m also forced to make certain that I don’t say he does. He had one good game, one great game, two less than stellar games and one horrid game. I’ll take into consideration that he is a first time playoff person and still has never had a year of solid steady min. so I think I’m just going to say I don’t know about him yet.

    Jeff Foster has another gear, but we knew that already. Not much more I can say that hasn’t been repeated ad nauseam about Jeff but its safe to say that if he wants to return to the club he will be welcomed back with open arms. Again though, it is imperative to start looking for Jeff’s replacement now, not later. He is getting very long in the tooth and with his back I don’t think it is right to expect him to play big min. during the regular season.

    Ok, now we start to talk about what we have learned but really probably did not want to know.

    Roy Hibbert in this series anyway showed he has no other gear and in fact might have stripped the gears a couple of times during this game alone. It’s bad enough in the regular season that whenever a team decides to get physical with Roy that he sometimes wilts and on rare occasions he come through. But in the playoffs where every game is going to be a war and the deeper you get into the playoffs the better the oppositions center is going to be I’ll just say that I’m really worried. In fact, sad to admit this but Roy’s inadequacy’s make it so that we really need to look at a different type of power forward. While both Tyler & Josh are fine by themselves neither of them is going to be able to hand the very physical centers that Roy is not going to be able to handle. So much like Rik Smits needed Dale Davis I think Roy is going to need a big bulky power forward to either work along side him or replace him when he goes to the bench.

    Mike Dunleavy has been found wanting. Ok, I’ll admit it now. I was very disappointed with Mike’s playoff debut. I honestly thought he would be the offensive spark that we need coming off of the bench. However there is a sad truth here that some are not going to like. The playoffs are more physical and athletic than the regular season and players like Mike are at a disadvantage. He’s not a deadeye shooter like Korver so he can’t milk that from his game. Maybe vs. a different team he could have been more effective but my honest opinion now that I have seen him play in the playoffs is that Mike really is always going to struggle with big min. Not saying he can’t contribute but can you really think of one game where you looked back and said “man we need to get Dunleavy in there”.

    A.J. Price needs to be deprogrammed and sent to a new training camp with a new coach. If it’s Vogel fine if it’s whoever else our coach is fine as well. But this guy has got to learn to be a point guard again. Yes I appreciate the shots he hit at home he hit some big ones. But overall this guy just has almost given up on running an offense and has just decided to be a destitute man’s Allen Iverson. I’m blaming this on being forced into Lucifer’s service for a year and a half and two training camps under him. His defense was ok, but not stellar. But my God the offense is just abysmal when he is in there. Yes, I know he doesn’t have a lot of choices but still.

    Josh McRoberts is also a quandary. Why oh why are they keeping whatever is wrong with his leg a secret? It was obvious tonight, and every night for that matter, Josh could not elevate. With that in mind we just got a dose of what Josh must work on to stay in the NBA for a good amount of time. Some day the legs will fail you, now is the time to work on positioning, leverage and strength. No you are never going to be Kevin Willis but you have got to get some more upper body strength and start learning better rebounding techniques. Like Tyler I’m giving Josh an incomplete for this series due to injury.

    Brandon Rush, I almost forgot to do Brandon but then I found the irony in that to be that I often forget Brandon is on the floor. Brandon’s dwindling playing time during this series said all that needed to be said. Hit a couple of shots but other than that, Meh.

    I want to leave on an upbeat note and I’m going to do it by making a bold statement that I know many will disagree with.

    First the complimentary background statement. I have seen every playoff game the Indiana Pacers have ever played in during their tenure in the NBA. I have been to every home playoff game that we have ever played minus two games (so yes Uncle Buck has me beaten by one). I say all of that to say this.

    This was the best performance in the playoffs by our club that I have ever seen based on the talent & experience available. That includes the great years of 94-2000.

    Now hold on before your eyes totally pop out of your skull let me clarify. Never have I seen a team come so far in such a little time with so little experience and no star power at all to battle a team toe to toe game to game (minus the last one) than I have with this team.

    Sure we have fielded better teams in fact we have fielded a lot better teams. But each of them had something that this team did not have and that is both experience and star power.

