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Thread: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    There can be almost no argument that they have bungled handling T.J. this past season but now I have to question whether or not they did him dirty.

    Unless there is something we don't know, by all reports T.J. was not a trouble maker, showed up to every practice, team function and even P.R. events that he was required to go to.

    Since Pacers could not arrange a trade for him why in the world would they just not outright release him so he could sign with another team?

    I mean if they had any intention of using him at all, sure keep him around. But as of now he is no longer even with the club. He was supposed to just not go to road games but he wasn't even at the home game the other night and per twitter he was in Houston.

    I just don't get this one. I mean he made it clear two seasons ago that he was going to pick up the option on his contract and he would honor his requirements and would make the team honor their part of it as well (in other words he wasn't going to take a cheap buy out).

    So we are paying him to do absolutely nothing either way, why not just cut ties with the guy so he can get on with his career.

    Or better yet, suite him up as there have been plenty of times that he would have been a far better option than what we had available to us.


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  3. #2

    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    TJ would have been a better choice for starter almost every game the last month. Why haven't they called him up? I think management is pissed he didn't take the buy out. I think they laid down an ultimatum that he wouldn't play anymore if he didn't take a buyout and now they are too stubborn to back down and actually ask him to play.

    As sad as it is, he is the best PG on the team right now. And while it is great to develop our young PGs, we obviously need TJ's help for the playoff run, because DC and AJ are not cutting it.

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    Over the pond ballism's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Well, if no playoff team was interested in paying him the minimum, it might be better for all if he stays. We have more bodies for practice, and TJ will be able to tell "I didn't play due to youth movement" in job interviews this offseason.

    Unless there is some info that we offered a very low buyout?

  5. #4
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    Well, if no playoff team was interested in paying him the minimum, it might be better for all if he stays. We have more bodies for practice, and TJ will be able to tell "I didn't play due to youth movement" in job interviews this offseason.

    Unless there is some info that we offered a very low buyout?
    I'd ASSUME if he isn't asked to be at games then he surely isn't asked to be at practice either.

    If we would've waived him, besides the very unlikely scenario of someone picking him up for the remainder of his contract and thus saving the Pacers a some bucks, wouldn't whatever he signed for after clearing waivers been deducted from the Pacers' obligation to him and at least saved the team a little money?

    And this is the Pacers we're talking about (where dirty laundry sometimes get hidden under the couch a little easier than other places)... there's always the chance this parting of the ways isn't as amicable as we're led to believe. Otherwise, why not cut him??
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    Over the pond ballism's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'd ASSUME if he isn't asked to be at games then he surely isn't asked to be at practice either.

    If we would've waived him, besides the very unlikely scenario of someone picking him up for the remainder of his contract and thus saving the Pacers a some bucks, wouldn't whatever he signed for after clearing waivers been deducted from the Pacers' obligation to him and at least saved the team a little money?

    And this is the Pacers we're talking about (where dirty laundry sometimes get hidden under the couch a little easier than other places)... there's always the chance this parting of the ways isn't as amicable as we're led to believe. Otherwise, why not cut him??
    No, unless he would sign over veteran's minimum.
    If it's minimum, he would just get 2nd salary, and Pacers would get nothing.
    That's why all the fuss about buyouts. Teams want to get part of that 2nd salary through buyout; but if a player like TJ attracts no attention from playoff teams, why would he risk that money?

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    No, unless he would sign over veteran's minimum.
    If it's minimum, he would just get 2nd salary, and Pacers would get nothing.
    That's why all the fuss about buyouts. Teams want to get part of that 2nd salary through buyout; but if a player like TJ attracts no attention from playoff teams, why would he risk that money?
    So in any case, the Pacers had nothing to lose and still potentially something to gain by just cutting him once it was clear he had no interest in a buyout. Is the worst case scenario he signs elsewhere for the minimum and the Pacers have to pay him exactly what they are paying him now?

    Or is there an argument to be made that he could sign with a team that could hurt our playoff chances if they had him?

    Is that grasping for straws to explain the team's handling of the TJ situation?
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    There were no teams interested in signing TJ so he wasn't willing to take a buyout. He admitted this himself. So what do we gain by cutting him?

    If Collison or Price gets hurt, TJ will suddenly be very valuable to us. How stupid would the Pacers front office look if they cut him at no savings and then suddenly find themselves in need of a PG?

    So no, management didn't do him dirty. In fact, they seem to be treating him well by not making him travel with the team. I'm sure he's ready, willing and able to come back if an injury occurs.

    It's pretty tough to do someone dirty while you're paying them $8.5 million.

