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Thread: Josh Smith Availability

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    I'd gladly go out and get both Mayo and Smith.

    Mayo needs to go to a new team and get a role. He's just not fitting in with Memphis. Give them Josh (S&T), Brandon, and 2011 First.

    Getting Smith is a pipe dream. Give them 2 Firsts past in 2012 and 2013 and Danny.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Yeah I'm still not sure why so many people have their hearts set on OJ Mayo. Maybe it's because they know he is available for cheap?
    me neither?? wouldn't mind having him as a third wing, but not to play in front of danny or paul.

    my theory is people like mayo because he was a high draft pick. or someone they thought was going to be a good player when he was drafted. he just hasn't been in the league long enough or played for a team they watch enough for that to wear off.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    me neither?? wouldn't mind having him as a third wing, but not to play in front of danny or paul.

    my theory is people like mayo because he was a high draft pick. or someone they thought was going to be a good player when he was drafted. he just hasn't been in the league long enough or played for a team they watch enough for that to wear off.
    I watch the Grizzlies pretty often not just for Mayo, but when he does come on the floor, he brings solid scoring and he's pretty talented. He has signs of potential and would probably be a big time scorer with a different team.

    He has good ballhandling and is crafty.

    So that's my opinion on him. He's talented and that's something we lack. Not because he's a top pick.

    I still have a feeling Bird will get him. I mean I wouldn't think he'd be that interested in a deal and it doesn't get done because there's no time and he'll walk away from it completely.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Personally I like Mayo, because he's better than the no.15 pick in this draft. Also, he's an upgrade over any guard on the roster, and he's still on rookie scale for one more year. I'm more surprised when people want to start Paul, who clearly is not ready for a starting role yet. Or when people start to consider Rush or Dahntay good starters after a couple good games or even a couple decent defensive possessions.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    I'm not wild about a Mayo/Collison backcourt (and unlike many, I'm not ready to give up on DC yet). It isn't a great pairing and we would have any extremely small, defensively weak backcourt.

  8. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm not wild about a Mayo/Collison backcourt (and unlike many, I'm not ready to give up on DC yet). It isn't a great pairing and we would have any extremely small, defensively weak backcourt.


    draft express has mayo listed at 6-3.25. that is pretty short for a SG. especially one without much interest in the defensive end.

    pacers are trying to be a smashmouth strong physical team. i just don't see mayo being that kind of guy. now maybe if i watched more MEM games, he would have virtues that i missed, but the ones i do watch he seems to be a chucker. and not much of a defender.

  9. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I watch the Grizzlies pretty often not just for Mayo, but when he does come on the floor, he brings solid scoring and he's pretty talented. He has signs of potential and would probably be a big time scorer with a different team.

    He has good ballhandling and is crafty.

    So that's my opinion on him. He's talented and that's something we lack. Not because he's a top pick.

    I still have a feeling Bird will get him. I mean I wouldn't think he'd be that interested in a deal and it doesn't get done because there's no time and he'll walk away from it completely.
    i have no way of knowing, but my impression was the mayo deal was more of a chance to get rid of a couple of guys and take a flyer on mayo rather than a guy bird really wanted.

  10. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Oh for crying out loud. Are you a Tyler/UNC fan or are you a Pacers fan? If it's the former I'll stop wasting my time arguing with you.
    I hate NC. I am a Pacer fan who wants to see the team get better. We would not be much better with Smith than we will be with Tyler. Drop $10mill on a player who players our deepest and best position while leaving the other 4 alone will leave us with about 38-40 wins next year. Outside of Tyler and Danny, we have the worst starting "other 3" in basketball. If we get Smith we are stuck with Collison, George, and Hibbert. This means we will suck again next year because we still only have 2 decent starters. Improve the PG or SG position and this team is above .500 next year.
    There will not be enough cap room to get Smith and improve the team as well. We still have to keep the bench together which means resigning Dunleavy and JMac. Want the team battle for the 8th seed again = get Smith.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm not wild about a Mayo/Collison backcourt (and unlike many, I'm not ready to give up on DC yet). It isn't a great pairing and we would have any extremely small, defensively weak backcourt.
    Indeed, it's not perfect. Although lets be fair, Mayo is not a Kyle Korver - he's active on defense and above average, just doesn't have the wingspan to be great. DC would be the far weaker link in that chain.
    I'm all for a better backcourt, if there are any better options in terms of price, talent, age, production and defense.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    i have no way of knowing, but my impression was the mayo deal was more of a chance to get rid of a couple of guys and take a flyer on mayo rather than a guy bird really wanted.
    You don't get rid of expiring (McBob) and decent rookie contract (Rush) and give away a mid round pick, unless you like what you get back.
    I have no way of knowing either, just would seem insane to me if that happened.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    So that's my opinion on him. He's talented and that's something we lack. Not because he's a top pick.
    When will people realize that we in fact do have a lot of young talent. We don't have a winning record under Vogel because we have veteran savvy. No it is because we have a bunch of talent.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    I'd rather have Tyler starting at PF than Josh Smith.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Such a beast that he doesn't even start over Tony Allen (who I really, really like actually).
    actually, in the beginning of the season, they wanted to bring him off the bench for more scoring or instant offense, but he never adapted to it, and then he got the 10 game suspension, and a fight on the team plane, so it just has been a bad season for him overall

