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  1. #1

    Default Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    You can't let aj price do what he's done all 3 games. You cannot let this guy suck the life and every ounce of momentum out of your team like that. You have a veteran pg on the bench that actually runs plays and is much quicker and won't pound the ball for 24 seconds. I'm sorry, you cannot be the coach if you can't see this. You just can't. Price has killed this team.

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    Mr. Clutch granger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Someone delete this thread

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Uhh

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    Mr. Clutch granger33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    We are all upset about the loss. Don't blame it on Vogel. His the reason why we are in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Vogel's a good coach, and he's been sticking with the rotation that got him here. AJ's had some good minutes this series. I would have liked to see TJ Ford too, but I understand why he made that call.
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  9. #6

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Aj price has killed any momentum this team has had.

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  11. #7

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Good coach. Innovative, inspirational, young. Cannot draw up final offensive possessions to save his life. That's his main flaw in my book, and easily cured by good assistants.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Good coach. Innovative, inspirational, young. Cannot draw up final offensive possessions to save his life. That's his main flaw in my book, and easily cured by good assistants.
    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.
    Never said he did. But this has been a problem for the Pacers for a while. Not a first-time occurrence.

  16. #10

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.
    And he would of been out coached if Rose was guarded by George. No telling if Rose would of hit it over George, but you go with what has bothered Rose the most and that is George.

    I like Vogel as a coach, I'm just annoyed by that defensive play. Why would you put Jones on Rose? You can put Rush on Korver just as easily.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.
    That is the luxury you have when you have a player like Rose and we don't have that, so the coach needs to be more creative, not blaming this loss on Vogel but I'm dissapointed that he can only call the same BS Iso plays JOB used to call.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    It's not as if Tom Thibodeau drew up some creative, unpredictable play for his team's game winning possession. He gave the ball to Rose and told everyone else to get out of the way.

    This is very true, and it makes Granger look even worse. Granger had some nice baskets in the 4th qtr, but who didn't realize Granger would take the last shot whether it was an open shot or a forced one? The sun comes up in east and sets in the west everyday, and it was predictable Granger would take the last shot. He's not Wade, LeBron, or Rose. Apparently, Granger feels he is the "MAN", when in reality he is just one of the other many boys when it comes to being clutch and the closer.

    I realize Granger is the best player the Pacers have, but there are other players on the floor. IT IS A TEAM GAME. Quit allowing Granger to feel he has to take the last shot, especially when it is a forced shot that isn't even a good shot. 2 words that aren't synonymous with each other are "clutch and Granger." Never have been nor will they ever be.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Good coach. Innovative, inspirational, young. Cannot draw up final offensive possessions to save his life. That's his main flaw in my book, and easily cured by good assistants.
    I think the plays he drew up were good but I think Collison failed to execute them properly. The Bulls trapped him on the Pick-and-Roll and he didn't make the correct decisions when that happened.

    When the game was tied at 84, Danny came open off of a screen but Darren didn't get him the ball. Instead he forced a contested shot between 2 defenders. The last play actually wasn't a bad play. Deng did a great job defending and Danny still got a great look at the game winning shot. Deng bothered the shot and forced the miss.

    I don't see how you can blame Vogel when Hansbrough and Hibbert missed as many shots as they did in Game 3. Hibbert got the ball deep in the paint several times and he either missed or committed the offensive foul. Hansbrough's jumper has gone M.I.A. since game 1. Neither of those 2 things are Frank Vogel's fault.

    Vogel made the great decision to play Dhantay Jones in Game 3. He also has the Pacers playing the best defense they've played all year. The Bulls have Derrick Rose and the Pacers don't. That's the difference in the entire series.

    I don't understand how anyone can fault Vogel for not getting his young 37 win team to upset the league leader in wins and defensive. It's just silly.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  23. #14

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Wait. Why does everyone point at tyler and say " see Obrien wouldn't play him and now Vogel does and look at him now". Yet, obrien didn't play Ford either and its not assumed that he might benefit from thee Vogel system too? You can't have it both ways. And for the record, ive thought tj has been pretty solid all year.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    Aj price has killed any momentum this team has had.
    You do understand the caliber team the Bulls are right? And do you understand the caliber we are? Vogel has coached us to I believe, the most "exciting" playoff series right now. He's coached us great and made us look like a team worthy of being in the playoffs.
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    Aj price has killed any momentum this team has had.
    And you think TJ Ford would not have killed any momentum this team had? How quickly we forget why the guy got benched every year including this one. TJ would have killed the momentum just as quickly as AJ.