    Look back over this series and think to yourself for a moment. Other than Danny night in and night out giving you a good game what one player stood out to you every night? In fact there were several nights if you looked at the box score you were probably trying to figure out how we stayed so close, let alone have a lead for most of the games.

    We fought as a team and we fought well enough that legitimately we can talk about being disappointed that we didn’t split the series. Think about that again for a min. we were the worst team in the playoffs they were the best. Game five’s outcome should have by all rights been at least 3 or 4 more of those games outcomes.

    I give credit to the players for laying it on the line and I of course once again will give credit to Frank Vogel.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Not saying he can’t contribute but can you really think of one game where you looked back and said “man we need to get Dunleavy in there”.
    I will absolutely say Mike's production in the series was horrid. And that is keeping it nicely. But I have to say during that horrible 6 game losing streak towards the end of the season the offense jsut wasn't moving like it did when he was in there. I did tell my g/f "They could use Mike so bad right now" a few times. Not necessarily for his scoring, but he does help the offense flow.

    And this is a very great post.
    Last edited by Constellations; 04-27-2011 at 05:06 AM.
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we should have went with a different strategy though. Since the whole team have a skill they are good at and none of them are stars, why not start brandon rush and dahnte jones over Granger and George. Sound crazy? Well you have Jones on Rose and Rush on Deng. Jones harrased Rose, Rush is a pretty good defender. He could keep deng under control. That isnt the point tho. Once Rose and Deng come out thats when you bring in Danny And George. Danny wouldnt have to defend Deng and he wouldnt have deng guarding him. He would have had an advantage and would have probibly scored more points. If rose didnt come out, which he doesnt alot George still could have guarded him. Im half asleep so this probibly isnt coming out right, but basically I feel like Jones and rush are good enough on defense to keep the bulls from scoring alot and both of them can score good enough. Between DC, Jones, Rush, Hibbert and Tyler I see it as they could end the 1st quarter of games close. Something like 22-20 thus bringing in granger and george against the bulls second unit, still having good defense on the court and more offense...Over all tho we played alot better than anyone expected. Everyone had the broom out and we could have easily swept them if we can close the game. The whole series all i could think about was the Josh Mcbob for OJ Mayo trade that didnt go down. If that would have went down, I think we win this series...good play pacers.
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Great, great post.

    Things that we learned from the playoffs?

    I learned that Paul George will likely be a cornerstone of this franchise for many, many years to come. And, I don't care if his offensive game does not develop one bit (though I'm sure it will, many times over).

    The kid just defended (arguably) the toughest cover in the entire Association and did it with such remarkable tenacity, length and foot speed that I was absolutely amazed by his progression. Sure, Rose got his in the end, but I think George defended him just about as well as anybody on the planet could and the kid's only 20! That is big-time defense on a big-time stage. Another gear, for sure.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I dont know what I learned. But it seemed as though the Pacer's team learned alot. The postgame locker room interviews pumped me up.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/originals/

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    I dont know what I learned. But it seemed as though the Pacer's team learned alot. The postgame locker room interviews pumped me up.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/originals/
    Roy's interview left me with the impression that he understands how important he is to this team. He knows he let his teammates down. He hears the criticism, he understands it's warranted. That gives me hope that we'll see him work his tail off to become a better player this summer. I know he's incredibly frustrating at times, and I'm sure a lot of Pacers fans are ready to give up on him, but if anyone gets it, it's Roy.

    Danny exemplified everything I want from a leader. During the regular season, he might have taken some plays (or even games) off. He wasn't always the most vocal or even the most visible, unless he was taking a bad shot. But this is where leaders are made and Danny answered the call. "He elbowed two of my power forwards..." Yes, Danny. It's clearly your team now. If you were advertised as the leader before, it was by default. Now, you've earned it. Now let's get you some help.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    That Bulls fans seem to harbor such strong vitriol for Danny makes me even happier about his presence on the team.

