Grown Man Ball
I don't dislike Price and I was hoping he'd turn into a player. I had high hopes for him. But he doesn't seem to have a good feel for the game. On more than one occasion he's come in and just killed rallies. If he's not hot then the offense is doomed.
I read that he was being encouraged to shoot. I would take the opposite approach. Tell him his job is to pass the ball. Get Brandon involved. Get Paul involved. Those are the guys that need to be encouraged to score.
I agree that Roy wasn't productive during these last games, and his bad performance is one of the reasons we lost. But Roy overall plays a lot better than that, he just had some off games. Roy had actually won us some games. Price on the other hand, played maybe a bit below his average performance, which is simply not enough. He does a lot on defense but how productive has he been on offense? Injured or not, he wasn't shooting the ball well since day one of this season... And when a guy doesn't make his shots, it affects the success of the team. I believe he had a part in these losses, but again, He's not the only one to blame.
Danny Granger. I agree something isn't right. I agree he's not playing as good as he did for example on his MIP year. I agree he needs more hustle, better D and maybe even better shot selection. But overall he plays well, and I think one guy can only do as much. Once Tyler/Roy/Anyone becomes a consistent offensive threat, IMO Granger won't need to have the burden of carrying our offense, and will play better offense and defense. Last night I saw him double teamed every time he got the ball outside, but we failed to utilize it. Generally I don't blame him. I want him to do more but he does a lot already.
By the way, one more thing, I'm not saying DG and Roy play bad because the way our point guards are playing, but I believe there is partially a connection
In fact, a majority of the time, he comes into the game, down double digits and has to try and figure out how to get the team back into it. And up until recently, did a pretty darn good job of it.
And then he gets thrown on the court with Dahntay, Rush, Josh, and Jeff.
With that rotation in, who do you think Vogel wants to score? I think it's pretty obvious. I also think it's pretty obvious that its a really bad rotation, Jim O'brien bad rotation actually..but that's another thread.
He was running the offense fine last night. Because people who were on the court with him were actually scoring. He wasn't stuck in a position where he felt like he had to score. He wasn't looking for his own shot at all..because other people were scoring.
Last edited by Sookie; 03-27-2011 at 03:34 PM.
Oh man when I first read this title I was like please don't let sookie see this please.
And then it was wayy to late.
But I think the 2nd unit, we have Dahntay who wants the ball, and we need some balance, AJ provides some of that. And in that 2nd unit we can't have Dahntay shoot so much, so AJ has to take it up. Although I wish Rush would shoot more.
Sookie, I still don't think that you get what many here are expecting from our point guards, the point guards are pretty much the same thing as the QB in football, just imagine how bad would a football team be without a good QB, so are you going to complaint about the receivers if they can't get the ball at the right time or you are going to blame the crappy QB that can't trow the ball for s***? the same thing is happening here, yeah the other guys are not playing well but when your main ball handlers and "floor generals" suck at distributing the ball and making good decisions your team is going to suck unless you have all star quality players on the other positions.
Wow. I am so proud of how we refer to our own players.
Personally, I thought that we got rid of any and all players that were problems off the court. Or those that perhaps could be referred to as "bush league".
I thought that those that we had left were the "good guys". Even if occassionally we take exception to how they choose to perform or play the game.
I only see one person blaming AJ for a loss/losses and a lot of people being critical of his play which I think is fair.
I really wish our players cared about winning or losing as much as some of the posters on this board.
I'm really frustrated and disappointed everytime we've had an opportunity to really make a push this season they've managed to kick this fanbase in its collective crotch. To a lesser extent it's like we're all in some abusive relationship you know you're eventually going to get hurt but you keep going back hoping that things will change eventually.
I agree and it's suspicious.I only see one person blaming AJ for a loss/losses and a lot of people being critical of his play which I think is fair.
Plenty of us go to hyperbole or get heated, but the trend with this poster seems more intentional and consistent. I think a lot of bickering is going on between us following one of these grenades when in fact we aren't that far off from each others viewpoint as this makes it seem.
