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Thread: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

  1. #26

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Manu Ginobili and Kobe Bryant have more rings combined than MJ. So it probably would have actually helped my argument if I didn't include the 90's
    Kobe or Michael either one skew the argument. These were players who were all time great and carried teams. How many like them are there?
    Manu is good but if you want to add him in then you have to take every teams' pg and sg. That doesnt make sense
    There is a reason GM's value pg's twice as much as they do sg's. That is a fact not opinion. Look at the draft results.

  2. #27
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Kobe or Michael either one skew the argument. These were players who were all time great and carried teams. How many like them are there?
    Manu is good but if you want to add him in then you have to take every teams' pg and sg. That doesnt make sense
    There is a reason GM's value pg's twice as much as they do sg's. That is a fact not opinion. Look at the draft results.
    Ok. So you're saying shooting guards are more important as they can carry their teams to titles. Because in the last 20 years? The best PG in the nba has absolutely failed at winning a title. Period.

    I think no matter what happens, you'll argue that somehow point guards are more important even if you end up contradicting yourself.

  3. #28
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    By the way as an interesting side note, in the last 20 years? The best player at each individual position excluding point guard has one a title at one time. This is indisputable.
    Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011 at 10:37 PM.

  4. #29
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Also, I need to adjust my numbers from earlier.

    Actually a top 5 shooting guard has been on EVERY championship team in the last 10 years. Edit- Except the Pistons. Of course some would argue when they won? Rip was a top 5 shooting guard.

    Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Dwayne Wade, and Paul Pierce.
    Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011 at 10:50 PM.

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    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Kobe or Michael either one skew the argument. These were players who were all time great and carried teams. How many like them are there?
    Manu is good but if you want to add him in then you have to take every teams' pg and sg. That doesnt make sense
    There is a reason GM's value pg's twice as much as they do sg's. That is a fact not opinion. Look at the draft results.


    So in the 1990s you can look back at the jazz.

    One of the greatest point guards of all time. Great defender, Great shooter, Great passer

    One of the greatest if not the greatest power forwards of all time




    I think it goes to show that a good shooting guard out weighs a good point guard.

  6. #31
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    I'm at a loss at how this "point guard = win" came about. Because we've seen a truly elite non-point guard on every Championship team except the Pistons.

    We've seen plenty of championships without truly elite point guards. In fact I'd say everyone in the last 20 years hasn't had an elite point guard. The argument that Billups, Parker and Rondo are elite is made I think only to give their original argument ground to stand on.

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  8. #32

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    I'm sorry. This if dumb. Paul george is potentially a super star. You don't trade him.

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  10. #33

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    The mentality of this team by some people on this board is quite humorous.

    Ever since he started, which is what everyone wanted, the lovefest for him has fallen and now if you want to trade Paul George, that pretty much says you have no patience.

    Sorry if players can't be perfect every game. Especially a rookie.

    Trading him would be one of the biggest mistakes. We may have the next Indy hero in the making.
    In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

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  12. #34
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by dohman View Post
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    So in the 1990s you can look back at the jazz.

    One of the greatest point guards of all time. Great defender, Great shooter, Great passer

    One of the greatest if not the greatest power forwards of all time




    I think it goes to show that a good shooting guard out weighs a good point guard.
    That doesn't count. Jordan outweighs a good ANYTHING. Jordan denied a lot of great players at multiple positions during his reign.

  13. #35

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    I don't care how wrong everyone tells me I am . Two years from now , Paul George will be a top 10 player in the NBA.

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  15. #36
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Pollard View Post
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    The mentality of this team by some people on this board is quite humorous.

    Ever since he started, which is what everyone wanted, the lovefest for him has fallen and now if you want to trade Paul George, that pretty much says you have no patience.

    Sorry if players can't be perfect every game. Especially a rookie.

    Trading him would be one of the biggest mistakes. We may have the next Indy hero in the making.
    That's not fair. Or you didn't understand me.

    I agree, I get tired of hearing "trade so and so" everytime there is a loss. In my dream world were I'm GM I actually wouldn't trade anyone. I would try to sign a defensive oriented PF through free agency, and I'd wait for Paul George to be great.