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Maybe I'm missing something here...
    J-Smoove is one of the best defensive forwards in the league, gets tons of steals and blocks, can score the ball well.
    Tyler is a nice offensive player, not a great defender, and in his best month of the year had about the same offensive production as Josh.

    I don't know what's going to happen in a few years, but right now, I don't see anything Tyler does better than Josh.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    I hate NC. I am a Pacer fan who wants to see the team get better. We would not be much better with Smith than we will be with Tyler. Drop $10mill on a player who players our deepest and best position while leaving the other 4 alone will leave us with about 38-40 wins next year. Outside of Tyler and Danny, we have the worst starting "other 3" in basketball. If we get Smith we are stuck with Collison, George, and Hibbert. This means we will suck again next year because we still only have 2 decent starters. Improve the PG or SG position and this team is above .500 next year.
    There will not be enough cap room to get Smith and improve the team as well. We still have to keep the bench together which means resigning Dunleavy and JMac. Want the team battle for the 8th seed again = get Smith.
    I actually "get" some of what you are saying. You are probably saying that PF is the deepest position on the team because we have two players that are capable of playing the position with the level not signicantly dropping off no matter which player is on the floor. Unfortunately, I think what you are overlooking is that neither player in conjunction with Hibbert is capable of providing good/adequate frontcourt defense.

    You seem to think that adding Smith would be the only move the Pacers intended to make. Either that or you believe that after adding Smith, the Pacers would not have enough cap space left over to add other quality players to the roster. Both assumptions would be wrong.

    As an example, if we were to remove the salary of all expiring contracts from the roster, then re-sign McRoberts for 3.5M, sign a first-round draft choice for 1.5M, then add Smith's and Igoudala's salaries to the roster, the total salary expenditure would be 66.4M. And, that does not account for the total salary being reduced by the salaries of the players that would have to be traded to acquire the two players.

    What I'm saying is that it is possible to significantly improve the roster by adding as many as two quality players with higher salaries without breaking the bank. Any assumptions otherwise are just wrong.

  19. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I actually "get" some of what you are saying. You are probably saying that PF is the deepest position on the team because we have two players that are capable of playing the position with the level not signicantly dropping off no matter which player is on the floor. Unfortunately, I think what you are overlooking is that neither player in conjunction with Hibbert is capable of providing good/adequate frontcourt defense.

    You seem to think that adding Smith would be the only move the Pacers intended to make. Either that or you believe that after adding Smith, the Pacers would not have enough cap space left over to add other quality players to the roster. Both assumptions would be wrong.

    As an example, if we were to remove the salary of all expiring contracts from the roster, then re-sign McRoberts for 3.5M, sign a first-round draft choice for 1.5M, then add Smith's and Igoudala's salaries to the roster, the total salary expenditure would be 66.4M. And, that does not account for the total salary being reduced by the salaries of the players that would have to be traded to acquire the two players.

    What I'm saying is that it is possible to significantly improve the roster by adding as many as two quality players with higher salaries without breaking the bank. Any assumptions otherwise are just wrong.
    I don't see what you see because there will be too many players coming up for their second contracts in a few short years and there will be no money to sign all of them. This team needs to avoid the situation where Donnie had to let Brad Miller go because he had to resign Bender, Foster, and Reggie. So Smith, Igoudala, Granger will just break the bank.
    Last edited by speakout4; 04-02-2011 at 09:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    I don't see what you see because there will be too many players coming up for their second contracts in a few short years and there will be no money to sign all of them. This team needs to avoid the situation where Donnie had to let Brad Miller go because he had to resign Bender, Foster, and Reggie. So Smith, Igoudala, Granger will just break the bank.
    Two years out, you are correct. After next season, Posey's contract is gone, but the total team salary is still high. My point was to show that getting two quality players was possible.

