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Thread: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    I know this is a highlight film from one game but I just wanted to show what kind of passing and scoring could Felton do for us, the guy is really good.


  2. #52
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Here is another one were he also got to make a last second shot.




  3. #53
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Here is one play I don't imagine either one of our point guard making.



  4. #54

    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Thats two carries..our PGs do that all the time. :P

    (and yes, I've seen similar bounce passes from both of them)

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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Yeah we need Felton, hopefully Larry or whoever could make that deal happen and trade for him.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
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    unless you get a player who is a clear upgrade in every aspect to him--which is likely a top 5 point guard.

    You can't be serious. Surely you jest.

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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    I'm all for giving DC a real chance with a stable coaching staff and a real system that he learns from training camp on. I do like Felton but I don't think we need him at this point.

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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Well i agree. i see no point to make major trades now. Felton - we can sign after the lockout if we want. Calderon - no defensive IQ, keeps bumping every screen, I'd have to close my eyes every time on defense. Hinrich - old-ish. Stephen Curry - we don't have the assets.

    So yeah, wait, give DC a chance to play under a new coach, then see.
    Unless Minnie makes Rubio available - which it might. In which case, grab him. At worst, he's Rondo of the last month (pretty good defense, great passing, no shooting, scared to penetrate - what's wrong with Rondo btw, is it injuries or mental). At best, he develops into a normal Rondo with great defense, great passing, no shooting and great penetration.

  9. #59

    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    Well i agree. i see no point to make major trades now. Felton - we can sign after the lockout if we want. Calderon - no defensive IQ, keeps bumping every screen, I'd have to close my eyes every time on defense. Hinrich - old-ish. Stephen Curry - we don't have the assets.

    So yeah, wait, give DC a chance to play under a new coach, then see.
    Unless Minnie makes Rubio available - which it might. In which case, grab him. At worst, he's Rondo of the last month (pretty good defense, great passing, no shooting, scared to penetrate - what's wrong with Rondo btw, is it injuries or mental). At best, he develops into a normal Rondo with great defense, great passing, no shooting and great penetration.
    I know you are over in Europe but do you honestly believe Rubio is like Rondo? Honestly one of the things that makes Rondo great to me is his ablility to penetrate at will and dish it out. IF Rubio is scared to penetrate then I wouldn't compare the two.

    The Felton trade is still better before the lockout. First of all I highly doubt we lose the entire 2011-2012 season and secondly we would have a year to see what we have with Collison and Felton. If we want to resign Felton then we would have an advantage if we made the trade before the lockout and we could use our 1st round pick as bait.

    How long have the Pacers relied on average talent or unproven talent to man the pg position. Tinsley, Sarunas, Ford, Watson, Jack etc.... ITs time for the game of musical chair pgs to stop.

    At 7 million Felton is not a finacial hindrance to the team and he would be better than any point guard we have had in the last 8 years.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 03-28-2011 at 09:43 AM.

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  11. #60
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    I realize this is likely unfair, but I think it should be pointed out how Felton did in the playoffs last year against another average point guard.

    Nelson averaged: 24 pts per game. Felton 12 pts per game. Nelson shot 49%, Felton 41%. They both averaged 5 assists per game. Granted the Bobcats doubled Howard a lot, but I watched a lot of the series and Felton did not play well at all.

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  13. #61
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I know you are over in Europe but do you honestly believe Rubio is like Rondo? Honestly one of the things that makes Rondo great to me is his ablility to penetrate at will and dish it out. IF Rubio is scared to penetrate then I wouldn't compare the two.
    Find a Rondo game from November or December, compare it with how he plays right now, and you'll see what I mean about 'scared to penetrate'.

