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Thread: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

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    Default Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Vogel is making a very compelling argument for himself. It's hard not to be very impressed by the guy.

    http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...nce/index.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Aschburner, NBA.com
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    CHICAGO -- Before we launch into the official lookahead at Game 5 of the Chicago-Indiana first-round playoff series, let's pause briefly for an unpaid basketball endorsement:

    Frank Vogel needs to have the "interim" tag erased from his role as head coach of the Pacers.

    Whatever NBA general managers or presidents of basketball operations look for when they tab someone to work their teams' sidelines, Vogel seems to have in spades. Maximize your club's potential? Check. Indiana was 10 games under .500 (17-27) when Vogel was flipped the keys in a season that appeared destined to be its fifth in a row missing the postseason. It went 20-18 the rest of the way, with a 10-5 kick near the end to nail down the East's No. 8 seed.

    Inspire the troops? Check. The Pacers seem to love playing for Vogel. They exhaled when his positive preachings alleviated the more oppressive mood set by former coach Jim O'Brien, who had endured the roster makeover. That made them willing to go along as Vogel has demanded more this spring.

    Perform well under pressure? Check. Locked into what might have been considered the least competitive first-round series, the Pacers have played well enough to be tied 2-2 or lead 3-1 rather than trail 1-3 heading into the game Tuesday night at United Center. They have led in the fourth quarter in each game. Their defense has limited the Bulls to 39.8 percent field-goal shooting. After being outrebounded by a combined 39 in Games 1 and 2, the Pacers nearly matched Chicago's work on the boards at Conseco Fieldhouse (88-87).

    Vogel has taken players from the spare-parts bin -- rookie Paul George, reserves Dahntay Jones and A.J. Price -- and made life difficult for MVP favorite Derrick Rose, mixing defenders and looks while either pressuring the ball out of Rose's hands or extracting a physical toll when he pushes toward the rim. He has gotten center Roy Hibbert to play tall again, kept his big guy's length between Carlos Boozer and a respectable series and unleashed enough hounds to bother the Bulls into 42 first-half turnovers in the four games, messing with Chicago's flow.

    "Our execution could be a lot better," Bulls guard Kyle Korver told reporters Monday. "We're trying to find our flow at that end. A lot of it has to do with how they're trapping Derrick. We're not getting into our sets really quick. We see the shot clock is at seven [seconds] or eight, and we're like, 'Oh, we can't run our whole play now.' So we have to get in our sets quicker. We've talked a lot about that the last couple of days."

    The Bulls could have taken Sunday off and spent Monday and Tuesday talking instead about the Orlando-Atlanta series, if not for the job Vogel has done with the Pacers in forcing them to five games and daring them now to go six. It's folly to tell Indiana president of basketball operations Larry Bird what to do in a basketball decision, but imagine how the Pacers might respond if "interim" were scrubbed off Vogel's title in a well-timed, Hollywood-style announcement about an hour before tipoff for Game 5.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled game-day coverage ...

    It's all riding on Rose's sprained left ankle. Somehow the Bulls' point guard played more than 32 minutes in Game 4 after rolling his ankle late in the first quarter. He shot 3-of-16 and scored just eight points after that, though he did solve Indiana's pressure enough for 10 assists in a second half Chicago won 51-40.

    Rose has had X-rays and an MRI, has spent time in a walking boot and has not practiced since he was seen hobbling slowly postgame Saturday, in shower clogs and full uniform, to a treatment room at the Fieldhouse. He said Monday he will take a painkiller shot for Game 5.

    Besides Rose's ankle, there will be other Bulls body parts getting scrutinized, from Korver's fingertips (he's 8-of-10 on 3-pointers in the series vs. teammates' 15-of-64) to Joakim Noah's elbows (time to get pushy, Jo) to Boozer's foam biceps (more show than "Oh!"). Coach Tom Thibodeau has reminded his players not to settle for a perimeter game, to work their offense inside-out, to stay aggressive and to match Indiana's more obvious physical play.

    Which is just one more argument on Vogel's behalf: Thibodeau, a top candidate for NBA Coach of the Year, is reacting and adjusting to a fellow still lugging around "interim."

    Steve Aschburner has written about the NBA for 25 years. You can e-mail him here and follow him on twitter.

    The views on this page do not necessarily reflect the views of the NBA, its clubs or Turner Broadcasting.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    As I said the other day I'll go with what Bird & co. say is best, but I have no idea & I mean no idea of a single coach out there that I think would be better for this particular group of players.

