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Thread: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

  1. #26

    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    What was the complaint about the OJ trade?
    It would have made our team worse, not better. Honestly I think it fell through because Bird wanted more than just Mayo for what he was offering. We know Larry, he won't make a trade unless it's a steal. The poster you qutoed who credited Bird with the Murphleavy could not be more wrong. Those were the two headed monster/brawl/shooting up Indy times. It's not like Bird dreamed of that move everynight and got his wish.

  2. #27
    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    This is offseason will make or break this team going forward.

  3. #28
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    So what happens when Hibbert Collison Hansbrough McRoberts and Rush are all veterans, Granger is playing the Robin role, and Paul George develops into one of the best players in the NBA? We won't be competing for a championship then? I mean what position do we need all this help from we can't get from the draft? Back-up center? Sorry buddy, you are the one living in an alternate universe. That is more talent than we've ever had since I've been a fan these past 18 years.
    That's a pretty heaping bowl full of ifs.

    I maintain you need a frosty glass of Free Agent and a plate of Locker Room Leader to make that a part of This Complete Breakfast of Champions.
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  4. #29

    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    [QUOTE=Midcoasted;1209282]

    So what happens when Hibbert Collison Hansbrough McRoberts and Rush are all veterans/QUOTE]


    What happens when Rush is traded this off season and McBob isn't re-signed?

    Oh btw, that player that was to have been in the trade with Charlotte last year where Rush was part of the trade, Henderson, scored 32 points last night. Bird knew something that apparently you don't.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 04-07-2011 at 03:20 PM.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    That's a pretty heaping bowl full of ifs.

    I maintain you need a frosty glass of Free Agent and a plate of Locker Room Leader to make that a part of This Complete Breakfast of Champions.
    Look at how the Colts brought a championship to Indy in far fewer years than the Pacers, if the Pacers ever do. Which I believe the FO when they say they will not stop short of a championship. The purpose of this is to bring a championship to Indiana. It gave me chills last night when I heard Vogel talking about this is how we do it. These are our guys. We build through the draft and the development of young talent.

    If Larry trades for anyone this summer it will not be veterans. He has proven time and time again that his goal is to build through the development of the young players. Sure we got Collison through a trade, but Vogel has really started developing him into a real threat.

    I see a draft day trade is more likely than us throwing way to much money on a trash veteran like Ben Gordon. That is way to risky. It would be a dire mistake for us do such. That's how we got Hibbert, McRoberts, and Rush, through draft day trades. All solid draft picks for where they were selected. Sure other teams picked them and traded us their rights, and in Josh's case, he developed on the bench a year in Portland, but these are our guys.

    I'll say it again. These are our guys. This is how we build, through the draft and development of young talent. Just like the Colts a few blocks away. It will bring us a championship if Larry stays his course.

    If anything this is a plea for Larry to hang around a couple of more years and allow Vogel to do the same and see this thing out. I'm thinking best case scenario only because I believe we will win a championship in my lifetime and this is the best chance we've had since 1998 and noone lives forever.

    I haven't been more proud of a Pacers team since we took Jordan to game 7, in the series where Reggie proved he deserves to be a first ballot hall of famer in an NBA Hall of Fame. The years after that the glory was lost and no matter how good we were in the regular season, our team had holes and fatal flaws that made a championship almost impossible after 1998, well that and Shaq lol. Trading Antonio Davis for anyone was Walsh's biggest mistake, and it hurts even more it ended up being for Bender. I think that's ultimately what prevented us from stopping Shaq Daddy that year in the Finals.

    Those teams were not as good as the 98 team still though. We regressed and kept regressing to the point where about 2007-2009 was the bottom. Retooling for Artest and company was a huge mistake as well regardless of how many games we won because it decimated our fanbase. I think we will keep improving from here on and hopefully to the Caliber of the 98 team, only we bring it home this time.

    Other teams figured us out when we lost 8 out of 9, but for once, we adjusted. Thank you Vogel. We're in the playoffs. Let's steal one in Chicago in bring it back home with true purpose!!!
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 04-07-2011 at 03:19 PM.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    i want us to be a solid playoff team not we'll make the playoffs this season and then blow it next season like some teams from the east did this season

    this is a nice start but this team needs more

    we have some good young guys on this team but we'll need to bring in more talent
    In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

  7. #32

    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    [QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1209360]
    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    So what happens when Hibbert Collison Hansbrough McRoberts and Rush are all veterans/QUOTE]


    What happens when Rush is traded this off season and McBob isn't re-signed?
    We become less talented? Maybe we can sign some scrubs like Solo and Posey to replace them and play over them?

    I think Rush may not be safe, because of his pot issues, but he seems to be the type of guy you want coming off the bench on a championship contender. Why let him go if he has decided to only smoke on the offseason? Plays great perimeter defense and can hit the three in crunch time. He can be had for cheap.