    That's how Rubio plays right now, but that's also how the system works in Barcelona.
    Rubio used to extremely aggressive and creative going to the basket with Joventut few years ago. Especially in the clutch. Add very high motor on defense, high IQ and supreme passing, and you can see the Rondo comparisons. But that's few years ago.
    There are people who think Rubio's game has regressed in Barcelona and might never go back.
    So that's the risk - but given he looked more complete at 18 than now at 20, and all that's really changed is the coach and players around him, I'd take that risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    The Felton trade is still better before the lockout. First of all I highly doubt we lose the entire 2011-2012 season and secondly we would have a year to see what we have with Collison and Felton. If we want to resign Felton then we would have an advantage if we made the trade before the lockout and we could use our 1st round pick as bait.
    I don't agree there. What advantage would that be? Felton is not a max guy, so the only real advantage would be Bird rights.... And (A) we won't need Bird rights if we are under cap, (B) Bird rights might not even exist in the new CBA.

    And ok, say there's no lockout or a lockout like in 1998.
    Does Felton get us a top 4 seed and out of round 1?
    Are we better than Chicago, Miami, Boston and Orlando?
    If not, then it's insane to give a 1st pick for a few months of Felton. Pure craziness. Why not just draft some decent role player and sign Felton next summer. We aren't a deep playoff team, Felton or no Felton. We need to keep adding assets, not waste them away on rentals.

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  15. #62
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I realize this is likely unfair, but I think it should be pointed out how Felton did in the playoffs last year against another average point guard.

    Nelson averaged: 24 pts per game. Felton 12 pts per game. Nelson shot 49%, Felton 41%. They both averaged 5 assists per game. Granted the Bobcats doubled Howard a lot, but I watched a lot of the series and Felton did not play well at all.
    I don't watch much Charlotte, but it does seem that Larry Brown's system limited him quite a bit. Especially in terms of passing and freedom to shoot. He's not D-Will, but he can defend, he's mentally strong, good leader and he's clearly better than 41% and 5 assists.

    That said, his performance in New York got him a bit overrated with the fans, imo. Also, the fact that Denver wanted him when they could just keep Billups. That's more a reflection on Billups' decline to be honest, especially defensively, but hey, it does boost your image when you are wanted more than the Big Shot.

    Edit
    On that note, how crazy is it that Michael Jordan lost Tyson Chandler, Gerald Wallace and Felton in one year and didn't really get any value in return?
    If you want to make the playoffs and make some noise - not looking far into the future, just for one or two years - who would rather have:
    Tyson Chandler, Gerald Wallace, Felton and Stephen Jackson
    or
    Hibbert, Danny, Collison and Hansbrough?
    Personally, I'd choose first option with ease, but either way, it's just crazy to blow that roster up and not even get any good young players or picks back. MJ the owner, ladies and gentlemen.
    Last edited by ballism; 03-28-2011 at 11:05 AM.

  16. #63

    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    I don't agree there. What advantage would that be? Felton is not a max guy, so the only real advantage would be Bird rights.... And (A) we won't need Bird rights if we are under cap, (B) Bird rights might not even exist in the new CBA.
    We may or may not be under the cap like we are now in 2012. You think Bird is going to sit on a bunch of cash or better yet if Bird isn't here after this season do you think a new GM is going to sit on a bunch of cash this year? If you think so then i guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

    Call me crazy but I think Felton would resign here if we had a year to sell him on our team. Would being the 5th seeded team in the East be enough? Well considering how young our team is I tend to think that Felton would buy into that we are an up and coming team in the East who are able to compete with the old (Boston), dysfunctional (Heat,Knicks) and underperforming salary strapped (Magic).
    Last edited by Gamble1; 03-28-2011 at 11:00 AM.

  17. #64
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    We may or may not be under the cap like we are now in 2012. You think Bird is going to sit on a bunch of cash or better yet if Bird isn't here after this season do you think a new GM is going to sit on a bunch of cash this year? If you think so then i guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
    Well yes, I kind of think we'll end up keeping most of the cap. Not that we'll want it, but really, who will be there to sign?
    All the big names this year got extensions - Durant, Melo, Noah, Horford, Perkins, even Mike Conley, and Z-Bo should get one too. Then there's West who's injured, and Marc Gasol who will stay in Memphis one way or another. Yao Ming either stays in Houston or retires.