    Also, in an attempt to refrain from negativity, I will only say that I have much concern about Roy's role on the team for the foreseeable future.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Mike Dunleavy has been found wanting. Ok, I’ll admit it now. I was very disappointed with Mike’s playoff debut. I honestly thought he would be the offensive spark that we need coming off of the bench. However there is a sad truth here that some are not going to like. The playoffs are more physical and athletic than the regular season and players like Mike are at a disadvantage. He’s not a deadeye shooter like Korver so he can’t milk that from his game. Maybe vs. a different team he could have been more effective but my honest opinion now that I have seen him play in the playoffs is that Mike really is always going to struggle with big min. Not saying he can’t contribute but can you really think of one game where you looked back and said “man we need to get Dunleavy in there”.
    No to be a d*** or anything, but this is pretty much what I predicted was going to happen, there was not need for him to play at all, Vogel should had play DJ since the beginning.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Roy Hibbert in this series anyway showed he has no other gear and in fact might have stripped the gears a couple of times during this game alone. It’s bad enough in the regular season that whenever a team decides to get physical with Roy that he sometimes wilts and on rare occasions he come through. But in the playoffs where every game is going to be a war and the deeper you get into the playoffs the better the oppositions center is going to be I’ll just say that I’m really worried. In fact, sad to admit this but Roy’s inadequacy’s make it so that we really need to look at a different type of power forward. While both Tyler & Josh are fine by themselves neither of them is going to be able to hand the very physical centers that Roy is not going to be able to handle. So much like Rik Smits needed Dale Davis I think Roy is going to need a big bulky power forward to either work along side him or replace him when he goes to the bench.


    This. What he said. Roy = Charmin.

    And, despite what Spazzxxb wanted to say in my previous thread about Hibs, it pains to me face this reality. I had very high hopes for Roy on draft night a few years ago, but I think he has reached his potential.

    My love of Granger increased in this series and I'm pretty excited about George. I loves me some Dahntay Jones, too.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Nice post!

    Here's what I believe I've learned. These are the guys on the current roster I definitely want to see back:

    -DG
    -PG
    -DJ
    -TH
    -JF (unless he decides to hang it up)

    Nobody of the remainder has impressed me to the point where I would be disappointed if they weren't back. Certainly, Roy and DC are borderline guys who might yet improve, but each has key core weaknesses that I'm not sure more experience can rectify - Roy's physical strength/athletic challenges and Darren's mediocre or worse handles/vision/size.

    Nobody on the roster is off limits for a good deal though. DG really favorably impressed me in the series. That said, it does not change the fact that, given his skill set, on a mid-level playoff to contending team, his best role is offensive second option or option 1A, if you prefer.
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I have always been a Dunleavey fan and certainly not a Rush fan but both should be gone now. I would like to retain Foster and possibly McRob if he is very cheap, 2+M/year max but that's it. We need wings who can shoot and someone to help Roy who can't do it alone in the paint.
    Our best player was comparable to Deng who is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on Chicago's team but the pacers certainly gave us our money's worth this playoff so there is a lot to look forward to.

    We need a steal in free agency going forward.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Yes I'm disappointed in Roy's soft play, but I'm not ready to give up on our 25 year old center. Putting frustrations aside there is still time.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I think it would be incredibly shortsighted to close the book on Roy after his 3rd season, and 1st postseason. I don't want to lean on cheap cliches, but it takes big men longer to put it all together. Roy has put in alot of work to get better, and I think he'll do even more this offseason. He definitely needs to get stronger, which I think he will. We need to give Roy a little more time before assigning him to the 'he is what he is' category.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    If I were running the team, I would look hard at trading Roy. Not get rid of Roy, but trade Roy, and by trade I don't mean for a second round draft pick in 2029. But he probably has some pretty high trade value - likely third behind Danny and George. So package Roy with Brandon and see what we could get. Someone will ask me who do I have in mind? I don't know yet.

    So while I would see what we could get for Roy, I would do everything I could to trade Brandon. He brings nothing to our team that is unique, plus we have traded him twice already, so I would be shocked if he is back next season.


    Foster I would guess might be back, maybe 50/50. Dunleavy will not be back, he was a better fit with JOB's system, so he is gone.


    Tyler's best role? I don't know if you listened to Steve Kerr last night discuss what Vogel told him about Tyler, that is the whole team feeds off Tyler's energy - if you believe that and I do, in order for that to have a big influence on the team Tyler needs to start. Although in theory he would be great as an energy guy off the bench. But if we do trade Roy and bring in a more athletic big guy, I think Tyler can start.