    I also think letting McRoberts go would be a mistake because he is the best passer on the team, or at least in the conversation with Collison and Stephenson. He just gets the hustle plays that matter. I see him as a Jeff Foster with a more polished all around game. Why let him walk if he can be had for 3-4 mil a year for 3 years? Hasn't he only improved with time and is only 23 years old? He would only be 26 when his deal is up.
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 04-07-2011 at 03:27 PM.

  8. #33
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    I've been watching the Pacers since you were born and I'm only 27. You are one of the most pessimistic posters on the board. You know nothing about Indiana basketball or how high our players potentials are and you proved it with like 10 words. I really think the quality of posts here at PD have went down since you've spewed out 8000 posts in a year with some of the worse garbage I've ever seen come out of a diehards mouth.
    ....because he's trying to be realistic? You're crossing the line here.

    spewing venom is not the same thing as pointing out reality. Don't attack posters because they aren't kool-aid addicts.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Pollard View Post
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    i want us to be a solid playoff team not we'll make the playoffs this season and then blow it next season like some teams from the east did this season

    this is a nice start but this team needs more

    we have some good young guys on this team but we'll need to bring in more talent
    I'd still like to see these guys get a full summer under this coach that won't smash their confidence into the ground with a 10 lb sledge hammer after a decent start to the season. I could see us taking the 4-6 spot in the East next year with this group.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ....because he's trying to be realistic? You're crossing the line here.

    spewing venom is not the same thing as pointing out reality. Don't attack posters because they aren't kool-aid addicts.
    Well there has to be a balance with everything in life. He attacked me first and made a mockery of my whole argument by saying most of it should be green, when only a small portion should be considered a candidate for green in my mind.

    Don't attack posters because they aren't negativity addicts. This is the only reputable Pacers board on the net. We don't have enough homers here. We have way to many pessimists and doubters. If this is the only way I can help to balance that then so be it. I'll take the most extreme stand and stand alone. Many other posters can congregate on the other side of the spectrum and think we have no shot and our talent just isn't good enough. They can also think there's all this talent running around out there that we will have to acquire before we compete. It isn't easy to come by.

    Talent isn't everything. Chemisty, cohesion, and team play all define a team. Not just this notion that we have to become more talented with big moves that could backfire and tie our hands for years to come this offseason.

  11. #36
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Well there has to be a balance with everything in life. He attacked me first and made a mockery of my whole argument by saying most of it should be green, when only a small portion should be considered a candidate for green in my mind.
    I said the same thing....others have implied the same thing.

    Don't attack posters because they aren't negativity addicts. This is the only reputable Pacers board on the net. We don't have enough homers here.
    ...you ever consider that might be why this is the only reputable Pacers board on the net? Nobody wants to step into a rah-rah fest that lives outside of reality.

    We have way to many pessimists and doubters. If this is the only way I can help to balance that then so be it. I'll take the most extreme stand and stand alone.
    ....that isn't balancing anything out. It's making it worse.

    Talent isn't everything. Chemisty, cohesion, and team play all define a team. Not just this notion that we have to become more talented with big moves that could backfire and tie our hands for years to come this offseason.
    ....all of which have nothign to do with everything that preceded it.

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  13. #37
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I read the first post and thought, "This is a really good parody."

    Then I read all the subsequent posts...
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    When I think of a team making the playoffs, I don't think of it being 36-43. Those 36 wins can turn into another 1 or 2 wins, but still an under .500 team. Basically, this team will finish with the same record of Jimmy's 1st 2 seasons. Bird's 1st 3 years as PBO is 102-144 with this year so far as 36-43. That's not exactly something to hang one's hat on. The ONLY reason this team is in the playoffs is b/c the EC has terrible teams. To me it's a consolation prize of being the better of the worst, and that doesn't say much to me.

    I won't go into Bird's assets or liabilities, as I'm on record as to what they are, BUT I will give credit when credit is due in that Bird has changed the culture of the team he took over as PBO. That in itself has been a wonderful achievement when others on this board would trade for non-milk drinkers and their baggage all for winning no matter what the cost.

    As far as the thread, it is homerism at it's finest no matter how misconstrude, BUT I can understand the over zealous optimism with making the playoffs. I can see where Bird has laid a foundation for another to build the future, and I can say thanks Mr. Bird for all your effort you put into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    I laid out a well thought out homer post, and noone can even dispute it with facts. Am I dellusional? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. There's a chance I'm right. I still don't think anyone can show me a GM that has done more with less.

