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Thread: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

  1. #1

    Default Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    You can't let aj price do what he's done all 3 games. You cannot let this guy suck the life and every ounce of momentum out of your team like that. You have a veteran pg on the bench that actually runs plays and is much quicker and won't pound the ball for 24 seconds. I'm sorry, you cannot be the coach if you can't see this. You just can't. Price has killed this team.

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    Mr. Clutch granger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Someone delete this thread

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Uhh

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    Mr. Clutch granger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    We are all upset about the loss. Don't blame it on Vogel. His the reason why we are in the playoffs.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Vogel's a good coach, and he's been sticking with the rotation that got him here. AJ's had some good minutes this series. I would have liked to see TJ Ford too, but I understand why he made that call.
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  9. #6

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Aj price has killed any momentum this team has had.

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  11. #7

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Good coach. Innovative, inspirational, young. Cannot draw up final offensive possessions to save his life. That's his main flaw in my book, and easily cured by good assistants.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Good coach. Innovative, inspirational, young. Cannot draw up final offensive possessions to save his life. That's his main flaw in my book, and easily cured by good assistants.
    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    I'm not going to say that Frank isn't a good coach...but I do agree (I've now said this in three threads now) that Price is a big reason why we haven't won Games 2 and 3.
    Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    JMO, but it seems this board is holding their coach to a far, far higher standard than the opposition's coach.

    He did an unbelievable job, and in some ways, outcoached the guy who will probably win COY.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Price is not the problem. For the most part, we played this game possession by possession and put a lot of emphasis on getting the most out of every single possession.

    There were a few possessions that did not seem to include a good play. I will admit that Price was involved in a couple of those. I simply do not like quarter-ending plays that a ruled by a guard pounding the ball to consume the rest of the clock, only to call his own number in attempting to get the last shot. I've seen our PGs guilty of this the entire season. If you want to fault Price for this, then so be it. But it's not just Price, all of our PGs do the same thing.

    But Vogel. I think he has more than earned the removal of the word "interim". It's just a question of whether the Pacers could luck into landing a top-tier coach for next season. If not, then don't look elsewhere; Vogel is your man.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Disagree with this thread title. Knee-jerk reaction.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  21. #13

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    The only Vogel hasn't done well in this series is win. He's been absolutely amazing. Chicago is far superior in talent and has played well every game and we STILL have/had a chance to be up 3-0.

    After tonight's game, I see no reason he shouldn't get the job.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    The bulls are a much better team than us...end of story. We have played beyond our talent level this entire series. To me when a team plays beyond their talent level...that is the sign of a good coach.

    Not saying we are not talented...because we are. But we are NOT Bulls level talented.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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  25. #15

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.
    Never said he did. But this has been a problem for the Pacers for a while. Not a first-time occurrence.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    The bulls are a much better team than us...end of story. We have played beyond our talent level this entire series. To me when a team plays beyond their talent level...that is the sign of a good coach.

    Not saying we are not talented...because we are. But we are NOT Bulls level talented.
    Vogel did a great job with what he had.

    He employed a bunch of strategies and personnel that Thibodeau simply didn't see coming. The Bulls almost looked unprepared. He took some chances and went deep into his bench, which is the opposite of what coaches normally do in the playoffs. Took guts to do that. Credit to him for that.

  27. #17

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.
    And he would of been out coached if Rose was guarded by George. No telling if Rose would of hit it over George, but you go with what has bothered Rose the most and that is George.

    I like Vogel as a coach, I'm just annoyed by that defensive play. Why would you put Jones on Rose? You can put Rush on Korver just as easily.

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  29. #18

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Price is not the problem. For the most part, we played this game possession by possession and put a lot of emphasis on getting the most out of every single possession.

    There were a few possessions that did not seem to include a good play. I will admit that Price was involved in a couple of those. I simply do not like quarter-ending plays that a ruled by a guard pounding the ball to consume the rest of the clock, only to call his own number in attempting to get the last shot. I've seen our PGs guilty of this the entire season. If you want to fault Price for this, then so be it. But it's not just Price, all of our PGs do the same thing.
    Perhaps that's what Vogel wants at the end of the quarter. They do it so much (every time..) That you'd think, if he didn't want it, then he would have had them stop doing it. I hate ISOs.

    AJ needs to get back to a PG mentality. He was never this shot happy, and who knows why he's doing it now. (as in last two seasons. Granted, apparently you were yelled at and yanked out if you didn't shoot quickly with O'brien..) Perhaps that's what his role is, but he was always such a good floor general, that it would be a shame if it is what his role has become.

    That said, a backup point guard does not make or break you. And despite the missed shots, he certainly didn't hurt the team tonight in terms of "momentum" both times he was in our team went on a run.
    Last edited by Sookie; 04-21-2011 at 10:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Never said he did. But this has been a problem for the Pacers for a while. Not a first-time occurrence.
    And it's not an unusual occurrence for teams that don't have the go to difference maker down the stretch.

    Defenses clamp down on clutch possessions, no matter who you play against. The guys who can make the game winning plays in those situations are the true superstars.

  31. #20

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    I'm tired of this ****. DC builds up some momentum he goes to the bench, Price comes in and it takes him 20 seconds to set up the offense, no one is open = Price takes dumb shot. There is no way he is better than TJ.

    Everygame I get scared when I see DC checking out to go get some rest cause I know we are about to lose all momentum. We need a back up PG over the summer.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Who is gonna play instead of Price? Ford? Do you guys remember how TJ Ford plays? Dribble into the lane and turn it over. Has Price been good? Hell no. He is looking for his shot way too much. But TJ isn't the answer and DC can't play the whole game. Blame Price for Price's play, not Vogel.

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  35. #22

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powww View Post
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    I'm tired of this ****. DC builds up some momentum he goes to the bench, Price comes in and it takes him 20 seconds to set up the offense, no one is open = Price takes dumb shot. There is no way he is better than TJ.

    Everygame I get scared when I see DC checking out to go get some rest cause I know we are about to lose all momentum. We need a back up PG over the summer.
    *sigh*

    it may feel like that, but it's just not the case.

    Price led the point guards in +/- by a significant margin this season. That isn't an indication of good or bad play.

    What it is an indication of, is what happens, score wise, in the game, when a certain player comes in. So whether you think Price single handedly "loses the momentum" or not, doesn't matter. +/- shows he doesn't.

    Now, what I think you are seeing..is that Dahntay Jones and AJ run an UGLY offense, it's as ugly as the Dun/Josh offense is pretty. But it's actually functioned pretty well this season.

    Did Price play good tonight. Heck no. He was out of control and forcing shots. But he certainly didn't lose momentum for the team. He was a +/- 0. We didn't gain or lose momentum with him in. (Actually, that's not true..we did both.)

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    What do you expect?

    Someone speaking out of their *** about something that isn't true.

    Vogel is a damn good coach.

    I don't feel a topic like this is worth going into much more detail.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    What a stupid thread, Vogel has done a damn good job and I hope he is named the full time Head Coach.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Yes, AJ has not played well in the post season, but DC is not all full strength either. Would you rather see TJ or heaven forbid Lance out there? He has us being competitive against one of the best teams in basketball right now. I was hoping we would pull off one game in this series but I am happy we are competing and making the bulls work their butts off for every win. Our guys really played good defense tonight but in the end was taken by the better team with an MVP player. Hopefully this experience will fuel the fire for our young guys to bust their humps in the offseason and get better. I see Hibbert, PG, DC and even Lance (if he can get it together) making good improvement this offseason.

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