    Danny and George I am fine with. Collison is the biggest question im my mind. He is only a second year player so he will get better, but the question is does he have the necessary upside to be what we need. if you assume Danny and Paul are locked in at the 2 and 3 - is Darren what we need? I have my serious doubts.


    So if we aren't going to get a player better than Danny, the bottonline is in order to be a championship contender, I think we need players better than Roy and darren. if somehow we can get a player better than danny, then sure Roy and Darren might be good enough. >>


    I am only looking at our top 8 players or so, players 9-12 I don't spend too much time worrying about -besiudes those players are not our problem. Josh coming off the bench for 15 minutes a game is fine. I will say I really don't want Price on the team next season - he's just not very good. Lance has talent, but too much baggage. Jones is fine for 15 minutes a game, if Jeff comes back and can play some that is fine.


    Ok, that is my off-the-top of my head evaluation of this team.


    I think Vogel deserves to be our coach, although if I were in charge I would go through the process, see who else is interested and also I would want to know what Vogel plans to do with this team when he has a full traning camp - what didn't he have time to install that he wanted to.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think Vogel deserves to be our coach, although if I were in charge I would go through the process, see who else is interested and also I would want to know what Vogel plans to do with this team when he has a full traning camp - what didn't he have time to install that he wanted to.
    I still have really mixed feelings on Vogel as coach. My heart says yes because of his dedication the last part of the season. But if Frank doesn't plan on bringing in a veteran coach to help on the bench then I'm not satisfied with his decision making.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    I still have really mixed feelings on Vogel as coach. My heart says yes because of his dedication the last part of the season. But if Frank doesn't plan on bringing in a veteran coach to help on the bench then I'm not satisfied with his decision making.

    That would be one of my questions I would ask Frank in the interview.

    As Kravitz said in his column this morning if Bird is out, then the new GM needs to bring hin his own coach, I will say that is 100% true, nothing worse then having a coach and GM not working together especially if the coach isn't the GM's choice.

    I think right now I am of the opinion to build our team around Granger and George, I think they can play together at the 2 and the 3. if George can guard rose, then George can guard any two guard.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-27-2011 at 09:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Granger played like an all star, George was a great defender, Jeff did some dirty work, Price played pretty fair... the rest were inconsistent

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I've learned that Vogel saved Bird, now is his decision and not Simon's for him to come back.

    I've learned that we need an starting point guard, we need to move DC to the bench and maybe keep price as a back up.

    I also think we need an starting center, just like UB said, we need to find a way to trade him for another center, maybe Al Jefferson or Nene.

    I think we are fine at SG and SF but still need to get better backups.

    At PF I think is expected for Tyler to get better now that he is healthy and can workout in the summer, if we can upgrade fine but I don't see PF as priority.

    At the end of the day I think we need an starting PG and Center and better backups at SG,SF,PF and Center.

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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    This was the best performance in the playoffs by our club that I have ever seen based on the talent & experience available. That includes the great years of 94-2000.
    Thanks Peck for a fantastic post. In the interest of debate, I would argue that in terms of fighting against a superior opponent and trying to pull every ounce of talent from an over-matched roster, there was one other time a Pacers team did it better than this year's team: 1991 Pacers vs. Celtics.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bird_person_game5.html

    Though the Pacers didn’t break through into the NBA elite until reaching the Eastern Conference Finals for the first time in 1994, they very nearly made their big move three years earlier. Coming off a 41-41 regular season, they entered the playoffs as the No. 7 seed against the No. 2 seeded, Atlantic Division champion Boston Celtics. Though they were aging, the Celtics still had Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish up front and a rising star named Reggie Lewis in the backcourt. The Pacers were led by Chuck Person, Reggie Miller and Detlef Schrempf. The teams produced one of the most thrilling first-round series in NBA Playoff history, with Boston surviving to win Game 5, and Person and Bird were center stage. Those two principles, reunited in the Pacers’ front office – Bird as President of Basketball Operations, Person as Assistant to the President/Player Relations – reflected on that memorable series as the Pacers prepared to face the Celtics in the first round of the 2004 Playoffs. The story is told in their words.

    Chuck Person and Larry Bird enjoyed a fierce rivalry through the late 1980s and early '90s.