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    There can be almost no argument that they have bungled handling T.J. this past season but now I have to question whether or not they did him dirty.

    Unless there is something we don't know, by all reports T.J. was not a trouble maker, showed up to every practice, team function and even P.R. events that he was required to go to.

    Since Pacers could not arrange a trade for him why in the world would they just not outright release him so he could sign with another team?

    I mean if they had any intention of using him at all, sure keep him around. But as of now he is no longer even with the club. He was supposed to just not go to road games but he wasn't even at the home game the other night and per twitter he was in Houston.

    I just don't get this one. I mean he made it clear two seasons ago that he was going to pick up the option on his contract and he would honor his requirements and would make the team honor their part of it as well (in other words he wasn't going to take a cheap buy out).

    So we are paying him to do absolutely nothing either way, why not just cut ties with the guy so he can get on with his career.

    Or better yet, suite him up as there have been plenty of times that he would have been a far better option than what we had available to us.



    I read earlier that he wasn't scrimmaging with the team. I can see that, but what happens if a couple point guards go down. The Pacers have hamstrung themselves.

    Of course we don't know all the facts or even who is making the decisions about him. Vocal probably was the one that decided not to use him in scrimmages.

    There was talk of him going to Miami. Maybe management would rather not release him than let him go there. If that's the case I actually approve.

    Again we don't know all the facts.

  12. #9

    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Perhaps TJ Ford did management dirty by keeping them in cap hell for an extra season by picking up an overpriced option that he knew he didn't deserve from a team bleeding cash? He had a chance to leave, and should know just as well as anyone that this was a possibility. He's getting 8mil for nothing, that was his decision, just as it could have been his decision to sacrifice short term profit for longevity.

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  14. #10
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by smj887 View Post
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    Perhaps TJ Ford did management dirty by keeping them in cap hell for an extra season by picking up an overpriced option that he knew he didn't deserve from a team bleeding cash? He had a chance to leave, and should know just as well as anyone that this was a possibility. He's getting 8mil for nothing, that was his decision, just as it could have been his decision to sacrifice short term profit for longevity.
    I find it hard to hold it against Ford that he would opt to have his contract honored... or that the Pacers would hold it against him if he did want to hold them to the terms of the contract.

    Other than not being the answer they hoped at PG (and I'm not even sure they expected anything more out of him than just being a piece of the puzzle to get them out from under JO's contract), he's seemingly acted in a professional manner here in Pacerland.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    So we are paying him to do absolutely nothing
    In what universe would that be dirty?

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    So this swings from "the Pacers would have been doing him a favor to buy him out so he could sign with someone else" to "the Pacers are jerks (or worse) for not buying him out for his full salary by releasing him so he could sign with someone else".

    The question should be, why would the Pacers pay someone's salary to play against them? If there was something in it for them (like some reduction in that salary), fine, but it was TJ who made it clear he wouldn't sign a buyout unless there was pretty much a guarantee someone was ready to sign him on. How does that get twisted to being the Pacers doing him dirt?

    We sure are quick to dump on the FO, aren't we?
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  20. #13

    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    No. He wouldn't give the Pacers a break on his contract last summer. Payback from the Pacers that these teams do not forget come next bargaining session.
    Although Ford is not a troublemaker (by all accounts) his words, exact, were, "This is a business." The Pacers are giving him his business. Hopefully he has saved his cash because he will never, ever see that kind of payola.
    Just another reminder of overpriced professionals.

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?
    If they did do him dirty $103,658.53 per game will buy a lot of soap!!

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  23. #15
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    I'll admit I've never understood how we've handled Ford, not just now, but the whole time he's been here. I've just accepted I must be missing something, because it doesn't make any sense to me.
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  25. #16

    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    So that they don't have to admit they waived another guy with a huge salary-think Tinsley. How many guys do you waive that eat up large percentages of player salaries.

    And all the other reasons mentioned as well. Posey will be next year's non-person.

  26. #17
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Pick your poison: AJ Price or TJ Ford.

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Pick your poison: AJ Price or TJ Ford.
    No poison at all: AJ every time.
    We had seen what Ford brought...OB hadn't let us see what Price brings. We are getting that now.
    And I just don't get how anyone can even claim that the Pacers "bungled" handling T.J.'s situation. They handled it the best they could. Couldn't really feature his skills because the rest of the NBA had seen enough...as the Pacers have!

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    The only thing that makes absolutely no sense here is why they sent him home after they couldn't get a trade or buyout negotiated.

    That literally does zero good for the Pacers, or TJ Ford.