As Hicks said, is it really the same people that were wanting AJ to get a shot that are now asking for him to be benched? Of course it isn't.
Price's shot is a train wreck now, and his FGA/Min is way out of whack for how he was as a prospect. Whatever directive he's getting from the offense, whatever he thinks is the right way to run the Pacers offense, it's screwed up.
I'm not for giving him endless chances, even though he was a pet fave prospect for me and seems really likable. But as I would with nearly everyone on this squad I would like to see how things go with a summer and going into 2 months of next season. By then all these guys should either be proving out our faith or proving that they need to be replaced.
The mid-season change to Vogel came way too late. If JOB had been dumped last summer we might be able to feel more certain about any players currently struggling. As it stands you have all that coaching and leadership chaos mixed in, there's no continuity right now.
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-27-2011 at 06:11 PM.
I have known several through the years and I can assure you of one thing. They care deeply about winning or losing every single time they step on the floor.
Just like a baseball pitcher, they know that they will have good games and they will have bad games. Most of the guys that I have known have learned not allow themselves to get to high after a big win nor too low after a terrible loss. They play 82 games in a year and if they are lucky, 500 or more in their careers. If they allow the emotional highs and lows of any single game to stay with them for long, it will most certainly screw up what they are trying to do in subsequent games.
So, just because they can't seem to get things turned aroound as quickly as many of us would like, you are totally wrong if you think they do not care nearly as much as we do.
aj has shown potential, and he does belong in the NBA. as a second round pick, i think that aj has done well for himself. i actually am going to blame coach vogel for his struggles. When AJ is in the game, he has the green light to shoot. Price hasn't proven himself enough in this league to have earned "green light" status. Vogel should have never okayed AJ to be so quick to shoot, and should have encouraged AJ to be more of a distributor.
I didn't watch him at UCONN other than in the tournament and sporadically during the season.
When we drafted him he was just "that guy who stole the laptops" as far as I was concerned.
But last year he was a pass first floor general. And a good one at that. Why that changed this season, and it undeniably has, I do not know. But I know I want last year's AJ back.
"I had to take her down like Chris Brown."
I'm not ready to write him off entirely...you can't realistically expect him to be 100% less than a year after knee surgery. But his shooting has been bad enough to make me wonder why we haven't put TJ back in the rotation. Seriously, it went from 'just a slump' to 'you know it's not going in'.
To me, to say AJ is the best of our PG's is laughable
Dc , faults and all is a way better PG than AJ
Sittin on top of the world!
AJ has been terrible all season. Truly abysmal.
And he has still been better than DC.
Even if it were to be conceded that DC is a bettre offensive player, and it is close, the drop in defense is enough to swing the tide.
"I had to take her down like Chris Brown."
Unless you mean when DC is struggling to score, that is a ridiculous statement to make. You're being too hard on both of them (not to be confused with realistic, by the way), frankly.
I'm not saying we're on opposite ends of the spectrum on this, but that's overboard. I'd like to think you know it, too.
I disagree, but respect your opinion
Thats the thing about these type of posts. Its always an opinion never a fact
I think TJ is the most talented PG on our roster, I know a lot of people disagree with that though
no worries, makes for good conversation
Sittin on top of the world!
And they've had some truly terrible ones.
I would expect people to have, realistically, given these two more leeway than any other guys on the team, with the exception of PG. Both have extremely limited experience and both are playing the hardest position on the floor, and for various other reasons you would have just thought that there would be some understanding of..these two are likely to struggle.
Quite frankly, as poor as they've played recently..they aren't the sole reason, and quite frankly I'd go as far as to say they aren't even the reason, why this team has lost the last two games.
As I said, if two of Danny, Roy, or Hans play well..we win. If one or less plays well, we aren't winning. Danny's been bad, Roy has been not so great, and Hans has been brought back to earth (although still playing decently offensively..)