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Thread: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

  1. #76

    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    I love Gordon Hayward but Paul George is probably the better fit for the Pacers. George's ceiling is way higher.

    I've been to 3 Pacers games (including the Jazz game) this year and I'll be honest that I would have gone to a few more games if Hayward was on the team.

  2. #77
    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Well i guess Sloan wasn't using common sense was he then...Cause Haywards minutes were all over the chart. He'd play 5 minutes one game, 15 the next, over 30 here and there. No pattern what so ever.
    You completely missed the point. His minutes were likely all over the place because he was that inconsistent.

    If he played 5 minutes and didn't play well, he doesn't play anymore in that game. If he played well for those 5 minutes, then he will be given more playing time on that day. That doesn't require a pattern, and it doesn't mean Sloan wasn't using common sense. Hence the strange idea that people get sometimes about "when he gets minutes, he plays well!", when the fact is he got the minutes because he was playing well. Otherwise he'd have played 5 minutes like the game before.

  3. #78
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    A couple things:

    -If Utah could do the draft over, they'd take George over Hayward.
    They wouldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    -Paul George is better than Gordon Hayward right now. Fact.
    Not a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    -Paul George's ceiling is 10x higher than Hayward's.
    Higher? Yes. 10x? Not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    -The same people that are praising Hayward while dumping on George just happen to be the same people that are saying that Matt Howard is a legit NBA prospect and comparable to Tyler Hansbrough. Hmm...
    I did say Hansbrough's game and Howard's games are comparable. Because they are. I also said I didn't think he was an NBA prospect because he's smaller and less athletic than the comparable guy who is already small and unathletic in the NBA.

    And nobody is dumping on George.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  4. #79

    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    If Brian Cardinal can play in the NBA for over a decade, Matt Howard can be an NBA prospect.

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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    It is true that only buying a ticket to 1 game is a lot easier than a full season, but I'd imagine that some of the people who bought a ticket to see him would consider it.

    The posted attendance of that game was 16,205. The average attendance on the season has been 13,458.

    From being there, I'd say it was in the top 5 biggest crowds of the season. Unlike the average, which is probably actually much lower, I'd say that single game was pretty close to the actual number of seats filled. Keep in mind, that was a Jazz team that had just traded its best player, so it wasn't like that would be a hot ticket normally.

    Many, many of those people who showed up that night were there to see Hayward. Did you go to that game by any chance?
    Come on, Mackey.

    The reason that game was sold out is that it was the only opportunity to see Hayward play in person this season for a lot of folks. So, sure it's going to be a hot ticket.

    If you put Hayward in a Pacer uniform and provide the fans with the opportunity to see him for 4 preseason games, 41 regular season games and a couple of playoff games, then there would have been 47 opportunities to see him play. So, viewing it from that perspective, the average attendance for home games would not have been affected nearly as much as for the one game. Since our record would probably be about the same whether we had George or Hayward, I doubt the attendance would have been affected much at all.

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  7. #81
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    They wouldn't.
    If they wouldn't than the front office should be unemployed.


    Not a fact.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...georgpa01.html

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...haywago01.html

    I'm going to let the numbers speak for themselves, not to even mention that Paul George can play defense, rebound, pass, and create his own shot better than Gordon Hayward.

    Higher? Yes. 10x? Not at all.
    Which is an obvious exaggeration. It's probably 3x.

    I did say Hansbrough's game and Howard's games are comparable. Because they are. I also said I didn't think he was an NBA prospect because he's smaller and less athletic than the comparable guy who is already small and unathletic in the NBA.
    Fair enough, but I just don't see the comparison because overall Tyler was just better. More of a banger with better PPG totals and better percentages. Not to mention for the bulk of Matt's career he had foul problems.

  8. #82
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaas0532 View Post
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    Still doubting Gordon Hayward?
    Yes.

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  10. #83

    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Come on, Mackey.

    The reason that game was sold out is that it was the only opportunity to see Hayward play in person this season for a lot of folks. So, sure it's going to be a hot ticket.

    If you put Hayward in a Pacer uniform and provide the fans with the opportunity to see him for 4 preseason games, 41 regular season games and a couple of playoff games, then there would have been 47 opportunities to see him play. So, viewing it from that perspective, the average attendance for home games would not have been affected nearly as much as for the one game. Since our record would probably be about the same whether we had George or Hayward, I doubt the attendance would have been affected much at all.
    Right.
    Connecticut has a WNBA team. Everytime one of the former players come to town, (The big ones, Taurasi and Bird) it sells out.

    They have pretty good attendance in general for that league, but it's not a sell out (there's about a 4000 person difference, I'd say) The Connecticut team has 2 currently (and 4 last season) former Huskies. One of which was an All American point guard, and the other, until this season, held the school record in points and rebounds and was ROY in the WNBA.

    People come to see their favorite player once they go pro, if it's a rare opportunity. They won't do it enough to make an impact if you can always go.

