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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

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  • #16
    Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    [QUOTE=troyc11a;1208017]
    Originally posted by mattie View Post

    We can count Manu's, Kobe's rings, and that number comes to a lot higher number than say if we were to add up Deron Williams, Steve Nash's, Jason Kidd's, and Chris Paul's.


    In the last 10 years 50% of the titles have been won by a team with an elite pg. Take out the lakers and only one team (Miami) has done it without one.
    None of those guys were elite.

    Even this year, as Rondo has turned into what most people consider an elite point guard for the first thime in his career, all his fans in Boston want him traded. They say he turns the ball over too much and he still cannot shoot.

    I realize that this is sortof boiling down to semantics on what a true elite point guard is- But maybe we should instead argue on what kind of point guard it takes to actually win a title?

    I'd say point guard that isn't the greatest passer, yet one who doesn't turn the ball over, one who has a decent jump shot, and plays decent defense will win a championship. I'd also say those type of point guards are much easier to find than someone like Manu Ginobili. I'd also describe that point guard as Tony Parker.

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    • #17
      Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

      You know what would be interesting? Go back and see how many pg's and how many sg's are taken in the top 5 of the draft each year. That should settle the argument over which is most important.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

        Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
        I strongly disagree with some of what you said. Billups was most definitely a star then and Rondo has been back to the finals twice. Parker and Billups are probably Hall of Famers. Billups is a slam dunk.
        I hate quoting stats.. But really look at his numbers that year.

        17 ppg on 39% shooting with 5 assits per game.

        DC this year in his second season

        13 ppg with 45% shooting with 5 assists per game.

        Billups is a very good point guard. He was just a star in the making that year. Nothing elite about him then.

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        • #19
          Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

          Wouldnt trade him and I don't think that he has a really high trade value right now anyways.

          I just hope he can get his 3pt shooting together...

          I still would love to see what Evan Turner can do at the point on a different team.

          He still has all star potential with the right team, I would be interested trading for him.

          I'm probably the minority on that one as well, lol.
          Why so SERIOUS

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          • #20
            Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

            Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
            I strongly disagree with some of what you said. Billups was most definitely a star then and Rondo has been back to the finals twice. Parker and Billups are probably Hall of Famers. Billups is a slam dunk.

            I am sorry, but you could put a bag of wet crap with pierce, allen, and garnett and you would be in the finals, and the bag of crap would average 10 assists per game.

            I think rondo is a very good point guard. I would like to see his production on a sub par team.

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            • #21
              Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

              Since 2000, the number of players taken at each position in the top 5:

              Point Guards: 16
              Shoot Guards: 7


              No doubt then that GM's put a premium on pg's more than sg's. And I didnt know the facts until just now!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                Originally posted by dohman View Post
                I am sorry, but you could put a bag of wet crap with pierce, allen, and garnett and you would be in the finals, and the bag of crap would average 10 assists per game.

                I think rondo is a very good point guard. I would like to see his production on a sub par team.
                To be honest, I hear the exact opposite about other players. Most would agree that production increases when you play on a bad team. Reggie even said about Granger, "Someone has to score on a bad team"

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                • #23
                  Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                  Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
                  You know what would be interesting? Go back and see how many pg's and how many sg's are taken in the top 5 of the draft each year. That should settle the argument over which is most important.
                  Ok so again, if thats what you believe wouldn't it be the smartest thing to trade Paul George for a PG? Would you trade him for John Wall, or Stephen Curry, or someone else you think would be an elite point guard?

                  Also, I'd really like to believe that elite point guards are the key to success. I really would, and I'm not attempting to argue for the sake of argument. Help me understand. I'm being serious....

                  If I go back to the 1990-91 season, I've seen a top 5 shooting guard win 14 championships. This is a fact.

                  Now since that date how many top 5 point guards have won??? Prior to winning a championship if you take the 3 players you named NONE of them would be considered elite point guards. I mean it seems as if once they win one then suddenly they were elite! They were certainly not top 5.

                  Ok, so maybe if they were elite? Than maybe our definition of elite needs to change! Guards like Deron Williams, Derrick Rose and Steve Nash must not be elite then right? Billups is a far superior point guard. Is that the truth?

                  By the way, after winning their first championship with tony parker, the spurs wanted to trade him.... FYI.
                  Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011, 10:20 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                    Originally posted by mattie View Post
                    Ok so again, if thats what you believe wouldn't it be the smartest thing to trade Paul George for a PG? Would you trade him for John Wall, or Stephen Curry, or someone else you think would be an elite point guard?

