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Thread: Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

  1. #1

    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    We should make a trade with Atlanta if possible. That team may have reached its ceiling this year and decide to break it up this summer. They have a very expensive unit and will have to shed payroll. We would absorb Johnson's horrible contract in the process.

    Indiana Gets:
    Joe Johnson
    Al Horford

    Atlanta Gets:
    Tyler Hansbrough
    Brandon Rush
    James Posey
    1 or 2 first round picks
    (maybe PG)

    We can give them assets or whatever it takes, while not giving them something too valuable (ie Granger or George) because Johnson's contract is so bad. It blows up to $25mil in 2014. That might be half the cap that year. We should be compensated for taking on that contract that could cripple a franchise. We get Horford or Smith and hope Joe Johnson still keeps ballin.

    Atlanta will get good cheap talent with plenty of potential AND get huge cap savings. Their payroll will drop to $35mil- which is what we will have at the beginning of the summer. We are all saying how much space we have and they will be in an envious spot.

    Atlanta:
    1: Hinrich / Teague
    2: BRush (maybe PG)
    3: Marvin Williams
    4: Josh Smith / Hansbrough
    5: ??

    They could use their 1st round picks and cap space to get a center and upgrade their point guard. Maybe they could somehow get Kaman from LA with the draft picks if we do a 3-way trade.

    We would basically swap salary positions and have $50 mil tied up with JJ+Horford+Granger. I think that is a formidable trio in this league that could basically equal Atlanta's success. The beauty of this trade is that we have the roster to make it work.

    No one knows what the new cap will look like but considering almost every team has more than $50mil right now, I think they will have a provision where teams can still resign their own players by paying them above $50mil for the next couple of seasons until they 'phase out' old contracts. We can then still sign Hibbert, Collison, and McRoberts (hopefully this summer) to post-CBA smaller contracts and be within whatever cap limits there will be.

    This is much better than Atlanta's roster could have been with such a big contract.


    1: Collison / Price
    2: Johnson / George
    3: Granger / Jones
    4: Horford / McRoberts
    5: Hibbert / Stanko??

    To me this would be the best way to approach the summer and resist free agency.
    This might seem overly optimistic but I think such a horrible contract is going to seem like a cancer in the new cba. This trade should help both teams going forward. We upgrade our 2 and 4 instantly.

    And maybe throw in PG if you have to make it work.


    oh and GO PACERS
    Last edited by sopgy; 04-12-2011 at 01:57 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    I reposted this in the ATL trade. New at this and I am not sure what i'm doing.

  3. #3
    Rooting My Family 2 Glory CooperManning's Avatar
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    It's going to take more than Hansbrough and picks to get Atlanta's two best players, no matter how much cap relief you're offering. Horford is probably the least likely player Atlanta would trade. They locked him in on a pretty good contract and he's more or less the backbone of the team.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Well we could send PG instead of BRush to Atlanta and I think the Clippers would give Atlanta Chris Kaman for 2 of our picks and even Brandon too if needed. We would still have a very strong starting 5 and Granger's skill set will be nice along JJ and Horford

    It now becomes for Atlanta:

    1: Hinrich / Teague
    2: Paul George
    3: Marvin Williams
    4: Josh Smith / Hansbrough
    5: Chris Kaman

    Thats a decent young team with some flexibility hoping they land someone in the draft or free agency to push them forward.

  5. #5
    Member pathil275's Avatar
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Why would the Hawks give up their two best players? No way they are doing it just to save money. After all, they are a more than solid team that needs some tweaks here and there and not a complete overhaul.

    I like to think that Josh Smith might be available to the Pacers though. I read about a three-team-proposal in a Hoopsworld-chat the other day that was very intriguing.

    Pacers send Granger to Clippers
    Clippers send Kaman to Atlanta
    Atlanta sends Smith to Indiana

    That'd be nice. Clippers would do that in a heartbeat since they are really lacking a SF. I am not sure if Atlanta is satisfied by this, maybe another young asset to seal the deal (Aminu or a protected 1st round pick?)

