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Thread: Josh Smith Availability

  1. #126
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    The next 3 years DG is getting paid = $12mill, $13mill, and $14mill.

    I know it is not a max contract, but it is close enough with the current CBA. I am not sure what Danny could have maxed out at anyway. That's still a ton of money and cap space for a guy who doesnt lead! I bet we can all list about 10 players making significantly less who we would trade him for in a heartbeat (excluding rookie contracts would be a little more difficult but possible)
    I just tried..

    Rajon Rondo
    Manu Ginobli (But he took a pay cut because of loyalty, age, and injury concerns. He could have gotten a HUGE contract with another team if he wanted to)
    Monta Ellis

    Heck I can't even think of 5. Maybe throw in Paul Milsap.

  2. #127
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    What would Josh Smith's salary do to our resigning/extension of our youth?

  3. #128
    Member Jrod Jones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Troy, the things you are saying are really starting to irritate me.

    - Granger's contract is very fair (if not excellent) value.
    - Granger might be forced into the "Batman" role (your use of this metaphor is awful) but his contract is that of a 3rd or 2nd option
    - Josh Smith is an elite PF
    - Smith is leaps and bounds (literally and figuratively) ahead of Tyler
    - PF is NOT our strongest position
    - Not playing in an allstar game does not put you on the same level as others who have not played in all star games
    - You see no fight in George? I don't even know what to say to you

    And those are the more "legitimate" things you have said. I am not going to even comment on things you have said like preferring Hinrich for our team then Smith. Actually, I just typed that and got upset.

    Kirk Hinrich the past 3 years
    2009 10/4/3 1stl 43%/79% 30min
    2010 11/5/3 1stl 41%/75% 33min
    2011 10/4/3 1stl 44%/75% 30min

    Darren Collison the past 2 years
    2010 13/6/3 1stl 48%/85% 27min
    2011 13/5/3 1stl 45%/87% 30min

    Also, HINRICH IS GETTING PAID 9mill THIS YEAR, plus the 6 year age difference DC is in a different league than Hinrich. Hinrich is an awful fit for our team! With DC, Price and then trying to squeeze some occasional minutes to Lance there really is no room for another backup point guard (yes, Hinrich would be our backup)

    Now look, I am not saying that Tyler is not great. I love his hustle and what he brings to this team. I also think that his ceiling is a lot higher then most people. BUT you cannot disregard the possibility of adding an explosive Offensive and Defensive who is not getting paid unreasonably.

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  5. #129

    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by MyFavMartin View Post
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    What would Josh Smith's salary do to our resigning/extension of our youth?
    Depends on the new CBA. As it is currently it shouldn't hinder us from resigning Collison and Hibbert to decent contracts. The thing to keep in mind is that Josh Smith is signed for 2 more years after this season. If we keep Poseys contract and let it expire then we should have no problem signing Hibbert to an extension.

  6. #130
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Depends on the new CBA. As it is currently it shouldn't hinder us from resigning Collison and Hibbert to decent contracts. The thing to keep in mind is that Josh Smith is signed for 2 more years after this season. If we keep Poseys contract and let it expire then we should have no problem signing Hibbert to an extension.
    Under the current CBA we would technically be able to re-sign everyone. Depending on how far over the luxury tax Simon is willing to go is what really decides, and we don't know how much he would be willing to spend.

    I doubt we would be able to re-sign them all under a new CBA. I don't know if there will be a hard cap, but I am certain it won't be as easy to re-sign every player.

  7. #131
    Twitter @M_Murph11 PacerPride33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Would love to get Josh Smith if we didn't have to give up main core. I do think we have a better chance at landing Jefferson though
    Murph

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    If Atlanta does consider moving Josh Smith, and wants to lower their payroll in the process, I'd happily give them Paul George and our 1st round pick. That's a great young prospect, a mid-round 1st and they'd shed $8.5M.

  9. #133

    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Under the current CBA we would technically be able to re-sign everyone. Depending on how far over the luxury tax Simon is willing to go is what really decides, and we don't know how much he would be willing to spend.

    I doubt we would be able to re-sign them all under a new CBA. I don't know if there will be a hard cap, but I am certain it won't be as easy to re-sign every player.
    IF you are talking core guys then we should be able to sign Collison, Hibbert back with a question mark for Hans.

    I always go back to how the how much the current league payroll is. IMO if half the league is operating at around 60-70 mill you not going to see a HUGE shift in cap space. Most of the teams with power ie big markets aren't going to let the small market dictate how the operate. Do I know for sure? NO but all the gloom and dome is salesmanship IMO and I am not buying it.

  10. #134
    Member pacergod2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    cdash, I didn't want to thank every single post of yours, so I am just writing a new post on this. You are absolutely correct in your assessment of JSmoove.

    - Smith's athelticism around the rim is ridiculous. Our offensive rebounding would improve dramatically. His slashing ability paired with Hibbert's passing (and hopefully McRoberts's as well) would be awesome. The weakside capability/effectiveness of Smith is as good as any other player in the league.