    Chuck Person: ”We were young and inexperienced. Boston had the great leaders in Larry, Robert and Kevin. But we were young, fast and brash. With Micheal Williams running the point and Detlef and myself and Reggie, we had a lot of guys who could push and really score the ball. Defensively, we weren’t very good so we played a style that we thought we could win with.”

    Larry Bird: “They scored a lot of points. They were a run-and-gun type of team. They got the ball out and pushed it up the court. When they got into their set offense, they ran a high pick and put either Reggie or Chuck in the corner. Micheal Williams would come off a pick and when you came to give help, they hit the corner and scored. They almost beat us with that one play, but it was a tough play to defend.”

    Bird and Person enjoyed a fierce rivalry throughout their careers. Person was a brash, outspoken, trash-talker who wanted to get in Bird’s face. Bird was a quiet assassin who generally let his actions speak for him – although he could talk trash with the best of them. On one legendary late December night, Bird told Person before a game that he had a present for him. In the fourth quarter, after hitting a clutch 3-pointer, Bird turned to Person, who was seated on the Pacers’ bench, and said, “Merry Christmas.” Such was the nature of their rivalry.

    Chuck Person: “I don’t know if Larry remembers, but my first game in the pros was against him in Terre Haute and he said, ‘Young fella, when you come out to play, play hard every night or you’ll get embarrassed – especially by me.’ That gave me extra incentive to play hard against Larry. My first regular-season game against Larry he had something like 40 points, 20 rebounds and 15 assists, so I told myself I had to come out and play as hard as I possibly could every night.”

    Larry Bird: “The thing about Chuck, no matter if it was the regular season or the playoffs, he came to play. I think he played harder against me than anybody else, but it was good. In this league, a lot of times the players don’t give you any resistance. But when you played against Chuck, you knew you had to play and you had to play hard – and if you didn’t play well, they’d probably beat you.”

    Boston won a tight Game 1 at home, 127-120, with Bird struggling to a 6 of 20 shooting night but nonetheless producing a 21-point, 12-rebound, 12-assist triple-double. Person scored 23 points with eight rebounds and seven assists. Then came the stunner, with the Pacers winning Game 2 in Boston Garden 130-118 as Person racked up 39 points, including a team playoff record of seven 3-pointers. With a chance to take control of the series at home, however, the Pacers dropped Game 3 in Market Square Arena, 112-105, as Person attempted just eight shots and scored six points. Facing elimination, the Pacers got big games from both Person (30 points) and Miller (27) to rally in the fourth quarter to win Game 4, 116-113. That set the stage for the deciding Game 5, on May 5, 1991 in Boston Garden.

    Chuck Person: “I felt, obviously, going into a short series, anything could happen if we could go into their building and get a win – and maybe two. The most important thing was to go get one and we did. But we came back and laid an egg in Game 3 – particularly myself by having only six points and taking a limited amount of shots. But we had the big Game 4 and went back (to Boston) for Game 5. I thought we played well but, obviously, the dramatics with Larry going down and coming back and the Garden crowd never sitting down after that had a major impact in the outcome of the game. Larry pretty much dominated that series.”

    Boston led by 10 after the first quarter, but the Pacers tied it at 58-all by halftime. Late in the second quarter, Bird crashed to the floor in pursuit of a loose ball and his head bounced hard off the fabled parquet. He stayed down for what seemed like an eternity to Boston fans before heading straight to the locker room. When he did not return with his teammates for the start of the third quarter, the drama began mounting about when – or if – he would re-enter the game.

    Chuck Person: “As soon as he went down, we went into a timeout shortly after that and (Coach Bob Hill) said, ‘When the guy comes back, and the fans are going to get into it and Larry’s going to try to take over the game.’ He came back and missed his first couple of shots but then he got on a roll, got the fans and his teammates into it. They made a run but we kept our composure, came back and made a run at them.”

    Larry Bird: “Going into the series, I was having a problem with my back and didn’t know if I was going to be able to play in all the games. In the last game, right before halftime, I took a spill and hit my head and went back to the locker room and really debated whether I should go on. The doctor told me I probably had a concussion and they didn’t think I should go out there with both the back and the damage I did to my brain – I rattled it a little bit.”