                    Also, I'd really like to believe that elite point guards are the key to success. I really would, and I'm not attempting to argue for the sake of argument. Help me understand. I'm being serious....

                    If I go back to the 1990-91 season, I've seen a top 5 shooting guard win 14 championships. This is a fact.

                    Now since that date how many top 5 point guards have won??? Prior to winning a championship if you take the 3 players you named NONE of them would be considered elite point guards. I mean it seems as if once they one then suddenly they were elite! They were certainly not top 5.

                    Ok, so maybe if they were elite? Than maybe our definition of elite needs to change! Guards like Deron Williams, Derrick Rose and Steve Nash must not be elite then right? Billups is a far superior point guard. Is that the truth?

                    Yes I would trade him for Wall. I am not up on Curry though. Dont know enough about him. Can he play "D"?
                    There is only one reason you went back that far: Michael Jordan! You take out him and Kobe and only 1 elite sg wins a title.
                    How many Jordan's or Kobe's are out there?

                    Why not go back to the 1980s then:
                    Magic = 5 rings
                    D. Johnson = 2 rings
                    I. Thomas = 2 rings

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                      Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
                      There is only one reason you went back that far: Michael Jordan! You take out him and Kobe and only 1 elite sg wins a title.
                      How many Jordan's or Kobe's are out there?

                      Why not go back to the 1980s then:
                      Magic = 5 rings
                      D. Johnson = 2 rings
                      I. Thomas = 2 rings
                      Manu Ginobili and Kobe Bryant have more rings combined than MJ. So it probably would have actually helped my argument if I didn't include the 90's

                      Edit- Magic one 4 titles as a PG. So one year we have proof that virtually the same team that one 5 titles? literally removed their elite point guard and still won a title.

                      Now I know for a fact that if Derrick Rose has an elite player playing at almost any other position they'd probably win a title. I think there is no question if you have elite players on a team they'll win a title. THat's why Magic, James Worthy and Kareem all won titles. They were a great team.

                      The real question is whether Derrick can win a title now as the only elite player on his team???
                      Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011, 10:27 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                        Originally posted by mattie View Post
                        Manu Ginobili and Kobe Bryant have more rings combined than MJ. So it probably would have actually helped my argument if I didn't include the 90's
                        Kobe or Michael either one skew the argument. These were players who were all time great and carried teams. How many like them are there?
                        Manu is good but if you want to add him in then you have to take every teams' pg and sg. That doesnt make sense
                        There is a reason GM's value pg's twice as much as they do sg's. That is a fact not opinion. Look at the draft results.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                          Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
                          Kobe or Michael either one skew the argument. These were players who were all time great and carried teams. How many like them are there?
                          Manu is good but if you want to add him in then you have to take every teams' pg and sg. That doesnt make sense
                          There is a reason GM's value pg's twice as much as they do sg's. That is a fact not opinion. Look at the draft results.
                          Ok. So you're saying shooting guards are more important as they can carry their teams to titles. Because in the last 20 years? The best PG in the nba has absolutely failed at winning a title. Period.

                          I think no matter what happens, you'll argue that somehow point guards are more important even if you end up contradicting yourself.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                            By the way as an interesting side note, in the last 20 years? The best player at each individual position excluding point guard has one a title at one time. This is indisputable.
                            Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011, 10:37 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                              Also, I need to adjust my numbers from earlier.

                              Actually a top 5 shooting guard has been on EVERY championship team in the last 10 years. Edit- Except the Pistons. Of course some would argue when they won? Rip was a top 5 shooting guard.

                              Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Dwayne Wade, and Paul Pierce.
                              Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011, 10:50 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                                Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
                                Kobe or Michael either one skew the argument. These were players who were all time great and carried teams. How many like them are there?
                                Manu is good but if you want to add him in then you have to take every teams' pg and sg. That doesnt make sense
                                There is a reason GM's value pg's twice as much as they do sg's. That is a fact not opinion. Look at the draft results.


                                So in the 1990s you can look back at the jazz.

                                One of the greatest point guards of all time. Great defender, Great shooter, Great passer

                                One of the greatest if not the greatest power forwards of all time




                                I think it goes to show that a good shooting guard out weighs a good point guard.

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