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Thread: Onto the draft?

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    No need to go for a small PF. We have one in Hans now.

    Tyler never led the nation in rebounding. Faried is a different kind of player.
    Last edited by owl; 04-28-2011 at 09:43 AM.
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  2. #102

    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Tyler never led the nation in rebounding. Fareid is a different kind of player.

    Yes, and at Moorehead he wasn't playing against the greatest competition either. Sorry, the Pacers don't need another undersized PF, they need size up front. Preferably one that can play the 4/5, play "D", help Hibbert in the paint. How is he playing the P&R? I don't see Faried doing any of these things.

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  4. #103
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    I won't deny the Pacers need another big. I am the king of "get another bigman land",I would prefer to get an experienced big now instead of developing one. Nene comes to mind. So if that can be done then use that pick on someone with a singularly unique talent. That is why I like Faried, plus he rebounds relentlessly. Or pick possibly a Jimmer for another unique talent, long range shooting. Or trade down and get Johnson and a Nolan Smith/Travis Leslie/Darius Morris type player.
    Last edited by owl; 04-27-2011 at 11:13 PM.
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  5. #104
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I want Ivan Renko. 6'8 230 pound Yugoslav big man. I think he's going to be the real deal.
    I saw a couple games with him, very athletic, huge energy on D but most importantly - incredible IQ. Might be the next Tony Kukoc. However, there's been some questions about his age - I heard he once outplayed Sabonis in the 90s.

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  7. #105
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
    2006-2007 30.9 21.5 4.6 2.8 2.8 1.00 1.8 .2 2.6 .463 .855 .408 1.40
    2007-2008 33.1 25.9 4.6 2.9 2.6 1.12 2.0 .4 2.4 .483 .894 .439 1.42
    2008-2009 33.7 28.6 4.4 5.6 3.7 1.50 2.5 .2 2.4 .454 .876 .387 1.42

    SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
    2007-2008 18.5 7.0 1.1 1.7 1.2 1.49 .8 .1 1.3 .407 .854 .336 1.20
    2008-2009 33.0 16.2 3.0 4.1 2.6 1.59 1.5 .1 1.3 .480 .847 .382 1.40
    2009-2010 31.1 22.1 3.1 4.7 2.7 1.71 1.2 .1 1.1 .458 .892 .440 1.53
    2010-2011 35.8 28.9 3.4 4.3 3.5 1.22 1.3 .0 1.3 .452 .894 .396 1.40

    pretty much identical numbers across the board with the slightest of advantages going to player #2 from a pure statistical perspective. player #1 is steph curry. player #2 is jimmer fredette. so while you question his shot selection, jimmer is still a 40% 3pt shooter. while you question is ability to share, he still posts better assists and a/t numbers than curry at davidson. and as for the style of play between the two, they were near identicals in college. curry maybe has a small advantage in athleticism. jimmer an advantage in lift on his jumper and body control. how you can laugh at a comparison between the two is laughable in itself.

    you must also understand the lack of help jimmer had at byu being the reason he was forced to take so many shots, again that he hit at a very efficient clip. also realize that byu was a top 10 program the last two years jimmer was there. and why anyone would compare an off-the-ball player in steve alford to byu's primary ball handler i have no idea.
    Okay, I've kept my mouth shut on this subject for a while but this post did me in.

    To start, your comparing Fredette's number as a senior to Curry's as a junior. Every year they were at the same level Curry obliterated his stats and if you were to throw the Senior version of Curry he would have torn the NCAA a new one. He is at the NBA level getting better every year.

    Curry also played against MUCH better competition year round. Davidson was scheduled against Duke, Carolina, UCLA, or whatever a lot. Then in the NCAA tourny absolutely destroyed top teams in the Nation - including the Hibbert lead Hoyas.

    I can see Fredette being a nice spark off the bench for short periods of time in the NBA. He will not be able to defend anyone in the NBA though.

    The comparison between the two starts and ends at two good college players taking a smaller school to the big stage. Fredette won't make anything close to the same impact Curry has made in the NBA.