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    Member yoadknux's Avatar
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    JJ has an awful contract but I really haven't seen them shopping him. And they gave him this contract a year ago, they won't get rid of him that quickly.
    Al Horford won't be traded anytime soon, J-smoove will probably be traded if something goes wrong this summer.
    And this trade doesn't make sense, Atlanta doesn't gain anything, but give away their current franchise player & future possible franchise player

  8. #7

    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Maybe it's just me, but if I were in charge of the Hawks and they get killed by the Magic again in the first round then I have to make a decision to float a bit above mediocrity with an aging 'franchise' player or blow it up.

    I can really see them being screwed in a couple of years with a similar team and no flexibility to improve. This trade won't make sense if Hawk management is content to have a decent team that won't contend for a championship. It depends if such a team will still draw in the fans in a few years.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by pathil275 View Post
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    Pacers send Granger to Clippers
    Clippers send Kaman to Atlanta
    Atlanta sends Smith to Indiana
    This sounds like a much more reasonable offer for all three involved. I don't know if I would for sure give up Granger for Smith straight up, but the appropriate needs are filled. I would think we would try to isolate the deal and try to get Smith without giving up Granger.

    I also think that Atlanta would try to get Kaman from the Clips for less than Smith. Maybe if we trade for Kaman by giving the Clippers cap space and a pick, then send Kaman and a pick to Atlanta for Smith. So...

    IND gets:

    Josh Smith
    2011 Second Rounder from Atlanta

    ATL gets:

    Chris Kaman
    2011 First Rounder from Indiana

    LAC gets:

    2011 Second Rounder from Indiana

    The Clippers will want to resign Jordan. This trade increases their ability to ensure they get him. Atlanta can finally move Horford to PF, with a legit C. Atlanta gets the first rounder they gave up for Hinrich. Indy gets the best player in the deal for relatively cheap, by taking on about $12M and giving up our first (not counting the swapping of second rounders).

    Good deal all around IMO, and we don't give up Granger.

  10. #9
    Member pathil275's Avatar
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Sure, I'd prefer your proposal over mine all day long. But I think it is a lowball offer really. I think my proposal is the maximum the Pacers would give up while your's is the minimum, so in reality we might meet somewhere in the middle. But when it comes down to it, I would give up Granger for Smith straight up. To receive value, you have to give up value and Smith just gives us a physical and athletic dimension we do not have (at his position in particular). He rebounds better than Granger, is a better post-up player and a way better defender.

  11. #10
    Rooting My Family 2 Glory CooperManning's Avatar
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    No one's gonna let us walk away with Josh Smith for the 15th pick in the draft.

    Pathil's trade might need to add Aminu to the Hawks, but it's fairly logical. I would do it, but I wouldn't be done. I'd trade Hansbrough, Rush, and our first for someone like Kevin Martin (I know his D sucks, but have fun for a second)

    Collison/Price
    Martin/Dahntay
    Paul George/re-sign Dunleavy
    J. Smith/re-sign McRoberts
    Hibbert/Euro?

  12. #11
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by pathil275 View Post
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    Sure, I'd prefer your proposal over mine all day long. But I think it is a lowball offer really. I think my proposal is the maximum the Pacers would give up while your's is the minimum, so in reality we might meet somewhere in the middle. But when it comes down to it, I would give up Granger for Smith straight up. To receive value, you have to give up value and Smith just gives us a physical and athletic dimension we do not have (at his position in particular). He rebounds better than Granger, is a better post-up player and a way better defender.
    Yeah, but when you say "value", most trades in the NBA are not equal from a talent perspective. We are giving the Clippers $12M in cap space and a second rounder (because it has to be something). Donald Sterling is a cheap b*stard, so I would see this as being especially attractive to him since the GM will want to re-sign Jordan.