    I love Paul George, and I'd cry if we traded him for Deron Williams. I'm not kidding.

    I'm merely talking not from desire, but from the hypothetical perspective of whether or not it would be smart to trade Paul George, who has potential in spades, for a player that is good right now?

    Edit- I don't blame you for getting my intent wrong though- It is to be expected as half this board jumps off the deep end the second our young .500 team actually plays like a young .500 team. (that means losing every other game)
    Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011 at 11:19 PM.

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  17. #37

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    I don't care how wrong everyone tells me I am . Two years from now , Paul George will be a top 10 player in the NBA.
    That is why I dont want to trade him unless they get an all star caliber pg in return. Nobody is trading that kind of pg for George. So its best to keep him.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Also, I need to adjust my numbers from earlier.

    Actually a top 5 shooting guard has been on EVERY championship team in the last 10 years. Edit- Except the Pistons. Of course some would argue when they won? Rip was a top 5 shooting guard.

    Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, Dwayne Wade, and Paul Pierce.
    Paul Pierce is a small forward. And Kobe has won 5 of those.

    There is not right or wrong answer to this thread. What it comes down to is you need damn good players to win a title. And usually you need multiple ones. Each SG brought up in this thread had a star with them, even Jordan had Pippen. Kobe had Shaq and Pau, Manu had Duncan (who was the most important piece on those teams, not Manu) and Parker, Wade had Shaq. And even though Pierce is a SF he had KG and Ray Allen.

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  20. #39
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Paul Pierce is a small forward. And Kobe has won 5 of those.

    There is not right or wrong answer to this thread. What it comes down to is you need damn good players to win a title. And usually you need multiple ones. Each SG brought up in this thread had a star with them, even Jordan had Pippen. Kobe had Shaq and Pau, Manu had Duncan (who was the most important piece on those teams, not Manu) and Parker, Wade had Shaq. And even though Pierce is a SF he had KG and Ray Allen.
    You're exactly right. The point is you need truly great players. Not a truly great point guard. That's what I'm getting at. There has been a running theme that if we don't get a great point guard we cannot win a championship. That is completely false. That is my only argument. lol. It is a myth I'm trying to dispel.
    Last edited by mattie; 04-05-2011 at 11:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    [QUOTE=mattie;1208022]
    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    None of those guys were elite.

    Even this year, as Rondo has turned into what most people consider an elite point guard for the first thime in his career, all his fans in Boston want him traded. They say he turns the ball over too much and he still cannot shoot.


    What are you talking about? They love Rondo.

  22. #41

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    That's not fair. Or you didn't understand me.

    I agree, I get tired of hearing "trade so and so" everytime there is a loss. In my dream world were I'm GM I actually wouldn't trade anyone. I would try to sign a defensive oriented PF through free agency, and I'd wait for Paul George to be great.

    I love Paul George, and I'd cry if we traded him for Deron Williams. I'm not kidding.

    I'm merely talking not from desire, but from the hypothetical perspective of whether or not it would be smart to trade Paul George, who has potential in spades, for a player that is good right now?

    Edit- I don't blame you for getting my intent wrong though- It is to be expected as half this board jumps off the deep end the second our young .500 team actually plays like a young .500 team. (that means losing every other game)
    I apologize for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean it towards you at all.

    I knew what you meant how valuable his Paul George currently.

    I was just stating how much Paul George is going to mean to this team no matter who we may decide to acquire around him.

    Many believe Paul George is going to be a TMAC type of player and also the best player from the 2010 draft.

    I'm excited and ever since we drafted him, I feel like it would be okay to trade Danny for a player we can really need.
    In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

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  24. #42
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    [QUOTE=Taterhead;1208075]
    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    What are you talking about? They love Rondo.
    I actually apologize for that. That was hyperbole. They don't all want him traded. However, Many of them over the last 2 months or so have been livid with him. If you read the Boston message boards they have been frustrated with his play. The more even minded fans however love him.

  25. #43
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Actually a top 5 shooting guard has been on EVERY championship team in the last 10 years. Edit- Except the Pistons.
    That Pistons team is the exception to every NBA rule of success.