    I think a lot of fans just had way to high of expectations for this team. I am thrilled we just kept it close, Paul George is having an amazing series defensively, and our young guys are gaining valuable experience.

    Vogel has done a tremendous job turning this team around and getting us to the playoffs. He has done a very good job in the playoffs go up against the best team in the league given what he has to work with.

    We get some rebounding help at PF in the offseason, Paul George works on his offense, and we will be a much higher seed then 8th next season.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    I'm not going to say that Frank isn't a good coach...but I do agree (I've now said this in three threads now) that Price is a big reason why we haven't won Games 2 and 3.
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    JMO, but it seems this board is holding their coach to a far, far higher standard than the opposition's coach.

    He did an unbelievable job, and in some ways, outcoached the guy who will probably win COY.

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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Price is not the problem. For the most part, we played this game possession by possession and put a lot of emphasis on getting the most out of every single possession.

    There were a few possessions that did not seem to include a good play. I will admit that Price was involved in a couple of those. I simply do not like quarter-ending plays that a ruled by a guard pounding the ball to consume the rest of the clock, only to call his own number in attempting to get the last shot. I've seen our PGs guilty of this the entire season. If you want to fault Price for this, then so be it. But it's not just Price, all of our PGs do the same thing.

    But Vogel. I think he has more than earned the removal of the word "interim". It's just a question of whether the Pacers could luck into landing a top-tier coach for next season. If not, then don't look elsewhere; Vogel is your man.

  31. #20

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Price is not the problem. For the most part, we played this game possession by possession and put a lot of emphasis on getting the most out of every single possession.

    There were a few possessions that did not seem to include a good play. I will admit that Price was involved in a couple of those. I simply do not like quarter-ending plays that a ruled by a guard pounding the ball to consume the rest of the clock, only to call his own number in attempting to get the last shot. I've seen our PGs guilty of this the entire season. If you want to fault Price for this, then so be it. But it's not just Price, all of our PGs do the same thing.
    Perhaps that's what Vogel wants at the end of the quarter. They do it so much (every time..) That you'd think, if he didn't want it, then he would have had them stop doing it. I hate ISOs.

    AJ needs to get back to a PG mentality. He was never this shot happy, and who knows why he's doing it now. (as in last two seasons. Granted, apparently you were yelled at and yanked out if you didn't shoot quickly with O'brien..) Perhaps that's what his role is, but he was always such a good floor general, that it would be a shame if it is what his role has become.

    That said, a backup point guard does not make or break you. And despite the missed shots, he certainly didn't hurt the team tonight in terms of "momentum" both times he was in our team went on a run.
    Last edited by Sookie; 04-21-2011 at 10:13 PM.

  32. #21
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Disagree with this thread title. Knee-jerk reaction.
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    The only Vogel hasn't done well in this series is win. He's been absolutely amazing. Chicago is far superior in talent and has played well every game and we STILL have/had a chance to be up 3-0.

    After tonight's game, I see no reason he shouldn't get the job.

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  36. #23
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    The bulls are a much better team than us...end of story. We have played beyond our talent level this entire series. To me when a team plays beyond their talent level...that is the sign of a good coach.

    Not saying we are not talented...because we are. But we are NOT Bulls level talented.
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    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    The bulls are a much better team than us...end of story. We have played beyond our talent level this entire series. To me when a team plays beyond their talent level...that is the sign of a good coach.

    Not saying we are not talented...because we are. But we are NOT Bulls level talented.
    Vogel did a great job with what he had.

    He employed a bunch of strategies and personnel that Thibodeau simply didn't see coming. The Bulls almost looked unprepared. He took some chances and went deep into his bench, which is the opposite of what coaches normally do in the playoffs. Took guts to do that. Credit to him for that.

  39. #25

    Default Re: Frank Vogel-Great story, not a good coach.

    I'm tired of this ****. DC builds up some momentum he goes to the bench, Price comes in and it takes him 20 seconds to set up the offense, no one is open = Price takes dumb shot. There is no way he is better than TJ.

    Everygame I get scared when I see DC checking out to go get some rest cause I know we are about to lose all momentum. We need a back up PG over the summer.

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