    The Hawks are getting Kaman and #15 for Josh Smith. They basically are getting a slight downgrade in talent at a more important position for them for a first round pick they no longer have. They also save roughly $13M since Kaman's deal is one year shorter than Smith's.

    We are paying $25.8M and giving up both 2011 draft picks for Smith.

    Your "value" in terms of talent is considerably different than the trade value of millions of dollars and draft picks.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 04-12-2011 at 04:40 PM.

  13. #12

    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Like CooperManning said, its a good trade but we probably need to give up another asset in return. No way we get Josh Smith for our 2 picks this year. If we give up PG or DC then it will be lopsided against us. Thats why I think JJ should come this way to balance it out.

    I still think that Johnson's contract it a liability nowadays and most GMs would run away from it. It will do the same for Atlanta as all of our horrible contracts did to us for the past 3 years. They will be stuck. So we could throw in another asset

    I think Granger is more valuable as a Pacer once we surround him with more talent. His game has such a wide range of skills, it should more valuable around a good team.

    It seems like we keep coming back to ATL because our rosters match up so well. Can't wait until mid-August when I see the ATL trade on ESPN :}

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    #RiseOfTheKing imbtyler's Avatar
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    Quote Originally Posted by pathil275 View Post
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    Sure, I'd prefer your proposal over mine all day long. But I think it is a lowball offer really. I think my proposal is the maximum the Pacers would give up while your's is the minimum, so in reality we might meet somewhere in the middle. But when it comes down to it, I would give up Granger for Smith straight up. To receive value, you have to give up value and Smith just gives us a physical and athletic dimension we do not have (at his position in particular). He rebounds better than Granger, is a better post-up player and a way better defender.
    I say this:

    Atlanta gets:
    Chris Kaman
    Dahntay Jones

    Clippers get:
    Danny Granger
    Brandon Rush

    Pacers get:
    Josh Smith
    Eric Gordon

    Plus/minus picks, etc. And it works, too.

    Okay, okay, the chances of this happening are so slim that I had to think twice before even posting. If we could make it happen, though, we'd be perfectly set up to be 4-5th seed by next year's playoffs. It all comes down to the value of Danny over EJ, imo.

    Cross your fingers.
    witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

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    Talking Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    I wouldn't want johnson. He basically is a shooter just like granger without very good defense. I surely wouldnt get rid of george i think he has POTENTIAL to be a great player in the NBA, better than granger. Id Like to see a lineup of Collison,(sign J. Crawford, J.R. Smith or jason richardson), Granger,(Sign Zach Randolph,) and hibbert.
    You would have Collison who has upside and hopefully he gets better SOON. Crawford, Smith or Richardson who are all prove scorers who can create their own shot which leave danny open for the jumper not to mention he is getting better at taking it in, you have a double double with randolph, he can also score 25 on any givin night which would stretch the court for our shooters. And hibbert, the 10000000$$$ question can he get stronger and become a legit top 5 center?? Hopefully. We would have tyler, rush, george, price all on the bench. Rush could be a great player, but he just cant seem to get it together but maybe he can make a push to bee a consistent 10 point a game scorer. George as stated can be the best on the team, he just needs time. Price can bring energy and is improving and tyler is looking great. Throw in a gem of a draft pick(hopefully) and maybe another bench player surprise in free agency and we have a legit 6th seed...not much we can really do to turn this team into a Championship caliber team...This is just a quick off the dome 5 min post soo im not too in depth with it, this is just a quick if i had to choose my offseason plans right now type of thing...
    Craig "The Coon" Gehlhausen

  16. #15
    Rooting My Family 2 Glory CooperManning's Avatar
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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    If the Pacers had Collison/Gordon/George/J.Smith/Hibbert, they'd be top 3 in the East in the next 2-3 years. If only it was possible...

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    Default Re: The case against being active in the free agent market

    I can dig it.

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