    - Smith is an active rebounder, which is exactly what we need around the slow footed Hibbert. Hibbert will rebound the ball high off the rim moreso, than travel ten feet to get a board. Smith would be able to make the rebounding reads and basically rebound whatever Hibbert can't get to.

    - We would have two top five shot blockers in the front court, with plus shot blockers at SF (Granger) and SG (Rush and hopefully George). The length and athelticism he gives us on the defensive side of the ball would be such a marked improvement that he would be well worth his contract to us on just the defensive end of the ball.

    - He has a versatile offensive game, as long as he stays within about 15-18 feet of the basket. He becomes much less effective the further he gets from the rim. I love how he can take just about any PF off the dribble. He is a coach's dream in the pick and roll, IMO.

    - He is absolutely better than Tyler. I would make Tyler the centerpiece around trading for Smith. Tyler and our 2011 First would give them about $8-10M in savings, depending on what they do with the pick. Atlanta needs to get Horford some help at center, which could be a foundation for making a deal. Tyson Chandler, Kwame Brown, Sam Dalembert, Greg Oden, Yao Ming. There are going to be a lot of centers available this off-season. The Hawks need to move Horford to PF, sign a better center, and bring Hans off the bench. That would keep Williams at SF, who is an excellent defender. Atlanta doesn't get killed defensively if they move Smith because they have plus defenders at 2-4, plus whichever center they would bring in would give them a plus defender at the five as well. They can afford to move Smith, because he would return the most in a trade and they won't trade Horford. Williams doesn't have a ton of value now that he is getting paid around $7M per.

    - As for contracts, you have to pay the better players accordingly. Josh Smith is such a game changing player, because of the things he is "elite" at. His athleticism is as good as any PF in the league. He is an elite shot blocker. His athleticism and ability to read player movements, allow him to get as many steals and weakside blocks as he gets. I have said for as long as I have been on this board that Smith would be a great compliment to Hibbert.

    - I think that we can make some serious noise with a player like Smith. He puts an athletic force between Granger and Hibbert. I think Smith compliments Granger just as much as he compliments Hibbert. Granger's perimeter scoring and outside shooting helps take the scoring burden off Smith and he will get easy looks off of the attention Granger gets. Granger isn't the quickest player, but wouldn't look nearly as bad when he gets blown by with two shot blockers like that behind him. Granger would also get a lot more weakside blocks with players being so concerned about where Hibbert and Smith are.

    - Smith would also let Collison off the hook a little more defensively. Again for the same rim protection he would give everyone. This would allow Collison to play the lanes more for steals, which kills a team defensively if they don't have the protection behind them. That is why Allen Iverson had three and a half plus-defenders on the floor with him at all times. It afforded him the luxury of playing passing lanes instead of manning up the other PG.

    Sorry so long, but there are so many reasons why we should look at Josh Smith, that it is incredulous so many would not want him here. We would get more out of Josh Smith than the Hawks get from him, just based on the rotation make-up for both teams. I would not want to give up Granger or Hibbert for him though. He compliments both players so well that it is the reason behind wanting him so much. Hansborough, Rush, George, and Collison are all very likeable, good players. I would give any of them up for Smith, because you can't bring in better players without giving something of value up. If we could send Hans to ATL for Smith, and George to PHI for Iggy, I think you have to consider making those deals work. I think Rush probably has the least value to other teams, but he also would be much easier to sign cheaply going forward of our young guys. It makes sense to keep him around on the second unit. Same with McRoberts. I think Hans and George will command more money in the future and have the value to get a solid return.

    Sorry so long.

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  12. #135
    Member Professor S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    - He is absolutely better than Tyler. I would make Tyler the centerpiece around trading for Smith. Tyler and our 2011 First would give them about $8-10M in savings, depending on what they do with the pick. Atlanta needs to get Horford some help at center, which could be a foundation for making a deal. Tyson Chandler, Kwame Brown, Sam Dalembert, Greg Oden, Yao Ming. There are going to be a lot of centers available this off-season. The Hawks need to move Horford to PF, sign a better center, and bring Hans off the bench. That would keep Williams at SF, who is an excellent defender. Atlanta doesn't get killed defensively if they move Smith because they have plus defenders at 2-4, plus whichever center they would bring in would give them a plus defender at the five as well. They can afford to move Smith, because he would return the most in a trade and they won't trade Horford. Williams doesn't have a ton of value now that he is getting paid around $7M per.
    While I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Smith, and would love to bring him in, there is no way they will accept Hansbrough (who would be their backup PF behind an All-Star caliber Horford) and a mid-first round pick in a mediocre draft. I am sure they could find a better offer elsewhere.

  13. #136
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor S View Post
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    While I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Smith, and would love to bring him in, there is no way they will accept Hansbrough (who would be their backup PF behind an All-Star caliber Horford) and a mid-first round pick in a mediocre draft. I am sure they could find a better offer elsewhere.
    True. I was just throwing an idea out there that they may consider as the basis of a bigger, better deal. Maybe something with a third team that brings them a center.

  14. #137
    Member Professor S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    True. I was just throwing an idea out there that they may consider as the basis of a bigger, better deal. Maybe something with a third team that brings them a center.
    Fair enough. I would LOVE to get Smith and would give up Hans without blinking to do it but I can't imagine us swinging that without parting with Roy or getting a third team involved.