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  27. #44
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    If the goal is to trade Paul George, at least wait until he appears untouchable and has high value. He's not there.

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  29. #45
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    A great individual PG is useless, and will be just a waste of money. What you want in a PG is a PG that fits your system and team. They won't be the greatest of PGs, might even suck on other teams, but they will make your team better. This also saves you money to sign better players around them, and have a stronger team.

    With the exception of Jordan there have been two common themes with championship teams:

    1. Strong post play (either a dominate C or PF, or two extremely good players (see post Shaq Lakers))

    2. A good, not great, PG that fit the team, and made the team better.


    Honestly you could argue PGs like Rose, Paul, and Williams are closer to being like Murphy than they to being like Shaq. They put up great stats, but they rarely result in winning. In Murphy's situation it is individual games, in the PGs situation it is championships. Although it works during the regular season there is a fundamental flaw with building the team around a PG that prevents them from winning championships. Just like fast paced, up and down teams win a lot in the regular season, they do not win championships. In both cases it is sexy and flashy, which is why a lot of people (even basketball smart people) fall in love with it, but in both cases there are fundamental flaws.

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  31. #46

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    players should never be untouchable. if it takes george to acquire a gordon, you do it imo. i'm also not sure george can maximize his potential with this organization and around these players. granger seems unwilling to relinquish his role and there's too many players on this team who only care about getting theirs. not much of a system in place at all with the pacers at the moment.

  32. #47
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    A great individual PG is useless, and will be just a waste of money. What you want in a PG is a PG that fits your system and team. They won't be the greatest of PGs, might even suck on other teams, but they will make your team better. This also saves you money to sign better players around them, and have a stronger team.

    With the exception of Jordan there have been two common themes with championship teams:

    1. Strong post play (either a dominate C or PF, or two extremely good players (see post Shaq Lakers))

    2. A good, not great, PG that fit the team, and made the team better.


    Honestly you could argue PGs like Rose, Paul, and Williams are closer to being like Murphy than they to being like Shaq. They put up great stats, but they rarely result in winning. In Murphy's situation it is individual games, in the PGs situation it is championships. Although it works during the regular season there is a fundamental flaw with building the team around a PG that prevents them from winning championships. Just like fast paced, up and down teams win a lot in the regular season, they do not win championships. In both cases it is sexy and flashy, which is why a lot of people (even basketball smart people) fall in love with it, but in both cases there are fundamental flaws.
    With the right fit I think all of those guys could win champions but I think we can agree that is not the best way to build a championship. As history has shown us the last 20 years.

    But it is good to someone realizing this. I hope we can past the point guard obsession. No reason the majority of the board can't realize the folly in that line of thinking.

  33. #48
    Member yoadknux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    He doesn't have high trade value. Our fans value him a lot more than the rest of the league. We'd be very lucky if he gets in the 2nd all rookie team. Let's face it, we all like Paul and his huge potential, but at the moment he's just an average rookie.
    If we can get a good player that can upgrade our game (like Iggy, Smith, whoever comes to your mind) then we should do it, if not just sit and see if he turns into something special

  34. #49

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    With the right fit I think all of those guys could win champions but I think we can agree that is not the best way to build a championship. As history has shown us the last 20 years.

    But it is good to someone realizing this. I hope we can past the point guard obsession. No reason the majority of the board can't realize the folly in that line of thinking.
    Who are we to believe NBA GM's or you? The people who get paid millions of dollars overwhelmingly would take a quality pg over a quality sg. Not even an argument. Since 2000 16 pg's taken in top 5. Only 7 sg's. So this pg obsession is not a fallacy, it is a fact.

  35. #50

    Default Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Who are we to believe NBA GM's or you? The people who get paid millions of dollars overwhelmingly would take a quality pg over a quality sg. Not even an argument. Since 2000 16 pg's taken in top 5. Only 7 sg's. So this pg obsession is not a fallacy, it is a fact.
    what's also a fact is that history tells us pgs do not make or break teams. if you define an elite pg as a player who ranks top 3 at that position, how many elite pgs have won titles? not many...
    Last edited by croz24; 04-06-2011 at 08:43 AM.

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