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Thread: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

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    Default Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    The Pacers' trainwreck is quickly coming to an end and the third year of Bird's self-professed three-year plan is almost over. How do you feel about the franchise's progression in those three years? Is it okay that the Pacers are on the verge of missing the playoffs for the third year in a row and effectively situated in fringe lottery limbo? Or should we be expecting more by now?

    Honest question. I see some folks on here defending the record and play as a result of the youth movement...but hasn't that youth movement been going on for a while now? And isn't the idea of a three-year plan that the Pacers would fare substantially better in the third year of that plan than the second and first?

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    There are some serious chemistry problems and lack of effort from our key players, but to be fair this is really the first time that most of them are getting extended minutes for a prolonged period of time.

    What's happening now should've happened three seasons ago but never had a chance to happen, imo.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Sadly, the youth movement didn't start until January 27th. We'd be in better shape now if the youth movement had started 2 years ago like it should have.

    See what I did there. It's all Jimmy's fault.
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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    We'll see when the season ends.

    Can't say it looks bright for now, but again, I can't judge yet

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    No, the youth movement hasn't been going on for awhile now. Last year, TJ Ford/Earl Watson was our starting PG, our starting SG was Rush, and our starting PF was Murphy. Lots of new faces as far as who gets the majority of the minutes, and that's a change that started at the beginning of the season and continued throughout. Heck, Hansbrough is our starting PF and that didn't happen until January/February. But if you define the "youth movement" as "giving extended minutes to first round picks," then I think it could be argued that happens every year for every team that has a pick in the top 20.

    As for the "isn't the idea of a three-year plan that the Pacers would fare substantially better in the third year of that plan than the second and first," I don't think so. If you've got a four year plan to finish college, does that mean you get your degree in the fourth year? And ultimately, I do believe this team is substantially better, even if that's not indicated by the record. The 3 year plan, if such a thing exists, looks like it was to acquire solid players, a couple prospects, and get out of cap hell. At the end of the 3 year plan, the team will have accomplished that.

    Really, I think the 3 year plan was just fluff speak to begin with. Something to appease those who wanted to tear up the team, to give the team a chance to chase the playoffs for the past few years and remain moderately relevant in Indy. Let's be honest, the city has basically taken a big dump on the Pacers over the last half decade. The team has been bleeding money and rumored to be leaving for the past several seasons, and attendance is almost bottom of the league. Imagine how much worse it would be if the team had been gutted for expirings or whatever mediocre player people wanted to shackle themselves to in exchange for getting rid of Murphy. If this was a 20 win team with no hope of making the playoffs once December hit, I wonder how much worse things would be. With the crappy support the team has gotten, I'm perfectly fine with sitting on expiring deals and making half assed attempts at the playoffs if it means holding onto a last segment of casual fans.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    What's happening now should've happened three seasons ago but never had a chance to happen, imo.
    What, a year of mediocrity? We had that three seasons ago.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    I heard the 3 year plan was meant by every leap year counts as a single year. So we still have 9 more years to go

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I heard the 3 year plan was meant by every leap year counts as a single year. So we still have 9 more years to go
    I think that's more realistic than a three year plan. Normally, when a team reaches rock bottom, it takes a decade or more to recover. Especially a small market team like us, who can't really attract free agents or high level prospects.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Well it looks like Bird's potential "2011 summer plan" isn't going to be what he was planning.

    There's pretty much nobody worth signing to max deals as they all re-signed or David West.

    In 2012, we'll have more options so it's not worth settling.

    In this offseason, we need to make some good deals and bring in talent (OJ Mayo).

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    I don't know if it's ever been done in three years, but if we can get a good player or two and come together as a team next season with a winning record and good chance at playing well in playoffs... Bird did his job in my eyes. (that's a lot of qualifications)

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Well it looks like Bird's potential "2011 summer plan" isn't going to be what he was planning.

    There's pretty much nobody worth signing to max deals as they all re-signed or David West.

    In 2012, we'll have more options so it's not worth settling.

    In this offseason, we need to make some good deals and bring in talent (OJ Mayo).
    I rarely agree with you since you're a sunshiner, but I gotta say man.. good post

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...


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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    There are some serious chemistry problems and lack of effort from our key players, but to be fair this is really the first time that most of them are getting extended minutes for a prolonged period of time.

    What's happening now should've happened three seasons ago but never had a chance to happen, imo.
    But that was part of Bird's 3 year plan implementation. That's the problem. You can't pull one part to the side and ignore it.

    If Bird was trying to assemble a bunch of young pieces for future development then he made a massive mistake of hiring JOB, a biggest mistake to keep him, and a monster mistake by extending him.

    You lost your shot at Tom Thibideau and Doug Collins, just for starters. You wasted years of player development time.


    Normally, when a team reaches rock bottom, it takes a decade or more to recover.
    Luckily there's tons of evidence for this. And of course by rock bottom you mean "kinda just below the middle sorta".

    Sixers lost more games and are now winning more games. Took about one summer and a good coaching hire. It's not even their top draft pick that's doing this for them.

    Magic were a playoff team, then won 21 games and fired Rivers. After 2 more seasons of 36 wins (oh no, stuck in the middle without a really high pick, they are doomed) they won 40 and made the playoffs...for Bob Hill no less.

    The Heat were a .600 ball club. Fell to 36 and then 25 wins, and then returned to the top of the pile. Then had one 15 win season, and climb right back in the middle of things yet again.