    As the end of next season approaches, I think the Pacers will have some difficult choices to make, regardless of what the total salary is and how many players we might bring in this summer. But, I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing... it will be time to either fish or cut bait with several of our players. Price, Collison, Hibbert, Hansbrough, George, Rush and possibly a re-signed McRoberts. Some of these players would be traded to bring in better players this summer. And others might be traded in the summer of 2012. Or possibly one of these players improves so much that the players we acquire this summer will be traded at the trade deadline next year or in the summer of 2012.

    Look, it is totally possible to not sign anyone this summer and merely let the cap space be eaten up by increasing salaries and the cost of re-signing players in the summer of 2012. If it is only salary that we are concerned with, then signing maybe one player this summer and then taking the conservative approach of not doing anything else is the safe way to go. But this tact falls significantly short in doing much to improve the team's success in the W-L column.

    The point is, add to the talent this summer and do NOT wait/hope that the present youngsters will all achieve their perceived upside. Use most of the cap space this summer to acquire top notch talent and then be prepared to make the trades that are necessary to maintain a decent salary level the following summer (2012). We will still have desirable assets at that time... for example Smith would be on the last year of his contract and at least some of the remaining youngsters will be coveted players.

    I feel confident that the Pacers will acquire at least one decent talent this summer. An important point is to surround that player with as much talent as possible in hopes that the player will want to stay in Indianapolis.

  22. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I actually "get" some of what you are saying. You are probably saying that PF is the deepest position on the team because we have two players that are capable of playing the position with the level not signicantly dropping off no matter which player is on the floor. Unfortunately, I think what you are overlooking is that neither player in conjunction with Hibbert is capable of providing good/adequate frontcourt defense.

    You seem to think that adding Smith would be the only move the Pacers intended to make. Either that or you believe that after adding Smith, the Pacers would not have enough cap space left over to add other quality players to the roster. Both assumptions would be wrong.

    As an example, if we were to remove the salary of all expiring contracts from the roster, then re-sign McRoberts for 3.5M, sign a first-round draft choice for 1.5M, then add Smith's and Igoudala's salaries to the roster, the total salary expenditure would be 66.4M. And, that does not account for the total salary being reduced by the salaries of the players that would have to be traded to acquire the two players.

    What I'm saying is that it is possible to significantly improve the roster by adding as many as two quality players with higher salaries without breaking the bank. Any assumptions otherwise are just wrong.
    Wait just a minute! You are assuming the CBA will not change. In all likely hood the salary cap will drop significantly. If it does not - then there can be an honest debate. But adding Smith would put a lot of money into the 4 and I just think that is fundamentally wrong. The 4 spot should not be taking up a huge chunk of the cap on a winning team unless it is an elite player. Smith is a decent player but nowhere near elite. A winning team always has a good pg (unless they have superstars like Jordan, Pippen or Kobe, Gasol). I am not convinced Hibbert will ever be a quality defensive Center. Smith looks good on defense now because Horford can cover some of his mistakes - Hibbert cannot. And would probably make him look worse than he is (like he does our PF's now).
    Again, I am not against upgrading any position. I would start with the more significant ones first instead of sinking a ton of money into a postion that is really decent and could be a lot better next year.

    Add Iggy and a quality pg and this team would be primed for a long run!
    Last edited by troyc11a; 04-02-2011 at 10:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Add Iggy and a quality pg and this team would be primed for a long run!
    You add Iggy and a quality PG then this team will have a very strong resemblance to a donut... very tasty on the outside with a large hole in the center. And that's because you have done nothing, absolutely nothing, to improve the post defense.

    I'm not going to argue whether or not Smith is an elite player... I hate the use of the word elite because it is so ambiguous.

    How I will respond is simply by this. I don't think you have an appreciation at all that the game of basketball is played on two ends of the floor. At any rate, ignoring Smith's talents on the defensive end of the court seems to support my view.

    If you do have an appreciation of the defensive aspects of the game, then you would certainly be forced to admit that the Pacers defense in and around the post is at best "lacking". And if you have that appreciation, can you name me more than 2-3 PFs that play better all-around defense, either in the post or even away from the basket, than Josh Smith? Of course, if you don't have that appreciation, then our discussion is moot.

