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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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'11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

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  • #31
    Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

    Originally posted by docpaul View Post
    I'd interview everyone and their uncle, and then pick the best.
    Ah, yes, but do you really trust Larry making that decision?

    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    • #32
      Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

      Originally posted by BillS View Post
      Why are we using "record since before the all-star break" to equal "late-season surge"? The records being used don't match the intent of the thread.
      It matches the title of the thread. It also gives us the largest sample, comparing Vogel's entire tenure to the corresponding dates for Jimmy. Would you rather we compared their overall win percentages, instead?
      Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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      • #33
        Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

        Didn't I read somewhere that Frank consults Larry quite a bit about coaching the team. I think it's great he utilizes a mentor, but it leads to the question of how many of the decisions are his alone. I really like what Frank has done, but I'd feel better about him if I knew for sure he was the one with the original ideas for the changes that have been made.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

          Originally posted by Pacemaker View Post
          Wouldn't it be hilarious that Frank could hire Jim as an assistant and mentor him just a little bit !!! NOT !!
          "Now see Jimmy, you can play youth and be successful. Oh, and James Posey is not a "Stretch 4. That's just a terrible idea. And attacking the paint is NOT worth just one point".......
          Originally posted by Justin Tyme
          Not to mention the next coach might not play the young'ns like Vogel has. I like how many players he uses instead of an 7-8 player rotation of many coaches.
          DC in particular not having a new coach for once in his career would benefit HUGELY from Vogel being retained.
          "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

          "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

            Besides bashing Jim, I think we can ask.. has Frank done a good enough job to warrant bringing him back? I think the playoffs and how we perform will be a key factor in that decision.

            The playoffs require a coach to not only be prepared with scouting, but to be able to adjust game to game against the same opponent. Coaching becomes much more important in a series like that.

            Right now, I'd like to bring Frank back for one season. He became the captain of a sinking ship. You gotta give him credit for righting it.

            Let's give him a whole summer to prepare and work with the guys and see how he does. We can always get a big name coach the year after if it doesn't work out.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

              Originally posted by Kegboy View Post
              It matches the title of the thread. It also gives us the largest sample, comparing Vogel's entire tenure to the corresponding dates for Jimmy. Would you rather we compared their overall win percentages, instead?
              I thought the intent, from the first post, was to say this wasn't the same as the late season surges under JOB. If that is the comparison, we need to compare the "late season" numbers, not the entire numbers.
              BillS

              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                Here's something to throw out there: number of home vs. away games in each of these seasons. This was done rather quickly, so it may be slightly off.

                '07-'08: 21 home, 15 away
                '08-'09: 18 home, 16 away
                '09-'10: 18 home, 16 away
                '10-'11: 15 home, 17 away

                I wish I had time to do strength of schedule.

                *edit*-now realizing I went ahead and finished out the schedule for the previous three seasons, as opposed to stopping in April.

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                • #38
                  Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                  I thoroughly believe that both Vogel and JOB want(ed) to win. The difference is that Vogel is willing to use any resources available to do that, and notice and comment when that change did not work.

                  As connected fans we want to know what is going on. Do we have the right to know everything...NO. I don't want to know about Lance's late night reardezvous. But if it is conduct to the vitality of the team I want to know what is going on.

                  I wish we could be around the team as much as the staff. I think then we would realize how hard it is to win in the league. When we make the playoffs, enjoy it. Cause we might not get back for a long time. It is not a given that we will be contenders soon.

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                  • #39
                    Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                    Another thing that is fair to take into account is that Jim would collect a lot of wins at the end of the year by beating teams that were in "tanking mode", this year because of the lockout and the weak draft teams are not tanking making it harder for the Pacers to win.
                    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                      After long consideration about this which included both prayer and meditation as well as seeking out statistical experts from M.I.T. (for those who can not live without some form of statistic being studied) I have come to one conclusion.

                      Jim O'Brien is the devil.

                      Derrick McKey can finally feel sanctified.