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  9. #106

    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    ok then compare each's junior stats...
    SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
    2008-2009 33.7 28.6 4.4 5.6 3.7 1.50 2.5 .2 2.4 .454 .876 .387 1.42

    2009-2010 31.1 22.1 3.1 4.7 2.7 1.71 1.2 .1 1.1 .458 .892 .440 1.53

    still fairly equal when you consider jimmer was the more efficient shooter as evidenced by the higher fg, ft, 3pt%s and the much higher pps. you also want to talk about competition? understand that the mountain west was ranked as the 4th toughest conference in college basketball this year whereas in curry's junior year at davidson, southern ranked 20th out of 31 conferences. mountain west ranked 7th that year btw. also, all it takes is watching these players play in college to see the similarities in their games. so you can try bashing my post all you'd like, but it's an educated post.

  10. #107
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Jimmer is the most frightening aspect of this draft to me. I would be relieved if he is taken before #15. He was an awesome college player, but I don't see how he would be able to guard anyone at the NBA level.

    I certainly wouldn't be upset if Tristan Thompson was our pick, but I don't think he'll be available at #15.

  11. #108
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Kyrie reminds me a lot of Isiah Thomas. He has a lot of different gears, and knows how and when to use them. He's not quite as fast as wall or quite as athletic as Rose, but he's got a higher basketball IQ than both of them combined. I'd take him #1 in a heartbeat over Williams.
    I am not sure I would take him over Williams but I do feel he will be a star.

  12. #109
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    MWC was hugely overrated on account of SDSU and BYU's records. The bottom line is that Jimmer didn't play NBA talent until the tourney.

  13. #110

    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    sdsu, byu, utah, unlv, air force, and new mexico have all been ranked or tournament teams in the last 3 years... and also you severely overrate "playing against nba talent". when you look at the actual numbers, mid-major teams like butler, air force, sdsu, utah state consistently rank among the best defensive teams in the country because unlike the "major" schools, the mids play defense as a team. butler didn't make back to back finals because of their offense afterall... if you want the perfect example, go watch steph curry's game against butler in the bracketbuster a few years back.

    just because chris kramer, dane fife, ronald nored, jarvis varnado, willie veasley aren't or weren't nba players, doesn't make them bad defenders
    Last edited by croz24; 04-28-2011 at 01:44 AM.

  14. #111
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Yes, and at Moorehead he wasn't playing against the greatest competition either. Sorry, the Pacers don't need another undersized PF, they need size up front. Preferably one that can play the 4/5, play "D", help Hibbert in the paint. How is he playing the P&R? I don't see Faried doing any of these things.
    But who's going to be there at 15 that fits that bill? Seemingly no one. That's the problem.

  15. #112

    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Faried had double-doubles against Louisville (12-17), Ohio State (15-12) and Florida (20-18). Yes, the rest of his competition was watered down. Was he supposed to play 1-on-5 against the big boys on his off days?

    I saw enough to think his motor and rebounding tenacity can translate into a solid bench PF. You aren't looking for any more than that at No. 15.

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  17. #113
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    sdsu, byu, utah, unlv, air force, and new mexico have all been ranked or tournament teams in the last 3 years... and also you severely overrate "playing against nba talent". when you look at the actual numbers, mid-major teams like butler, air force, sdsu, utah state consistently rank among the best defensive teams in the country because unlike the "major" schools, the mids play defense as a team. butler didn't make back to back finals because of their offense afterall... if you want the perfect example, go watch steph curry's game against butler in the bracketbuster a few years back.

    just because chris kramer, dane fife, ronald nored, jarvis varnado, willie veasley aren't or weren't nba players, doesn't make them bad defenders
    How many teams did the BE put in the tourney this year alone? 2 years ago the ACC put in 9 teams. I'm not impressed that the MWC put 6 teams in the tourney over 3 years.

    There is no doubt that major schools have more talented players, on average, than the MWC. They put more players in the league.

    Butler is a great team with a fantastic coach that played exceptionally well. I don't see how that makes Jimmer play anyone of note during the regular season.