    The Pacers took an 82-79 lead in the third period but when Bird came jogging through the tunnel, the Garden crowd erupted.

    Chuck Person: (When Bird came through the tunnel) “I thought, ‘Well, here’s the second coming.’ He definitely played ungodly the rest of the way. For a guy who could’ve broken his neck or fractured a jaw or something, he really came out and performed at a level he’s accustomed to playing at.”

    Larry Bird: “I kept hearing the crowd oohing and aahing, and I kept asking what the score was. I had this massive headache on the right side of my head but finally I decided, ‘This could be your last game ever, so you’d better get out there and give it all you can.’ ‘’

    Though the Pacers had been prepared by Hill for what was coming, they didn’t handle it well. Boston outscored the visitors 33-14 to take a 112-96 lead before Indiana re-gathered itself for one last push. They cut the lead to 120-118 in the final seconds, setting up the game’s most memorable shot. Person initially posted up but Vern Fleming couldn’t get an angle for the entry pass, so Person popped to the 3-point line to take the ball. With Derek Smith and Bird both in his face, Person shot a 26-foot turnaround trey with 10 seconds left. Fleming was in perfect position in front of the rim to grab the rebound, but Parish jumped in and pushed the point guard under the rim, allowing Brian Shaw to get the ball. He was fouled and made both shots. Though Person tossed in a desperation 3-pointer from 35 feet out to cut it to 122-121, Shaw was fouled after the inbounds pass and made both free throws to finish the scoring. Bird, who had averaged 18.0 points on 36.9 percent shooting in the first four games, scored 32 and went 12-of-19 in the finale.

    Chuck Person: “The play was for me. Reggie was supposed to curl, pop out and give it to me. I couldn’t quite get into position like I wanted and Reggie couldn’t get it. Vern had the ball, so I came out to get it. I knew if I popped out behind the 3-point line, I was going to take it. After I received the ball, I saw an opening. It probably was not such a good shot, but I took it. On tape, it looked like Vern was open and I probably should’ve gotten it to him. But I wanted to take the shot because I didn’t think we could go into overtime and beat these guys with the momentum they had and the energy we had wasted trying to catch up. (The shot) didn’t feel good but I knew I was shooting the ball well the entire series, especially in Boston, so I thought it had a chance to go in. But it didn’t.”

    Larry Bird: “I thought they’d go for the tie. I thought they’d go down low to the big man and kick it out, try to get something off the drive. At that time we were older and what they did best against us was take us off the dribble and make plays. But what happened was they were having trouble getting the ball to Chuck in the post so he came out and got it. When he took the shot I was a little surprised. He had the 3-pointer, but he was more or less going away from the basket when he shot it. I always thought they would go inside-out, but they didn’t do that.”

    Chuck Person: “At any one given time in a game or during a person’s life, I think you have one chance at greatness. For this franchise, I thought that time was then. We could’ve put something together and had a great run for a long time with the team we had intact. If we could’ve added a couple of pieces and kept Detlef, I think things could’ve really been great for this franchise for a long time, but it didn’t work out that way. But we’re fortunate this franchise has Donnie Walsh, and the franchise has been pretty good since that time.”

    Immediately after the game, Bird made clear how impressed he had been by the Pacers. “If they don’t win 50 games next year,” he said, “something’s wrong.” The immediate future didn’t work out as expected for either team. After a disappointing 1991-92 season that produced 40 wins and a first-round sweep at the hands of the Celtics, Person was traded to Minnesota. The Pacers had to wait until the 1994-95 season to reach 50 wins. The Celtics didn’t make it past the second round in either ’91 or ’92 and Bird retired in ’92, McHale in ’93 and Parish left Boston in ’94. That turned out to be the beginning of the end of Boston’s reign of dominance, and marked the rise of the Pacers to elite status. They reached the Conference Finals five times in seven years beginning in 1994, culminating in a trip to the NBA Finals in 2000.

    Chuck Person: “I think it was the youth of our team, how everybody wanted to have it all at once. We had Rik Smits, who was coming into his own, and myself and Reggie (Miller) and Detlef Schrempf. Those four guys alone, we all had a lot of talent, we all had the opportunity to become great players but, obviously, we didn’t have enough minutes and enough balls to go around so some changes had to be made. I was the one that got traded.”