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  25. #95

    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    You add Iggy and a quality PG then this team will have a very strong resemblance to a donut... very tasty on the outside with a large hole in the center. And that's because you have done nothing, absolutely nothing, to improve the post defense.

    I'm not going to argue whether or not Smith is an elite player... I hate the use of the word elite because it is so ambiguous.

    How I will respond is simply by this. I don't think you have an appreciation at all that the game of basketball is played on two ends of the floor. At any rate, ignoring Smith's talents on the defensive end of the court seems to support my view.

    If you do have an appreciation of the defensive aspects of the game, then you would certainly be forced to admit that the Pacers defense in and around the post is at best "lacking". And if you have that appreciation, can you name me more than 2-3 PFs that play better all-around defense, either in the post or even away from the basket, than Josh Smith? Of course, if you don't have that appreciation, then our discussion is moot.
    Hey the Pacers "D" sucks. Smith is a quality defensive PF but anyone would look better playing next to Horford who is the real stud on that team. What I am saying is Hibbert is terrible on the defensive end and Smith will not look so good next to him. I dont think he would lift Hibberts game - I think Hibbert would hinder his. So really, adding Smith would not help our team as much as Iggy and a pg who can "D". Iggy is a great defensive player.
    Our PF position is not bad. Neither is our SF. The other 3 positions are almost to horrible to watch. And I dont see any of them getting better anytime soon.
    If you want to talk about trading for Horford, I am all in on that one. Maybe Varajeo or another Defensive stopper at the 5.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Smith is a great help defender and protects the basket with just his presence.... Would be a huge upgrade

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    In my opinion if it isn't a can't miss opportunity I would rather sit on what we have as far as starters go. When I say can't miss I mean the player is better now and will be better than the player he is replacing 4 or 5 years from now.

    The bench is a different story. I like what we have, but outside of one maybe two players a bench player isn't something you look at as a long term core player (of course with the exception of players still in their rookie contract).

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    Smith is a great defender because he plays next to Horford? Look, Horford is a very good defender and he will help any PF defend better, but there is one thing you need to understand. Josh Smith was acknowledged as a great defender in each of the three years before Horford was ever in the league.

    So Smith was already a great defender, without Horford. So who is to say that it is not Horford that is benefitting from Smith's strong defensive abilities? In reality, I believe both sides of the statement are true... both players seem to compliment each other very well.

    I would agree with one thing you have stated. Our PF position is not that bad... on the offensive end of the floor only. It is very inconsistent on the defensive end of the floor.

    Josh Smith is every bit the defender at the PF position that Igoudala is at SG. I like Igoudala because he is such a tenacious defender and is also able to guard some PGs and quite a few SFs. Smith is also a tenacious defender and is also able to guard quite a few SFs as well as covering PFs / shorter centers that are playing center. Both of these players are about as good as it gets on the defensive end of the floor.

    If we had Danny in foul trouble or injured, no problem. Shift Smith to SF and insert Hansbrough. Or, shift Igoudala to SF and insert George. Either works, depending on the matchup and the offense that might be required against the particular opponent.

    As far as some of our youngsters getting better at defense, I see our perimeter defense improving through George as much more likely than our interior defense improving through Hansbrough or McRoberts. I fully expect George to have a "breakout season" next year on the defensive end of the court. I think he is that close. He has a few problems with ticky-tack fouls and decision-making, but I think many of his problems will be corrected with a few more months of experience and a little more respect from the officials that he will surely get beyond his rookie year.

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    Default Re: Josh Smith Availability

    I don't know but does anybody here really think that a team with DC,PG,Danny,JS and Roy is better than Hinrich,JJ,Marvin,JS and Horford? Like I said before, we need to improve the PG and SG position if we really want to make some noise, I don't see PF,C or SF as top priority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I don't know but does anybody here really think that a team with DC,PG,Danny,JS and Roy is better than Hinrich,JJ,Marvin,JS and Horford? Like I said before, we need to improve the PG and SG position if we really want to make some noise, I don't see PF,C or SF as top priority.
    This is what I have been trying to say. I still cannot understand why so many on this board want to improve the best position on the team first. This makes no sense whatsoever. Even if I agree (and I dont) that Smith is an elite PF, then adding him to our team still only puts us vying for the 8th seed and we just sunk millions into our best position.
    Like you said. ATL's lineup is waaaaaaaay better than ours. If Smith was so good then why would he be available? The answer: the grass always looks better on the other side. Keep Smith and ad a pg/sg/c that can defend and we have a real team here.

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