  15. #138
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    cdash, I didn't want to thank every single post of yours, so I am just writing a new post on this. You are absolutely correct in your assessment of JSmoove.

    - Smith's athelticism around the rim is ridiculous. Our offensive rebounding would improve dramatically. His slashing ability paired with Hibbert's passing (and hopefully McRoberts's as well) would be awesome. The weakside capability/effectiveness of Smith is as good as any other player in the league....
    Didn't want to quote the whole post, but you summed up what I have been saying in about 15 different posts in one fell swoop.

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  17. #139
    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor S View Post
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    While I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Smith, and would love to bring him in, there is no way they will accept Hansbrough (who would be their backup PF behind an All-Star caliber Horford) and a mid-first round pick in a mediocre draft. I am sure they could find a better offer elsewhere.
    Talent wise I agree they could get better offers. But their need is slashing salary. 70 million in 7 players for next year. They're near luxury tax area and they need 8 more players. If they're truly trying so save cash they wont have many options.

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    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Talent wise I agree they could get better offers. But their need is slashing salary. 70 million in 7 players for next year. They're near luxury tax area and they need 8 more players. If they're truly trying so save cash they wont have many options.
    Just to add to this, while Horford's ideal position is probably power forward, he plays the bulk of his minutes at center for the Hawks.

  19. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Talent wise I agree they could get better offers. But their need is slashing salary. 70 million in 7 players for next year. They're near luxury tax area and they need 8 more players. If they're truly trying so save cash they wont have many options.
    I'm no capologist so I wasn't aware of the Hawks issues in that regard. Perhaps the deal isn't as much of a pipe dream if they truly need to shed salary that badly. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

  20. #142
    Twitter @M_Murph11 PacerPride33's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Would they look at McBob at Center? If so a S&T could be worked out. Add Rush who would have a great shot at starting at small forward for them. Add in 2011 first and I'd even consider a protected 2012 first
    Murph

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Look we are going to have to give quality to get quality, that's all there is to it. We aren't going to get Smith or anyone else with any real value for our leftovers. The guess here is that Atlanta would ask for Hibbert/1st initially, at least.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    If the Hawks would want Roy rather than Danny, I'd do it still, but then I'd want us to go out and get Al Jefferson to play next to Josh Smith.

    Jefferson and Horford are pretty similar players so our front court would be pretty similar to what the Hawks have now.

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  24. #145
    Member Isaac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    If the Hawks would want Roy rather than Danny, I'd do it still, but then I'd want us to go out and get Al Jefferson to play next to Josh Smith.

    Jefferson and Horford are pretty similar players so our front court would be pretty similar to what the Hawks have now.
    If we could get a front court with Al and Josh without giving up Danny we would compete for a top 4 spot in the east. Find a way to add Mayo as well... that'd be exciting

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  26. #146

    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    If we could get a front court with Al and Josh without giving up Danny we would compete for a top 4 spot in the east. Find a way to add Mayo as well... that'd be exciting
    Would people rather have Iguodala or Al Jefferson. IF we got Iggy then maybe sign a defensive center like Dalembert to a 6 million dollar contract. Our defense would be really good if we made those two moves.

  27. #147

    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac View Post
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    If we could get a front court with Al and Josh without giving up Danny we would compete for a top 4 spot in the east. Find a way to add Mayo as well... that'd be exciting
    I'm not trying to be negative but I am wondering why a frontcourt of Al, Josh and Danny would excite you when Atlanta has not won anything with Horford, Josh, and Joe Johnson (who is better than Danny)?
    Is it because of Mayo that you would be excited? Or is it the frontcourt? I am not arguing, just asking.

  28. #148

    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Would people rather have Iguodala or Al Jefferson. IF we got Iggy then maybe sign a defensive center like Dalembert to a 6 million dollar contract. Our defense would be really good if we made those two moves.
    I would definitely rather have Iggy and a Defensive center. That would give us 2 defensive stoppers. I like Al but he is all offense and his weight problems scare me.

    Honestly, I would be thrilled with a defensive 7'0 center alone and maybe a pg with strong defensive skills. Don't know who is available there though.

  29. #149
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Would people rather have Iguodala or Al Jefferson. IF we got Iggy then maybe sign a defensive center like Dalembert to a 6 million dollar contract. Our defense would be really good if we made those two moves.
    Iguodala 100 times out of 100. Doubt Philly trades him though, besides the Evan Turner factor they have no reason to do so.

  30. #150
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    I'm not trying to be negative but I am wondering why a frontcourt of Al, Josh and Danny would excite you when Atlanta has not won anything with Horford, Josh, and Joe Johnson (who is better than Danny)?
    Is it because of Mayo that you would be excited? Or is it the frontcourt? I am not arguing, just asking.
    Well adding Al, Josh, and OJ being a playoff contender would sure as hell be better than being an 8th seed by default below .500.

    Collison/Mayo/George/Smith/Jefferson is the lineup I'd be happy with.

    It would be something we can build from.

    We have to be a solid playoff team before we get ahead of ourselves.

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