  11. #84
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    For the love of all things holy, I really like Gordon Hayward but his fanboys are so incredibly annoying. The amount of fellating he gets on this board and in Indiana overall is amazing. The fact that people here claim to be Pacers fans while simultaneously touting a video of him posterizing one of our players makes me sick.

    That being said, I'd love to get him tacked on to a Jefferson trade in the offseason if we go that route.

  12. #85
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Paul George clearly saw this thread.

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  14. #86
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Paul George tonight, 16 points, 3 boards, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal in the first half.

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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Not even commenting on Hayward as I haven't watched him much this year but I think a lot of you may be over estimating George. He has shown me nothing so far that makes me think he is a future franchise player or All Star for that matter. Is he even in the top 10 of his rookie class right now?
    i'm not even sure if PG is in the top 20 right now. If Paul George has shown potential to be a "superstar" then Jordan Crawford has shown potential to be better than Jordan.

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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Yeah, because careers are decided completely on the rookie season.

    No one expected Paul George to even come off the bench this year. He was a consensus project among all scouts. Any statistics he can produce are just gravy.

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  18. #89
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Not to even mention that now is not the time to troll on George.

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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaas0532 View Post
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    i'm not even sure if PG is in the top 20 right now. If Paul George has shown potential to be a "superstar" then Jordan Crawford has shown potential to be better than Jordan.
    Yeah Crawford and his 37% from the field is scaring the **** out of Jordan and his place in the NBA history books right now.

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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Yeah Crawford and his 37% from the field is scaring the **** out of Jordan and his place in the NBA history books right now.
    POTY Nomination?

  22. #92
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Hayward had a really good game last night on the road against a really good team.

    It was nice to see from the local kid.

    Pretty much sums up this subject I think? Good talk, see you out there

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  24. #93
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    POTY Nomination?
    almost as awesome as your namesake, sir.

    if PG got 20 shots a game like crawford is doing on a ****ty wizards team, he'd be averaging crawfords ppg, and then some too.

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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Did you guys see PG's last shot? The basketball gods willed it into the hoop just so he could surpass Hayward's point total last night by one and make Graphic-er eat crow.

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  27. #95
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    As Nelson from the Simpsons would say about this thread...

    HA, HA!

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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    He pretty much matched him in every stat. Had one more point, but one less assist. 3 less TO's though. Oh and 8 less minutes.

  29. #97
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    a guy who would at worst be a Mike Dunleavy and could conceivably be a better defensive version of Mike Dunleavy.
    Gordon's worst case scenario is Mike Dunleavy? I find that pretty optimistic. And I'm not down on Gordon, I just don't think there are many rookies whose "worst case" is Mike Dunleavy.
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  31. #98

    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Okay. As someone who has seen every Utah game this season, and the slight majority of Pacers games this season, I feel as if I need to weigh in on this thread.

    Paul George is no better than Gordon Hayward right now, and vice versa. Both have had predictably inconsistent seasons. They're rookies. Both have had many flashes of brilliance, and games where they simply looked lost.

    I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I suspect if you were to look at the stats, you would find that George has had a better season from start to finish, but that Hayward has been the better player during the second half of the season.

    For the first half of the season, Hayward simply looked scared. He couldn't hit a shot, he turned the ball over, he did not look good. The funny thing was, he could get open. He was always in the right spot. He always seemed to have the right idea -- but he simply could not make the plays. His shooting percentage was in the high 20's.

    In the second half of the season, he has become a scintillating player. To take his shooting percentages from the 20's to where they are now, (about 45% overall and 45% from 3 point range) is a remarkable turnaround. He has really found his touch.

    In terms of skills, I think Hayward and George can do similar things. They can both put the ball on the floor. They can both rebound. They can both pass. They can both shoot the 3. They both show signs of deceptiveness and intelligent play. George is clearly the more explosive player, although Hayward has shown surprising athleticism at times.

    From here, I think they will develop in different directions. George will likely end up as a 20+ ppg scorer and a potential all-star. I think Hayward will be more of a point forward, a role-player, a Ginobili type. (Though perhaps he will never be as good as Ginobili was during his best seasons.) He'll be an opportunity scorer and distributor. I doubt he ever averages more than 17 points a game. Yet I think he can average 6 assists or so.

    As a Jazz fan and (secondarily) a Pacers fan, I think the future is bright for both players. I think they're both on the teams that fit them best.

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  33. #99
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phree Refill View Post
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    Did you guys see PG's last shot? The basketball gods willed it into the hoop just so he could surpass Hayward's point total last night by one and make Graphic-er eat crow.
    LOL.....uh yeah against the Wizards.... get back to me when George does it against a team like the Lakers. I mean geez that was an epic fail by you. The Wiz don't have any pride at all.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  34. #100
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    Default Re: Still doubting Gordon Hayward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Gordon's worst case scenario is Mike Dunleavy? I find that pretty optimistic. And I'm not down on Gordon, I just don't think there are many rookies whose "worst case" is Mike Dunleavy.
    Kobe compared him to Jeff Hornacek. I think thats a pretty good goal.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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