    It's even more perplexing considering the guy was as far from a distraction as we have from our veterans on the team. If we are to somehow back into a playoff spot, he would have been good insurance in case of an injury. Or hell, considering the complete and total ineptitude we've seen from the point guard position, he might have helped us back in.

    There's no question they bungled that decision.

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    I don't think the Pacers are doing Ford dirty since he's being paid big money for nothing. TJ has had a great attitude over this and it should help him to find a backup spot at a low salary with some team next season. However, this is just another example of why guaranteed contracts are bad for the NBA.
    It really comes down to having a commitment to the youth of this team since JOB was fired which Bird and Vogel have lived up to their word. I would like to see us make the playoffs and I think playing Ford for the next 8 games would give us the best chance for that, but I can live with sticking to the youth. We know TJ isn't part of next years team so we'd be playing with a rented player if we used him, on the other hand I'm not so sure about AJ being part of our long term plans either.
    We all griped about our young core not getting the minutes they should have under JOB, now with TJ out, Dun out, and Posey sitting we can't say that isn't happening. I think we have to live with the results now and I hope it means the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So this swings from "the Pacers would have been doing him a favor to buy him out so he could sign with someone else" to "the Pacers are jerks (or worse) for not buying him out for his full salary by releasing him so he could sign with someone else".

    The question should be, why would the Pacers pay someone's salary to play against them? If there was something in it for them (like some reduction in that salary), fine, but it was TJ who made it clear he wouldn't sign a buyout unless there was pretty much a guarantee someone was ready to sign him on. How does that get twisted to being the Pacers doing him dirt?

    We sure are quick to dump on the FO, aren't we?
    Agreed; I don't get this line of thinking. A trade for him couldn't get done, then he wanted to wait to see if a contender was interested in him, and, ultimately, they weren't, and then that was it because there's a deadline for when you can be let go by one team and sign with another and still be eligible to be in the playoffs with your new team.

    So we had (as far as I know) nothing to gain by letting him go, and he only was interested in joining a contender anyway, AND if we don't want him, contenders don't want him, what are the odds that some lesser team wanted him?

    There's nothing dirty about this. He was done with us. We went youth, we have 3 guys to play PG without him. I'm fine with letting him go home.

    It may LOOK like another 'Tinsley', but I don't think it is. Tinsley was the team TELLING him to go home. TJ is simply being given the choice of going home.

  32. #22

    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    it is my understanding from the wells column that TJ was one of the guys clowning during practice. is that not correct??

    notice that since then, the pacer FO spiel about how professional TJ is has ceased.

    it appeared the unspoken deal was TJ kept his mouth shut, and so would the pacer THTB's. and not bash TJ, and keep his chance of getting another good contract alive. since, i assume, that TJ has stopped being the good soldier and instead has become a bad apple, to mix my analogies, it was time to jamaal him.

    if this is not correct, would someone please tell me the real story. thanx.

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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    I'll admit I've never understood how we've handled Ford, not just now, but the whole time he's been here. I've just accepted I must be missing something, because it doesn't make any sense to me.
    What part doesn't make sense?

    1) On the court, we knew we weren't going to keep him in the long term. He was only the backup now, and:

    2) We wanted to go young and give Collison and Price (or Lance) those minutes.

    3) He only wanted to join a contender.

    4) No one was interested in trading for him, or later even signing him for cheap.



    With all that in mind, I don't see anything wrong with letting him leave early if he wanted to or was interested in doing so.

  34. #24
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    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The only thing that makes absolutely no sense here is why they sent him home after they couldn't get a trade or buyout negotiated.

    That literally does zero good for the Pacers, or TJ Ford.

    It's even more perplexing considering the guy was as far from a distraction as we have from our veterans on the team. If we are to somehow back into a playoff spot, he would have been good insurance in case of an injury. Or hell, considering the complete and total ineptitude we've seen from the point guard position, he might have helped us back in.

    There's no question they bungled that decision.
    I wasn't aware that he's excused from showing up for games/practice till this thread. When I think of it though, it makes perfect sense.
    To me, that's just an honorable thing to do in this case.

    TJ's agent obviously called all the teams between deadline and March 1, found that there was no interest in TJ, so there was no point to negotiate a buyout. So the team keeps him as insurance for injuries. But he is told that he can go home spend time with his family, if he wants to, untill an injury may occur.

    That's just the right thing to do. You keep a safety valve, yet for most practical purposes TJ's situation is exactly as if he was bought out.

  35. #25

    Default Re: Did management do T.J. Ford dirty?

    Well FWIW he was part of a March Madness cooking tournament(he represented Texas his alma mater) don't know how far he got though.

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