    Then you have J-Rich who might be nice for us, but really, Orlando can't afford to let him go. If they let him go, they can't add anyone because Otis Smith is crazy and screwed up their cap. And they need to keep Dwight happy. So they will overpay J-Rich and we won't get him.

    Then you have guys like Nene, Tyson Chandler, Jeff Green, DeAndre Jordan, Greg Oden, Stuckey, Wilson Chandler, Glen Davis... These guys are all young or vets who are highly valued by their teams, and you know teams won't just let them walk. Basically, teams are waiting for the new CBA rules and most of these guys should be resigned. If this was another year, most of these guys would already have extensions. If some of them decide to walk, I'm not surprised; but I'm not surprised if all of them get new deals from their teams on first day of free agency.

    So basically, I think you have David West if he recovers (possible if there's any lockout). You have Vince Carter (non guaranteed contract for 2011-12). Sam Dalembert. Caron Butler, Andrei Kirilenko. All good starters or better.
    Then you have a bunch of "blah" guys like JR Smith, Carl Landry, Mike Dunleavy, Reggie Evans, Al Thornton, Earl Clark.

    This is a terrible terrible free agency. And keep in mind, there's some 6-8 teams with good cap space (depending on new CBA).
    The way I see it, we probably try to do a trade for Mayo. Resign Dunleavy at low money. Maybe resign McRoberts. Try to throw 10 mil a year deal if a guy like Nene is available, and if not, try to get a decent backup 5 like Dalembert.
    I'd be extremely surprised if we don't keep at least half of our cap space.

    But again, that's just my opinion. Hopefully, I'm too pessimistic.

    PS Man, I wasn't expecting this to take so much space when i started....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Call me crazy but I think Felton would resign here if we had a year to sell him on our team. Would being the 5th seeded team in the East be enough? Well considering how young our team is I tend to think that Felton would buy into that we are an up and coming team in the East who are able to compete with the old (Boston), dysfunctional (Heat,Knicks) and underperforming salary strapped (Magic).
    If we are a 5th seed, we are still playoff meat. An outsider's chance at second round? That's nothing special. I would hate us to trade away picks just to be a 5th seed and get stuck there for years like the Hawks. Besides, I don't think we are a 5th seed just by adding Felton + random role players from this free agency. Lets say, Bulls, Heat, Celts and Magic stay who they are. Knicks, Phillie, Bucks and Nets will improve (unless there are injuries). Felton won't be enough to get past 4 of those teams. It would take huge improvement from our young guys. I'd rather keep adding assets. We are a 35 win team with ways to go. This isn't time to trade picks for vets, unless they are stars, imo.

  18. #65

    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    Then you have J-Rich who might be nice for us, but really, Orlando can't afford to let him go. If they let him go, they can't add anyone because Otis Smith is crazy and screwed up their cap. And they need to keep Dwight happy. So they will overpay J-Rich and we won't get him.

    Then you have guys like Nene, Tyson Chandler, Jeff Green, DeAndre Jordan, Greg Oden, Stuckey, Wilson Chandler, Glen Davis... These guys are all young or vets who are highly valued by their teams, and you know teams won't just let them walk. Basically, teams are waiting for the new CBA rules and most of these guys should be resigned. If this was another year, most of these guys would already have extensions. If some of them decide to walk, I'm not surprised; but I'm not surprised if all of them get new deals from their teams on first day of free agency.

    Knicks, Phillie, Bucks and Nets will improve (unless there are injuries). Felton won't be enough to get past 4 of those teams. It would take huge improvement from our young guys. I'd rather keep adding assets. We are a 35 win team with ways to go. This isn't time to trade picks for vets, unless they are stars, imo.
    I appreciate the detailed response.