    That includes some of the top names that are available.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Aschburner
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    It's folly to tell Indiana president of basketball operations Larry Bird what to do in a basketball decision, but imagine how the Pacers might respond if "interim" were scrubbed off Vogel's title in a well-timed, Hollywood-style announcement about an hour before tipoff for Game 5.
    This is the first time I've seen this idea thrown out. I don't think it would have any impact on the game, but it is interesting to think about.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    This is the first time I've seen this idea thrown out. I don't think it would have any impact on the game, but it is interesting to think about.
    Regardless of when or how it happens, it needs to happen. I was very much on the fence with him until this series, now I'm wholly convinced that he is the man for the job.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    This is the first time I've seen this idea thrown out. I don't think it would have any impact on the game, but it is interesting to think about.
    They don't need any distractions. I would like to see that done as soon as the season is over though.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    It is going to be very difficult to hire someone else after the end of season performance and the thought of transitioning to ANOTHER coach in 3 months time should make everyone a little queasy.
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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    It would be an amazing annoucement, wonder what effect it would have on the team for this next game? Would they be energized? I would almost think they would be playing harder knowing it might be Vogel's last game tonight. Would not want his Pacers career to end on the road. There is always extra motivation to close things out the right way.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Guess it all depends on who is in the front office this summer. If Bird, i would say 90% cahnce Vogel stays. If a new front office, it would drop his chances a lil bit.
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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Making the announcement now would be a big distraction and I think there is some merit in the idea that the guys will be extra motivated in case this is Vogel's last game as an NBA head coach.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

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    Michael Pina, Red94: "There are so many different ways the Pacers can beat you. They have an All-Star scoring threat, imposing figures on the front line, steady point guard play, and most importantly, a defense that'll choke the life out of just about every offense that crosses its path."

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    We need a "Hire Vogel" mood.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    i love this guy. a young coach to grow with our young players is music to my earholes. this man deserves the job, and he has definitely earned it.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    I also think it's clear that the players want to be coached by Vogel.

    They wouldn't have played the way they have if they didn't want him to coach them. I don't mean "playing well." For the most part, individually, no one except Granger has played exceedingly well skills wise.

    I'm talking about the amount of effort, scrappiness, and heart this team has shown the past 5 games. Every player has given 110%, and that is a complete reflection of how they feel about Vogel.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I also think it's clear that the players want to be coached by Vogel.

    They wouldn't have played the way they have if they didn't want him to coach them. I don't mean "playing well." For the most part, individually, no one except Granger has played exceedingly well skills wise.

    I'm talking about the amount of effort, scrappiness, and heart this team has shown the past 5 games. Every player has given 110%, and that is a complete reflection of how they feel about Vogel.
    Nothing against Vogel but if you can give it your all in the playoffs you shouldn't be in the league.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    has this thought crossed anyone else's mind, "maybe Bird/pacers have not removed the interim tag because Bird is not coming back next season"

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Nothing against Vogel but if you can give it your all in the playoffs you shouldn't be in the league.
    It's a different level than any other team in this league. I'm not exaggerating.
    Every player is playing hard for all teams, but this one has taken it to a different level.

    edit: Unclebuck, I don't think so. I think they'll just wait until the summer, and possibly interview other people, but Vogel's got a huge chance.

    I would guess Larry wants to come back. He's clearly done a very good job.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    It's a different level than any other team in this league. I'm not exaggerating.
    Every player is playing hard for all teams, but this one has taken it to a different level.

    edit: Unclebuck, I don't think so. I think they'll just wait until the summer, and possibly interview other people, but Vogel's got a huge chance.

    I would guess Larry wants to come back. He's clearly done a very good job.
    You are probably correct, but I will say if Bird has decided he wants to lave right after the season, that is one reason why they have not removed the interim tag.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You are probably correct, but I will say if Bird has decided he wants to lave right after the season, that is one reason why they have not removed the interim tag.
    I want Frank back 100% and have for weeks, but I completely understand why they haven't removed the interim tag. Let them do their due diligence this summer and then hire Frank. No need to hurry.

    Also, this quote from Vogel (through Wells) has me ready to run through a damn wall. Frank gets "it."

    Vogel: "If we win tonight we'll win the series."
    Last edited by BPump33; 04-26-2011 at 01:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by BPump33 View Post
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    Also, this quote from Vogel (through Wells) has me ready to run through a damn wall. Frank gets "it."

    Vogel: "If we win tonight we'll win the series."
    Bruno quoted him as "We feel like if we win tonight we'll win the series." A little different......
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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    Bruno quoted him as "We feel like if we win tonight we'll win the series." A little different......
    Yeah, I saw that. Either way, I love the guy.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Vogel is making a very compelling argument for himself. It's hard not to be very impressed by the guy.
    The article was great, but if anything... IMO, it somewhat overemphasizes his contribution. Our team is not full of a bunch of sloppy seconds. It's a young team that has to learn how to play in the league. In my polly-anna mind, I want to believe that the talent is maturing and coming to age before our eyes, and having another coach for our team won't change that.

    But what's still just dumbfounding to me is how our little team has gone from a playoff filler to a genuine intimidator. In the course of a few weeks, no less. What impresses me most about Vogel is that he gets that the game is as much mental and confidence-based as it is skills based. He is behaving and acting as the change he wants to see. That takes a lot of courage. Having him as a new interim coach has put him in the position where he nothing to lose by going all out. He knows that this is his shot, and he's risen to it. You can't help but respect his attitude.