    Larry Bird: “There’s no question about it, they gave us all we wanted. We thought we were playing pretty good. We played Game 4 in Indianapolis and went right down to the wire. The quickness they had to take us off the dribble, I know Kevin McHale and Robert were saying, ‘Maybe it’s time to quit because these young guys are starting to take over the league.’ The only thing that beat the Pacers that was probably the years we had been in playoff situations. We knew where to get the ball at the right time. But from that point on, we always felt like the Pacers were an up-and-coming team and they’d probably win 50 games every year.”

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  26. #20
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I think it is evident that Danny should remain a Pacer unless we get back a more proven player. Coupling him with an equal talent, would force teams to not focus on Danny so much.

    Danny had a greater series than his numbers indicate. Except for Roy in a couple of games, the Bulls defense solely had plans to stop Danny. And they couldn't. Deng could not stop him. Bogans could not stop him.

    Hibbert needs to add strength. He needed to do that last offseason. But instead he got quicker, laterally. It still takes him forever to make a move. And it might always take that long. But add strength and power to those slow methodical moves and I think Roy's consistency goes up.

    PG and Tyler should start their off season next week. Hit it hard and come in changed. They need a consistent offensive arsenal. PG I know can have that, but Tyler I doubt.

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  28. #21
    All hail King George! KnicksRGarbage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    After this series I:
    1. gained a lot of respect for Danny
    2. have become worried, rather quickly, about Big Roy's lack of aggression.
    3. am very excited for paul george's future
    4. think it is clear that Mcbob really isn't a "valuable asset."
    5. believe D. Jones showed he belongs in the rotation
    6. am very frustrated by the comments made by josh after game 5 regarding his ejection

    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=6434456
    McRoberts appeared to catch an elbow to the neck when he and Noah battled near the lane. He then tried to return a shot, for which he was assessed a flagrant 2 foul and ejected. But McRoberts didn't agree with Granger's assertion that the play was dirty.

    "I'm not mad about it," McRoberts said. "He got a good hit on me. They caught me trying to hit him back.

    "It's part of the game. I'm not going to say it's dirty. That's Game 5 of a playoff series. You can't say it's dirty, it's part of basketball."


    Kind of a slap in the face to Danny if you ask me. I certainly wouldn't be happy if I stuck up for one of my teammates in a situation like this and they say something like Josh did.

    Anyway, I am way excited about the future of our team.
    Coach Vogel on the Chicago crowd in game 4 : "I only heard pacers fans. I didn't see any red, I saw Pacers fans I saw yellow and blue, and I heard Pacers chants. That's all I heard the whole game."

    http://www.cacawebdev.com

  29. #22

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I learned...

    We need to explore giving Foster a 1 or 2 year deal, if he still wants to play.

    Paul George has elite defensive skill and if he fine tunes his offensive game, he will be an All Star.

    Danny Granger doesn't disappear in the playoffs, he raises him game.

    Aj Price is pretty horrible a lot of times

    Frank Vogel deserves a contract. I was on the fence, but now I'm convinced.

    Roy still has a lot of work to do. He needs to get more fierce at the rim.

    This team can be a contender next season depending on what they do with there cap room

  30. #23
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    I learned...

    I'm getting too old for watching games till 5am due to time difference and going to work the next day...

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  32. #24
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    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by cgehlhausen4 View Post
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    Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we should have went with a different strategy though. Since the whole team have a skill they are good at and none of them are stars, why not start brandon rush and dahnte jones over Granger and George. Sound crazy? Well you have Jones on Rose and Rush on Deng. Jones harrased Rose, Rush is a pretty good defender. He could keep deng under control. That isnt the point tho. Once Rose and Deng come out thats when you bring in Danny And George. Danny wouldnt have to defend Deng and he wouldnt have deng guarding him. He would have had an advantage and would have probibly scored more points. If rose didnt come out, which he doesnt alot George still could have guarded him. Im half asleep so this probibly isnt coming out right, but basically I feel like Jones and rush are good enough on defense to keep the bulls from scoring alot and both of them can score good enough. Between DC, Jones, Rush, Hibbert and Tyler I see it as they could end the 1st quarter of games close. Something like 22-20 thus bringing in granger and george against the bulls second unit, still having good defense on the court and more offense...Over all tho we played alot better than anyone expected. Everyone had the broom out and we could have easily swept them if we can close the game. The whole series all i could think about was the Josh Mcbob for OJ Mayo trade that didnt go down. If that would have went down, I think we win this series...good play pacers.
    Two major problems with your theory:

    1) Rose and Deng play over 40 minutes per game. Rose comes out at the beginning of the second quarter, Deng midway through it: if you wait for them to be on the bench, you're not gonna see Danny and Paul on the floor for more than a handful of minutes.
    Besides, the Bulls' second unit isn't out there alone ever, there's always a starter or two mixed in. We've never seen Watson/Brewer/Korver/Gibson/Asik on the floor together, not in the regular season, nor in the playoffs until the final minutes of game 5.

    2) Who's gonna score early to keep up with them? Jones and Rush may make their lives tough, but you know they aren't gonna be completely stopped...so you have a lineup of DC/Jones/Rush/Hans/Hibs, where is the scoring coming from regularly?

  33. #25

    Default Re: Things we learned from the playoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If I were running the team, I would look hard at trading Roy. Not get rid of Roy, but trade Roy, and by trade I don't mean for a second round draft pick in 2029. But he probably has some pretty high trade value - likely third behind Danny and George. So package Roy with Brandon and see what we could get. Someone will ask me who do I have in mind? I don't know yet.

    So while I would see what we could get for Roy, I would do everything I could to trade Brandon. He brings nothing to our team that is unique, plus we have traded him twice already, so I would be shocked if he is back next season.


    Foster I would guess might be back, maybe 50/50. Dunleavy will not be back, he was a better fit with JOB's system, so he is gone.


    Tyler's best role? I don't know if you listened to Steve Kerr last night discuss what Vogel told him about Tyler, that is the whole team feeds off Tyler's energy - if you believe that and I do, in order for that to have a big influence on the team Tyler needs to start. Although in theory he would be great as an energy guy off the bench. But if we do trade Roy and bring in a more athletic big guy, I think Tyler can start.


    Danny and George I am fine with. Collison is the biggest question im my mind. He is only a second year player so he will get better, but the question is does he have the necessary upside to be what we need. if you assume Danny and Paul are locked in at the 2 and 3 - is Darren what we need? I have my serious doubts.


    So if we aren't going to get a player better than Danny, the bottonline is in order to be a championship contender, I think we need players better than Roy and darren. if somehow we can get a player better than danny, then sure Roy and Darren might be good enough. >>


    I am only looking at our top 8 players or so, players 9-12 I don't spend too much time worrying about -besiudes those players are not our problem. Josh coming off the bench for 15 minutes a game is fine. I will say I really don't want Price on the team next season - he's just not very good. Lance has talent, but too much baggage. Jones is fine for 15 minutes a game, if Jeff comes back and can play some that is fine.


    Ok, that is my off-the-top of my head evaluation of this team.


    I think Vogel deserves to be our coach, although if I were in charge I would go through the process, see who else is interested and also I would want to know what Vogel plans to do with this team when he has a full traning camp - what didn't he have time to install that he wanted to.


    Pretty much sums it up. I said in a thread last night in order for this team to beat the Bulls in game 5 both Hibbert and Collison had to step up and have good games which neither did.

    I have no longing to see Rush or Dun back, nor would I be disappointed if McBob and Price aren't back either. I'd probably give Hibbert and Collison another year b4 I'd cut the umbilical cord unless some unbelieveable trade comes along that can't be turned down that would have to include them.

    I'm not sure this team needs a Batman for Granger, but another Robin plus George might be all that's needed. The Pacers need a scorer who can play "D" who is capable of hitting a big shot when needed.

    I'm not opposed to Vogel being the HC next year, but like many others I feel you need to look at all the options. Rick Adelman is one of those experienced options. As far as non-experienced possibilities, my feeling is Vogel is at the top of the list.

    I'll go into players who I'd like to see the Pacers look into getting at another time. I will say OJ Mayo isn't presently on that list, and may never be.

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