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Thread: Slow starts need to stop now!

  1. #1
    Gettin paid in the shade HoopMoney's Avatar
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    Default Slow starts need to stop now!

    Pacers slow starts need to stop now!

    When Frank Vogel took over the head coaching position for the Indiana Pacers it gave them a little spark. They won seven out of their first eight games with their only loss coming in Miami. It looked like the trend of slow starts was over by averaging 31.6 points in the first quarter during that span.

    Then the Heat came to Indiana and spanked us and brought us back to reality. We gave up 41 points and were down by 22 after the first quarter. That is when the trend of good starts ended. It took eight games for the new coach spark to ware off.

    As good as the first eight games were under our new coach, the next 13 games was just as bad. We lose 10 of those games and every time were down after the first quarter. The only comeback win being against the lowly Wizards. During that stretch we came close to disaster. We fell out of a playoff birth and our season was looking like a failure.

    Then came the new look Knicks. The only playoff team in more turmoil than us. We played them in New York and here, both times scoring 29 points in the first quarter and winning. Those two games rescued our season.

    We go to Boston and the Celtics have a slow start. They score only 15 points in the first quarter but we don't take advantage and lose by only scoring 20 points in each quarter. It was the only time under our new coach that we didn't win after leading the first quarter.

    The last time we had an inspired first quarter was against the Central Division leading Bulls. We score 31 points in the first quarter and go on to win in overtime. It looks like Chicago is going to be our first round matchup and lets hope that win gives them confidence.

    Fast starts have been the exception not the rule. In the last nine games, we have trailed all of them after the first quarter. Of the first 26 games under our new head coach we got one comeback win. Of the last five wins they have all had to be comebacks. We have averaged 20.7 points in the first quarter during that span. At least we've shown signs of not giving up. I would hope not with the playoffs and the season on the line.

    With the Washington Wizards coming here to the Fieldhouse on Wednesday, lets buck this trend of slow starts and make a hard playoff push. Go Pacers!

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    It's not going to stop with our starting line-up. They are only reasonably talented and have chemistry problems.
    Danger Zone

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    So the team needs to start not stopping, or stop not starting.

    Is it a bad sign that my nose is bleeding now?

  6. #4

    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    It's Frank Vogel's job to fix this problem.

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    Gettin paid in the shade HoopMoney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaHa3000 View Post
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    It's Frank Vogel's job to fix this problem.
    Yes, you are excacly right! It is Frank Vogel's job to get his players engaged and ready to play at the beginning of the game. It is the head coach's responsibilty to script the first dozen or so plays to start the game.

    At the beginning of a game the coach can practice more complex sets to get easier buckets with more movement and passing. Then build on it from game to game.

    At the beginning of the game is where a coach can help the starting lineup be greater than the sum of their parts. And this is an area where we are lacking bigtime.

    The keep it simple philosophy does not apply at the beginning of the game and has hurt this team a lot.

    Lately it's been the bench's job to cut into the lead and the starters job to maintain it. Instead of the starters getting the lead and the bench maintaining it.

    If our interm head coach can't get some better assistants to help him then he has no future here.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    It HAS to happen. Mike and JMac have to come back into the starting line-up if were gonna close out some with some wins. Paul and Tyler are both slumping. Re-unite the goon squad, and good things WILL happen.
    Last edited by Constellations; 04-05-2011 at 12:29 AM.

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  12. #7
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbert55 View Post
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    It HAS to happen. Mike and JMac have to come back into the starting line-up if were gonna close out some with some wins. Paul and Tyler are both slumping. Re-unite the goon squad, and good things WILL happen.
    George is the future at shooting guard and was thrust into the starting lineup prematurely when Mike Dunleavy got hurt. Paul has had his struggles being the fith option on offence. It's been hard on him, trying to be productive while not getting very many touches.

    McRoberts was moved to the bench not because of his productivity but because of Hibbert's lack of efficient low post scoring. So they move Hanbrough with his right handed half-hook to give us some inside presents with the starters. But that leaves the bench with no scoring option inside.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopMoney View Post
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    Yes, you are excacly right! It is Frank Vogel's job to get his players engaged and ready to play at the beginning of the game. It is the head coach's responsibilty to script the first dozen or so plays to start the game.

    At the beginning of a game the coach can practice more complex sets to get easier buckets with more movement and passing. Then build on it from game to game.

    At the beginning of the game is where a coach can help the starting lineup be greater than the sum of their parts. And this is an area where we are lacking bigtime.

    The keep it simple philosophy does not apply at the beginning of the game and has hurt this team a lot.
    I kinda like this idea bro, Vogel calls nice play during timeouts. If we tried some of this 1st quarter it may help... I'm up for anything cause it has become assumed every game. We need to switch up something with the starting lineup if this continues during the end of the season.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Another problem other than the lack of leadership on the floor has been our lack of retention. Our coaching staff can drill fundamentals for days then when the players get a day off, they revert back to the same mistakes.