    Look at this blog post by a Chicagoan. I think it's totally indicative of where we're headed as a team:

    http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chic...en-enough.html

    The Indiana Pacers have played the Chicago Bulls hard. Sometimes they've also played the Bulls dirty. The result is that, while the Bulls hold a 3-1 lead in the series, all the games have been close and have come down to the final few possessions.
    Pacers' forward Danny Granger has received some well-deserved national attention and performed admirably, averaging 22 points and 6 rebounds in the series. Second-year point guard Darren Collison has turned some heads with a brilliant 17-point 9-assist game 1 and then showed his toughness by quickly returning from a nasty ankle sprain suffered in game 2. Role players like guards A.J. Price, Mike Dunleavy and Dahntay Jones have all had their moments. Lastly, the Pacers big men, Jeff Foster, Josh McRoberts and Tyler Hansbrough have played physical defense and somehow managed to only have their thuggish flagrant fouls called via long distance.

    I salute all things Pacers...players, coaches, front office and fans. You've exceeded expectations.

    It's been a real slice, but...

    It's time for the Indiana Pacers to get the hell out of my playoff world. Frankly they're starting to kill my Bulls buzz and I don't appreciate it. The games have gotten progressively uglier with total points scored going from 203 and 186 for the 2 games in Chicago to 172 and 173 for the 2 games in Indy. In games 3 and 4 combined, the Bulls shot 38.3% from the field and the Pacers shot 38.6%. If allowed to continue, this could set NBA basketball back decades.

    It's also getting dangerous out there, although only if you're on the Bulls. While it's not unprecedented for an NBA player to have an ordinary foul retroactively turned into a flagrant foul by the league office, I'm pretty sure that the Pacers' Foster broke new ground in game 3 by having two fouls in the same game transformed into flagrants by Commisioner David Stern's video watchdogs. Most impressive.

    One of those, a vicious and completely purposeful elbow-whip off the top of Bulls' foward Luol Deng's shiny head, could have warranted ejection. The other, a smack in the face of Bulls' superstar Derrick Rose, was notable because Pacers' forward Hansbrough flagrantly-fouled Rose even more egregiously than did Foster. Hansbrough somehow got away clean in the game and afterwards.

    Perhaps Hansbrough's apparent diplomatic immunity emboldened the Pacers' McRoberts (people get him and Hansbrough mixed up all the time) who decided that Rose's dunk in the second quarter of game 4 warranted a forearm to Rose's face as Rose went back on defense. Darned if he wasn't right...the referees on site somehow missed this.

    Honestly, I don't blame the Pacers for trying to instill in the minds of Bulls' players, and particularly Rose, the thought that, if you go strong to the basket, we will make it a painful experience. I mean, I read all about Pavlov's dogs and such in high school. I can also appreciate McRoberts' thinking that a punk move like that dead-ball forearm shiver might just be enough to get Rose to retaliate and maybe they'd both get thrown out of the game...a decidedly favorable exchange for the Pacers. The Pacers are just trying to win...any way they can.

    Again, kudos to the Pacers, this time for their indomitable and unprincipled competitiveness. However, the fact remains that the Pacers don't belong in the second round of these playoffs and the Bulls do. Both teams have places to go and people to see. In the Pacers' case, it should be home to their families.

    Game 5

    Tomorrow night the two teams will face off at Chicago's United Center. Rose, who sprained his ankle in game 4, is expected to play. Deng's headache should just about be gone and Bulls' star forward Carlos Boozer is so overdue that he should be about ready to burst.

    The Bulls have yet to play a good all-around game in this series and certainly the Pacers have had a lot to do with this. Look for the Bulls to come out of the gate fast, forcing the action and taking the ball to the rim at every opportunity. Look for the Pacers to foul...early, often and of course, hard. On defense, I don't see the Bulls doing anything tricky...just well.

    Unlike the previous 4 games, the Bulls will take control of this one in its early stages and won't let go. They'll do this because they're clearly the better team and because, like the rest of us, they know that it's time for Indy to get back to auto racing.

    Bulls 103 - Pacers 85.
    Hahah... now we're being seen as a team of brutes? This is the talk of a fan who is starting to lose confidence in his team.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    This is the first time I've seen this idea thrown out. I don't think it would have any impact on the game, but it is interesting to think about.
    I don't think it would have any impact either. They are already pretty much maxed out. He's already got their full attention and they are playing hard inspired basketball. How can you get more out of someone that's already playing inspired?

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Wow....I didn't realize how soft the entire city of Chicago is.

    What a bunch of crying pussies.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    They don't need any distractions. I would like to see that done as soon as the season is over though.
    +1

    i would be very superstitious about throwing another variable into the mix just before game time and giving the team something else to think about.

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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    First of all, those flagrant fouls were ridiculous.

    I am willing to bet that had the tables been turned, those fouls aren't upgraded if they had been committed by Boozer or Noah on DC or someone on the Pacers.

    The fact that we are "killing the Bulls high" for these fans is just hilarious to me.

    Oh, gee wiz, so sorry that your precious team can barely handle the 8th seed. We had no intention of making you feel bad about yourselves...

    I am so proud of the progress we've made over these 4 games. I just want to extend this thing to see the Bulls fans REALLY start sweating and grasping at straws.
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    Default Re: Indiana's 'interim' coach giving Bulls a full-time headache

    Thebestpart of that blog was when he called boozer a star

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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