    Pacer4Ever, shouldn't you be watching the promising Clippers finish with a worse record than us? I read your posts and you really think Eric Gordon is better than everyone on our team and I lol. People really think the Clippers have more talent than we do? Damn that talent has them all of 31 wins right now, and I'd bet our team and starting 5 is younger. How long have they been in lottery land and went nowhere? Since they were in existence? Sure they play in the Western Conference, but all the more reason they will be in lottery land no matter how good Griffin and Gordon become.

    It doesn't surprise me at all that some of the posters calling this a paradox, or saying my whole post should be green font, are the posters on this board who would use things like "least talented team in NBA" to describe our boys. We didn't go 19-16 by only beating up on the bad. We made it by beating the Knicks twice, Charlotte handily, the Bucks, the Bulls, and the Celtics. Imagine if we would have beat all the teams worse than us what our record would be.

    I'm sick and tired of posters here saying Hibbert is the worst starting center in the NBA, Collison is no good, Bird only drafted Hans because he is white, McRoberts doesn't belong in the NBA, George will take three years to even play. It goes on and on. What, I'm just supposed to the believe all this negative hype and live in "reality" when alot of posters here use their negative "realities" like everyone one is supposed to believe it as fact?

    Well I might not be totally right, but I'm closer to being right than the posters who look down on our Pacers. At least bandwagon fans believe in their team and players, or they wouldn't hop on the bandwagon. What's the point of even being a fan if you think so lowly of everything that Pacers have done the past few years?

    pessimistic? I guess all the posters in this thread are pessimistic also and they are all mocking you also? Why people take stuff personal i will never know it is pretty sad that you do. Im just being real. Saying the Pacers have a better Core than Clippers is so laughable. Most experts consider the Clippers young core 2nd only to OKC. I have never said EJ is better than any Pacer however the Clippers value EJ very very very higly that is why i say they are not trading him for the players on the Pacers. They refused to trade him for Melo who is better than anyone on the Pacers and Melo has more trade Value than anyone on the Pacers. It is how the Pacers viewed DG a few years ago when they made himn untradeable. Im sorry i am not a homer in the way most on PD are and if you are gonna attack me for not being a homer just keep bashing.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ....because he's trying to be realistic? You're crossing the line here.

    spewing venom is not the same thing as pointing out reality. Don't attack posters because they aren't kool-aid addicts.
    Very true if we had the Lakers roster or OKC or Chicago you know i would be the first one to pat Larry Bird on the back

    for buliding a great team and would proably be a homer going about it.

  15. #39
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I have never said EJ is better than any Pacer however the Clippers value EJ very very very higly that is why i say they are not trading him for the players on the Pacers.
    I'll say he's better than any Pacer.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  17. #40
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    I've been watching the Pacers since you were born and I'm only 27. You are one of the most pessimistic posters on the board. You know nothing about Indiana basketball or how high our players potentials are and you proved it with like 10 words. I really think the quality of posts here at PD have went down since you've spewed out 8000 posts in a year with some of the worse garbage I've ever seen come out of a diehards mouth.
    What no get off my lawn? Seriously get off your high horse. Pessimistic? The poor kids been riding Paul George's jock since we drafted him. I'd say he's had a healthy mix of pessimism and optimism.

    And you wanna talk about a post that brings down the quality of discussion on PD we might as well just frame this one as the prime example.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 04-07-2011 at 04:13 PM.

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  18. #41
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I'll say he's better than any Pacer.
    Yeah, I'd probably agree with this.

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  19. #42
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Whatever this dude is smoking has got to be awesome.

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  21. #43
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    I don't think this was really Bird's true goal.

    Yeah it was to make the playoffs, but I didn't think he wanted to do it with us a still being a sub .500 team.

    This team still needs a lot of work and bring in some key players via trade or free agency.

  22. #44
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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I'll say he's better than any Pacer.
    He'd be the best player here since Reggie.

    I'd love to add EJ. He'd make us a hell of a playoff team for years.

    He plays like a star SG.

    I'd live with not settling and signing anyone this offseason and make a strong push to get EJ in 2012 most likely by S&T.
    Last edited by Trophy; 04-07-2011 at 04:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird = Winning, 3 Year Plan a Success

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    If Larry trades for anyone this summer it will not be veterans. He has proven time and time again that his goal is to build through the development of the young players. Sure we got Collison through a trade, but Vogel has really started developing him into a real threat...

    If anything this is a plea for Larry to hang around a couple of more years and allow Vogel to do the same and see this thing out...
    Are you absolutely certain you would want Bird to stay?

    I'm asking because Bird is the highest ranking member of the TPTB and he has stated throughout the year that this team is lacking a veteran presence.

    So, Bird's goal is not to build THROUGH the development of young players, but rather because of the increase in value of his tradeable assets by developing these young players.

    If Bird is not able to trade for a starting veteran or two this summer, or sign a couple as free agents, it will NOT be because of a lack of trying. If you continue to believe otherwise, it is only because you have not been listening and reading.

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