    Our basketball IQ is relatively low on this young and up & coming team. They are learning but slowly. There is not much time left until the playoffs so we can't really change much.

    If we could make only one little tweek going into the playoffs. It would be starting games with a sense of urgency and a consentration on offensive effenciency.

    Some new sets to open games would help.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopMoney View Post
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    George is the future at shooting guard and was thrust into the starting lineup prematurely when Mike Dunleavy got hurt. Paul has had his struggles being the fith option on offence. It's been hard on him, trying to be productive while not getting very many touches.

    McRoberts was moved to the bench not because of his productivity but because of Hibbert's lack of efficient low post scoring. So they move Hanbrough with his right handed half-hook to give us some inside presents with the starters. But that leaves the bench with no scoring option inside.
    The fact is, Mike is the veteran. He is more productive than George. George is the future SG, I agree completely, but has has to grow coming off the bench. And you know this already, but he was much more productive in the 2nd unit.

    The matter with JMAC coming back is simply because we have 5 games left! We have to disrupt the flow of our slow starts and finish out this season with some W's. We had much more early production with our 1st starting unit. End of story.
    Last edited by Constellations; 04-05-2011 at 02:48 AM.

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  18. #11
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbert55 View Post
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    The fact is, Mike is the veteran. He is more productive than George. George is the future SG, I agree completely, but has has to grow coming off the bench. And you know this already, but he was much more productive in the 2nd unit.

    The matter with JMAC coming back is simply because we have 5 games left! We have to disrupt the flow of our slow starts and finish out this season with some W's. We had much more early production with our 1st starting unit. End of story.
    Dunleavy is the smartest guy on the team with the highest basketball IQ. His biggest contribution to the starting lineup is his movment without the ball. He can find scoring opprotunities without having plays run for him. It's just too bad he plays out of position at shooting guard.

    George is a 20 year old rookie who would be well served if he learned a few things from Mike. Paul has been lost in the starting lineup. With Granger, Collison & Hibbert getting the majority of the shots that leaves him with few opportunities to be productive.

    I have not heard of any impending lineup changes with only 4 games left in the regular season. But I would not be surprised if either DunDun and or JMac became starters again. They are both productive low usage players that fit well being the fourth and fifth option.

    We have to be careful not to disrupt the rotations too much so close to the playoffs. The players need time to adjust.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Honestly, I'd consider moving Collison and Tyler to the second unit and bring Josh and ???? to the starting line up. Problem is I don't think Price could handle it. If Lance was more developed, I'd start him. But then again, there isn't enough time in the season to adjust to it so who know.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Skull View Post
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    Honestly, I'd consider moving Collison and Tyler to the second unit and bring Josh and ???? to the starting line up. Problem is I don't think Price could handle it. If Lance was more developed, I'd start him. But then again, there isn't enough time in the season to adjust to it so who know.
    Let JMAC run the point and have AJ as the SG. LOL. Thats how we will win games right there.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Skull View Post
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    Honestly, I'd consider moving Collison and Tyler to the second unit and bring Josh and ???? to the starting line up. Problem is I don't think Price could handle it. If Lance was more developed, I'd start him. But then again, there isn't enough time in the season to adjust to it so who know.
    Moving Hansbrough back to second unit would probably be seen as a regression to his growth as a player. Even though it would give a better balance to our bench. The need for Tyler to start has become evident because big Roy has not lived up to being the low post presence that we need with the starters.

    Price had a good off season of rehab. He started the season good but then didn't get to play. Now that he's getting playing time, he's struggling with his shot.

    We are stuck with the young Collison as the starting point guard. If we pulled him from the starters it would crush his confidence.

    Lance is no where near being ready to play significant minutes. Still I'd like to see him in more garbage time.

  24. #15
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Thanks for changing that trend of slow starts. Keep up the good work Pacers.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by HoopMoney View Post
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    Thanks for changing that trend of slow starts. Keep up the good work Pacers.
    It was one game against an entirely apathetic opponent. I wouldn't consider the trend changed.

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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    If we want to win tonight, which I hope we do then we can't let the Hawks get out in front of us early like they always do.

    This is the one game last game of the season I'd really like to see us win. The Hawks have owned us in pretty much every meeting since last year.

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  28. #18
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    If we want to win tonight, which I hope we do then we can't let the Hawks get out in front of us early like they always do.

    This is the one game last game of the season I'd really like to see us win. The Hawks have owned us in pretty much every meeting since last year.
    The Hawks have won the last 9 matchups. In the last two seasons they have beat us by 10 points or more every time.

  29. #19
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    Default Re: Slow starts need to stop now!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    It was one game against an entirely apathetic opponent. I wouldn't consider the trend changed.
    A better way of putting it would have been snapping the 9 consecutive game streak of being down after the first quarter.

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