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                      • #41
                        Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                        Another thing that is fair to take into account is that Jim would collect a lot of wins at the end of the year by beating teams that were in "tanking mode", this year because of the lockout and the weak draft teams are not tanking making it harder for the Pacers to win.

                        So wait, this year is the only year that teams aren't tanking? Wow that is conveniant. I think that is imposible to prove and document. I much better argument in Frank's favor is simply to say these wins are leading to the playoffs where as last years 10-4 were after the pacers were eliminated.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                          So wait, this year is the only year that teams aren't tanking? Wow that is conveniant. I think that is imposible to prove and document. I much better argument in Frank's favor is simply to say these wins are leading to the playoffs where as last years 10-4 were after the pacers were eliminated.
                          Yeah, it actually is convenient. This is not a tank-worthy draft, so teams aren't doing it as much. There is not prize to tank for this season. It might be impossible to prove in a court of law, but I think most people would agree that there is very little tanking going on this year, if any.

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                          • #43
                            Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                            I consider myself rational and while I won't say that O'Brien is better than Vogel, I certainly won't say that Vogel is better than O'Brien. Way, way way too soon to draw any hard conclusions on Vogel. I'll say he's done a nice job through 33 games. He's hasn't coached through a training camp, through preseason games, through the process when the players begin to get sick of hearing you.

                            Jim O'Brien has coached about 7 NBA seasons, has goten his team to game 6 of the ECF.

                            I think for anyone to conclude that Vogel is a better coach than O'Brien is irrational. Is Vogel a better coach for this Pacers team right now? Of course, but a better coach overall - get back with me after Vogel has coached two or three full seasons.


                            Edit: I'm not sure it is entirely fair to include the honeymoon period - the first 8-10 games Vogel coached this team. Any coach would have had a honeymoon period taking over for JOB.

                            Pacers did end the season last year 10-4, actually they were 10-2 until the lost their last two games. The schdule to end the year last year was easy, but Vogel's first 10 games schedule was easy. I suppose my point is, I'm not convinced that Vogel is the answer and that is the only question we need to be concerned about. O'Brien is gone, not coming back, so he's not the issue anymore.
                            Okay, okay, allow me to qualify my previous statement. No rational person can argue that at this time, for this team, that Vogel is not a better option as head coach than Jim O'Brien.

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                            • #44
                              Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                              Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                              So wait, this year is the only year that teams aren't tanking? Wow that is conveniant. I think that is imposible to prove and document. I much better argument in Frank's favor is simply to say these wins are leading to the playoffs where as last years 10-4 were after the pacers were eliminated.
                              I know that there is no way to prove it, but like I said before the NBA lockout and this years draft been one of the worse in the last 10 years is a reason why teams are not tanking, I don't know if you pay attention to the mock drafts or anything like that, but it looks like the number one pick is going to be anybody's guess.

                              Last year teams were tanking for Wall, the year before Blake and the year before that one Rose, in this years draft everybody in the top ten is pretty much equal.
                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: '11 Frank versus '10, '09, and '08 Jim: Last game of Jan through First game of April

                                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                                Not true.

                                It's been clear to me that you had the ring picked out and were all set to propose to Jim when the time was right for years now.





                                BTW, along these lines I do think we are seeing the old Buck returning slowly as the JOB battles start to slip away. I think fighting those battles started to affect you.

                                I guess that's true for me to if you bring up Josh, Rush or Price to be fair.


                                But you still hung onto some pretty extreme defenses of JOB no matter what the reason.
                                A lot of people stick their heels in the ground for players/coaches. You do it with Josh, I do it with AJ and to a lesser extent DC (irony right there), and Buck...for whatever strange reason, did it for JOB.

                                As for Frank, I like Frank a lot. I like that he utilizes every resource he has. I like that he does an excellent job of picking up good ideas from other coaches. He has, imo, a lot of potential as a coach.

                                And I like him for this team. However, I agree that the Pacers should interview everyone, talk to the players that are coming back to see what they want. And decide. But I'd give Frank the first interview.
                                Last edited by Sookie; 04-02-2011, 02:28 PM.

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