What sucks is that if it weren't for all this bizarre overreaction we could have really sane, interesting discussions of his progression and how he might be well on his way to making my projection that he didn't have what it takes to make it look stupid.
It doesn't have to be this crazy debate about how the most cheered player in Conseco is being "hated".
Things I was wrong about initially - Tyler won't be able to draw fouls the same way. This went wrong for me right away, although at least I recognized that a major portion of his scoring was via FTAs (in college).
That's it. What I was right about was that he was undersized, didn't have the power scoring game that Bird suggested and didn't have a quality set of go-to scoring moves, and all of this would keep his scoring/FG% down.
That was happening. I said he would get stuffed a lot inside and he did. Not at the rim, below the rim. If he didn't draw fouls it would have been a disaster.
Dude dialed in this jumper, Vogel started putting him in PnR to get him that shot and he partially reinvented himself as this dagger machine from 18 feet.
It's not really what we were supposed to be drafting for at the time because we already had a PF that could shoot from the outside, and as nice as Tyler is shooting it's still not 40% from 3 for a full season or two.
Tyler is what Troy was EXCEPT that he gives you defense and much higher value rebounds (ie, tough ones that you might not have gotten without Tyler).
He's not the true power guy that Blair is or that the Pacers were in need of at the time, but what he has become does fit the team's need quite well at this point. His shooting opens up the lane for Collison and flat out puts points up at a HIGH PPS, higher than what his PPS was running up until the last month.
I AM NOT COMPLAINING when it comes to Tyler's play. I'll eat the humble pie happily as he becomes something I never saw him becoming. I'm a Pacers fan after all.
I am tired of people acting like people like me aren't saying what I just said. It's even worse when some of those people are just as happy to rip on Josh, Rush or George because they somehow view them as direct competition for Tyler's fanbase. It's not an either or situation.
The majority of fans loved the Tyler pick since day 1.
This is wrong, I can tell you by been one of the few guys in PD that wanted Tyler (me and Pwee), I argued with a lot of people for months about the pick and the majority of the people were either meh or gross out by the pick.
I thought for sure Roy and Josh would be the first two to go off, and maybe AJ. Roy has a little but not quite as directly.
People forget that Tyler got TONS of minutes before the vertigo kicked in. He was being used like a normal rookie, regularly getting 15-20 minutes while Josh was getting DNP'd and Rush/Roy were getting all sorts of mixed signals and comments to the press.
To me it makes Tyler's comments more legit because it's not just a "I wanted to play and he wouldn't put me in" anger. It's a lot more like "WTF was this dude doing". And his shooting is adding weight to his comments.
This may be the biggest thing Tyler has done to make me a fan.
Don't take my word for it. Let's have the post-draft summer PD party chime in. I ragged on the pick at that party. I have video of some of the positive Tyler stuff that was said. Ask BillS, Gnome, Hicks, Peck or whomever else was there. Gamble as I recall, DiamondDave, a good portion of all the regulars. You might have been at that party too I think.
I was the only downer person on that pick in the place. Maybe 1-2 others max.
More people said that JOB wouldn't use him because he couldn't shoot the 3 than thought Tyler wasn't going to be a solid player.
I was at the "preseason party" and many guys if remember right were just OK with the pick, I also remember that you were dissapointed.
I was the guy that said at the party that Tyler was the right complement to Roy and if I remember right, whoever was in front of me(Thunderbird maybe?) was the only person agreeing with me about Tyler.
I don't know if you remember this but I was the guy who said that one of the reason why they drafted Hansbrough was in big part to bring the Indianapolis fans back and you agreed with me
Last edited by vnzla81; 03-24-2011 at 11:09 PM.
Specifically - you CAN NOT slip off a shooting screen for Danny because you are trying to get yourself free for a potential shot. Danny is counting on you holding that shooting screen.
Tyler DOES slip all picks and screens now. Always. He doesn't hold contact like a role playing big does (Josh, Foster).