  18. #114
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    After reading everyone's comments, listening to Wells on the Dan Dakich Show and waking up this morning to the Kravitz one-on-one with Bird, my total and complete hunch is Bird gets his scorer via trade/free agency and his big via the draft. The Pacers' love affair with Mayo is seemingly still going strong, and I think if Faried and/or Thompson drop to 15 they pull the trigger.

    I like that Faried has four years under his belt and some eye-popping stats in categories where the Pacers are hurting. His 13.3 rpg led the nation, and even more surprisingly he led his conference in steals at 2.3 per game. That's a very active big man right there. Still, I think his ceiling is lower than Thompson's. Not that it matters, as I'm pretty sure the decision will be out of our hands come 15 and Thompson will already be gone.

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  20. #115
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraft View Post
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    Faried had double-doubles against Louisville (12-17), Ohio State (15-12) and Florida (20-18). Yes, the rest of his competition was watered down. Was he supposed to play 1-on-5 against the big boys on his off days?

    I saw enough to think his motor and rebounding tenacity can translate into a solid bench PF. You aren't looking for any more than that at No. 15.
    Took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to post those numbers but was too lazy.
    Faried will help the team. Heck, would you take an upgrade of Tyler on your team?
    He is a better rebounder and shot blocker. I don't think Faried has any less drive than Tyler.
    Offensively Tyler is better. I think the Pacers could do much worse at 15.
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  21. #116
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Assuming Indiana keeps their pick, a Morris twin will probably be the selection.
    I could live with getting one of the two.
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  22. #117

    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
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    I needed to start my day with a laugh after last night's game. Thanks for that.

    Obviously, I don't get the Jimmer infatuation. The comparison to Alford is unfair to Alford. Just because you can shoot a half-court pull-up jumper doesn't mean you should. Jimmer's shot selection is horrible, and he pretty much ignores his teammates. The speed and athleticism of the NBA game will negate any of his perceived strengths as a scorer.
    These are the exact same things some people were saying about Stephen Curry.

  23. #118
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    I really, really hope our draft pick is included as part of a trade

    15th in what looks to be a real crappy draft
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  25. #119
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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    ok then compare each's junior stats...
    SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
    2008-2009 33.7 28.6 4.4 5.6 3.7 1.50 2.5 .2 2.4 .454 .876 .387 1.42

    2009-2010 31.1 22.1 3.1 4.7 2.7 1.71 1.2 .1 1.1 .458 .892 .440 1.53

    still fairly equal when you consider jimmer was the more efficient shooter as evidenced by the higher fg, ft, 3pt%s and the much higher pps. you also want to talk about competition? understand that the mountain west was ranked as the 4th toughest conference in college basketball this year whereas in curry's junior year at davidson, southern ranked 20th out of 31 conferences. mountain west ranked 7th that year btw. also, all it takes is watching these players play in college to see the similarities in their games. so you can try bashing my post all you'd like, but it's an educated post.
    I didn't say anything about Curry's conference, I said competition. Davidson played a lot of top schools. Did BYU play anyone in top 25 other than SDSU? They might have, I wasn't paying attention, but I know Curry was playing UNC, Duke, UCLA, Georgetown, ect.

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    Default Re: Onto the draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
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    ...The Pacers' love affair with Mayo is seemingly still going strong, and I think if Faried and/or Thompson drop to 15 they pull the trigger.

    I like that Faried has four years under his belt and some eye-popping stats in categories where the Pacers are hurting. His 13.3 rpg led the nation, and even more surprisingly he led his conference in steals at 2.3 per game. That's a very active big man right there. Still, I think his ceiling is lower than Thompson's. Not that it matters, as I'm pretty sure the decision will be out of our hands come 15 and Thompson will already be gone.
    I think that's how it will play out. I'd take Thompson if both were available, but I do not expect him to be there. I'd be just fine with Faried. He's the type of player I like, and I think being a inch short in height tends to be overblown in draft talk. Faried has long arms and is very athletic. He's also fairly quick compared to most PFs. I think he'd be a steady contributor at the pro level. I think my strategy after picking him would be making sure he's as strong as he can get for his frame and really drilling a few moves inside, a spot near the basket he can learn to hit consistently, and getting that FT percentage up. I'd love to see him learn the tricks of the trade under a vet like Jeff Foster, too.

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