    And still managed to also clear the cap space for last summer even while making back to back playoff runs.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by smj887 View Post
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    If this was a 20 win team with no hope of making the playoffs once December hit, I wonder how much worse things would be.
    I say the team's fans that are left at this point are hard core enough to understand a rebuild and you wouldn't see a mass exodus at the gate.

    These, for the most part, are fans that understand the NBA's CBA and understand the lottery system.

    When you have what ultimately have been season upon season of 'lost' seasons eventually you have to ask what if we would've just played the younger players, taken our lumps, got them experience, and gotten a couple of high draft picks in the process during one or two of those seasons?

    Would the casual fans have cared any less if the team had won 5-10 less games? Plus, you get some good PR with a top pick. Besides giving the hard core fans who understand the rebuilding process something to watch and cheer for hoping to see the development of the team as they play together, you also have the chance of landing casual fans to see this newcomer with all the accolades bestowed upon him.

    Personally, I believe the hard core fans are turned off by mediocrity as much as the casual fans because the hard core fans understand being middle of the road tends to lead to a middle of the road pick and little chance of finding that star player the team needs. You at least stand a chance of energizing the hard core fans with a high draft pick and the opportunity to watch young players develop... rather than just creating apathy...

    The problem with the O'Brien years was we had young players not developing nor getting consistent roles AND nothing but mediocre records and lost seasons to show for it either.

    IMHO the 3 year plan should've been accepting we weren't going to be very good for much of that, shedding salary and making shrewd deals, developing young players, trying to win with the young players that we felt were part of the future (or could be part of the future), and collecting top draft picks. ....and maybe we catch lightning in a bottle and make the playoffs in there somewhere. ...and if not... well hindsight tells us we didn't make the playoffs anyway.... (of course I'm thinking this is year 4 of the 3 year plan... if you started the clock 3 years ago then maybe we do reach the playoffs in the 3rd year...)
    Last edited by Bball; 03-27-2011 at 03:47 AM.
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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    My understanding of the "three-year plan" was that we would wait out our expiring contracts, acquire some assets with the cap space, and return to the playoffs in Year 4. So, if we make the playoffs this season, we will technically be slightly ahead of schedule, but only because the East is so bad this year.

    We have a lot of work to do in the off-season.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    Honest question. I see some folks on here defending the record and play as a result of the youth movement...but hasn't that youth movement been going on for a while now?
    No.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    The way this board bounces, should the Pacers beat the Celtics, this thread will become "What do we need to change?"
    I am not certain what we need to do other than bring in guys who will bring EFFORT every night. This business of throwing up three pointers and missing gimmes while playing no defense doesn't add up to anyone's "three year plan", Bird included.
    The pieces are there..where's the motivation?

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    I think we have to wait until after the off season to really tell.

    Our big thing was the money we would have to spend. We haven't seen where we're going to go with that, yet.

    If Bird fails to bring in good players in the off season, then the 3 year plan was probably a massive failure.

    It's clear that a good majority of the roster needs to go. But it's unfair until we see what Bird can do with all that money we've been waiting to go away.

    But also, to be fair, it's very very hard to rebuild a whole team into what most of us expect in a 3 year period. That's not easy to do. And I think people sometimes view the real Pacers as NBA 2k11 or some other video game. Dealing with that actual amount of money and contracts is no easy task to handle. It's not like Bird can just turn on "Trade Override" and suddenly we're dominating. It doesn't work that way.

    We'll see, though.
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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    I think the originater of this thread slightly missed the point of the three year plan. They knew there was an ugly luckout coming, and in large part the plan was to have money, coach, gm etc... coming off the books for the lockout. I don't think Bird ever said we'd have a great team in three years, just a playoff team.

    As it is, I think it's time to blow this team up. They way it's composed now is not going to compete, and I think it's time to try and move DG and DC and a few of the other less involved player.

    Not the best draft or free agency, so I'm hoping the Pacers keep cap room rolling forward and don't pull a Detriot, overpaying for mediocre talent. That or they use the cap room to absorb a bad contract as part of taking on a talent for teams looking to get under the new CBA.
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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    My understanding of the "three-year plan" was that we would wait out our expiring contracts, acquire some assets with the cap space, and return to the playoffs in Year 4. So, if we make the playoffs this season, we will technically be slightly ahead of schedule, but only because the East is so bad this year.

    We have a lot of work to do in the off-season.
    No Bird said he would get us in the playoffs by year 3 or that was the goal.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    I'd rather his goal for us to be a .500+ team.

    We'd be making the playoffs this season by default because the 8th seed and lower is full of bad teams.

    I wouldn't say that's mission accomplished at all.

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    The last 20 games this season has, if nothing else, made me question which positions we should be targeting with our cap space.

    Based on how the season has progressed and what I've seen from our starters, right now, I'm seeing point guard and shooting guard as higher priority than power forward, as it comes to finding a suitable starter to help lead us deeper into the playoffs over the next few years. I'm just not convinced that Darren and Paul are the answers at starter for the next few years. As backups, 100% yes. I may get stoned for saying this, but I'm not convinced that Roy is our long term answer at center unless we surround him with the right types of players. He has some physical limitations that no amount of gym time can fix.

    The unfortunate problem is, most of the players I would target for PG and SG are all restricted free agents this year...
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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Keeping JOB for the 3 years plan has made the 3 years 6 years, thanks Larry and Jim..........

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Year 3 Of Bird's Three-Year Plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    No Bird said he would get us in the playoffs by year 3 or that was the goal.
    That was his goal, but 'The Plan' didn't refer to that goal, it referred to the bigger picture of becoming a good or better than good team again, which is supposed to start next year.

    Obviously that's not looking too likely at this point, unless this off season is a home run.

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