    One thing i don't understand is why you think those teams will improve very much. Most of those teams are endanger of going over the cap so its not like they will be big players in FA's and its not like this draft is going to put them heads above us.

    The fact is that these teams aren't going to stay the same. Phillie has to sign Thaddeus Young, replace Kapono (shouldn't be too hard). The Knicks will have to have more than 3 players on their team. The Bucks will have to resign or replace CDR not to mention that they are not a very good team already. The Nets will have to replace or resign another double double guy in Kris Humphries and resign or replace Sasha.

    Phillie is the only team I can see giving us problems but that just my opinion.

    As far as Jason Richardson is concerned lets just say I have my doubts that they can keep running their franchise they way they have. Two years from now they will still owe 77 million and thats not with a resigned Richardson.

    The FA's does suck but I think there will be some sign and trade possibilites out there along with cap relief for other teams assuming that the CBA works in our small market favor.

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  20. #66
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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    What I really like about Felton is that he dishes out at least 7-8 assists per game.

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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I appreciate the detailed response.

    One thing i don't understand is why you think those teams will improve very much. Most of those teams are endanger of going over the cap so its not like they will be big players in FA's and its not like this draft is going to put them heads above us.

    The fact is that these teams aren't going to stay the same. Phillie has to sign Thaddeus Young, replace Kapono (shouldn't be too hard). The Knicks will have to have more than 3 players on their team. The Bucks will have to resign or replace CDR not to mention that they are not a very good team already. The Nets will have to replace or resign another double double guy in Kris Humphries and resign or replace Sasha.

    Phillie is the only team I can see giving us problems but that just my opinion.

    As far as Jason Richardson is concerned lets just say I have my doubts that they can keep running their franchise they way they have. Two years from now they will still owe 77 million and thats not with a resigned Richardson.

    The FA's does suck but I think there will be some sign and trade possibilites out there along with cap relief for other teams assuming that the CBA works in our small market favor.
    Well Phillie is already much better than their record. Same goes for Nets with Deron. They should have more wins even if they don't add anyone and guys like Jrue Holliday, Lopez, Young and Turner don't improve at all.

    Bucks are only this bad due to injuries. Bogut should keep recovering. Has any young player ever went from All NBA to scrub due to broken hand and stayed that way forever? Neither will Bogut. And almost everyone else was injured on that roster.

    Knicks, well, they aren't a 35 win team like they've been since Melo. They'll get used to coaching and be fine. If I'm wrong, cool. But I think they'll be much better. Also, I think they'll find a way to add some help. In the worst case, Mike D'Antoni keeps turning a couple D League stiffs into decent players every year, and he can try it again.

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    Default Re: Point Guard position? ---- Raymond Felton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    As far as Jason Richardson is concerned lets just say I have my doubts that they can keep running their franchise they way they have. Two years from now they will still owe 77 million and thats not with a resigned Richardson.

    The FA's does suck but I think there will be some sign and trade possibilites out there along with cap relief for other teams assuming that the CBA works in our small market favor.
    I hope so as far as J-Rich, just not very optimistic.

    As far as sign of trades, there's no point for us. I mean, if we are under cap, what's the point in sign and trades. Just sign the guy. SnT is good if you don't have the cap space, or if you want to give the guy the biggest longest deal possible (like Magic gave Lewis), or if you want to give the guy bigger annual raises (like Heat with LeBron and Bosh).

    I agree though, there could be cap relief situations that we might use. Other than Mayo. How about taking Lamar Odom+Ron Artest to ease Lakers pains, anyone? I could easily imagine team like Hawks cutting costs and taking Hibbert for Josh Smith, then move Horford to 4. Or Jazz give away Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap for a few picks. If we end up with a Smith/Jefferson/Mayo/Danny lineup, I'm more than happy to use all cap space. In that case, I'm not against any Felton trade either - that team could challenge for home court, imo. Ok, but that's too much ifs and maybies for now.
    Last edited by ballism; 03-28-2011 at 09:30 PM.

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