Tyler is moving and spacing to get himself free for a shot on offense. I understand why since he always was the main option prior to the NBA but that doesn't make it correct now.
This doesn't even get into the defensive end where he (and Paul) are both really dropping the team defense ball and putting guys like Roy and Jeff into tougher spots. If Tyler doesn't rotate and this forces Roy to come help and results in the foul, that's not helping Roy or the team out.
This isn't Tyler getting beat directly and it's not a Tyler foul, so people don't see it as a problem. They see him making shots and that's where the analysis of his game ends.
Almost every time Tyler shoots his jumper 2 to 3 ft inside the arc , usually on the left of the FT line .. it is automatic..
His shooting form , and release is almost always perfect and straight from what I have noticed..
I love that he has worked on it and augmented it into his arsenal..
Like I said, it is almost automatic..
"They want to be famous. We want to be champions. They want to be rappers and backup dancers. We want to play football." - T.J. Ward, Denver Broncos
On another note, I wish the trinity of Seth, Mackey, and Brush would nitpick Josh's weaknesses as in depth and as often as they do Tyler's. I know they like Josh's game better, and they don't like that Josh doesn't have the love that Tyler gets, but nonetheless, I wish there was more balance when it comes to nitpicking Josh (in frequency and complexity).
Quoting this post and giving me a once-and-only response about Josh's weaknesses is not what I mean, either.
I guess I just get tired of seeing Tyler dissected like yesterday's murder victim over and over again, while Josh (in comparison) gets a pass from them.
I know, I know, it comes back to 'too much' love for Tyler, and personal preferences, but that's not the point. It would make all of the Tyler talk a lot easier to take.
I would rather not cherry pick statistics.
That Roy has played worse with Tyler is pretty obvious to the eye test. It is confirmed by the stats.
That our team's offense is actually somewhat worse despite Tyler's very solid personal numbers is not as obvious but is also confirmed by simple stats.
"I had to take her down like Chris Brown."
I expect people to adjust to Tyler's game. Boston could do it quickly because they are so good defensively. It may take other teams a little while (probably the playoffs, we'll see it again.)
But I've said it before..in terms of Josh versus Tyler..I think Josh is more talented. Much more talented. But I think it's pretty obvious that I don't think that talent = amazing player...or even the player that works really hard.
I expect Tyler Hansbrough to be the best possible basketball player he can possibly be. And that's a talent in itself. Not everyone can have the focus and energy and ability to just go 110 percent at all times. And I know he'll do the same in the off season when he's working on his game.
Josh..I don't know. And I don't mean I don't know because I'm unsure..I mean I don't know because I really haven't gotten a read on him. I don't think he's at Tyler's level on that end of the spectrum..but I've seen..maybe..three or four players that are..still..he's talented..and his skills are unique that I can see where Seth and Mackey are coming from.
edit: Our offense was struggling a lot though, and then Tyler and PG were inserted..and it picked up again. So I think that particular stat is misleading.
Josh can have a game like he did in Boston the other night and nobody mentions it. You don't see these types of threads about anyone but Tyler. He's unquestionably the most popular Pacer and there are threads asking how he can please the fan base? It is illogical.
We've made statements why we prefer Josh to Tyler and then we are generally laughed at. We show simple stats which back up our reasonings then we are called negative, fanboys, or worse.
When I say our offense does not look better, despite Tyler's scoring, it just is altered, I am not being negative. I'm just saying what I see. When I say that our team scores fewer points per game starting Tyler I am not using some wild contrived and biased stat. It is just evidence.
Sure, I could just be a parrot in every thread and shout "NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY TO PLAY AGAINST TYLER HANSBROUGH!!!" or type "what a beast" all the time but I would rather take a more analytical approach.
The Pacers score 1.08 points per possession with McRoberts on the floor. They give up 1.05.
The Pacers score 1.05 points per possession with Tyler on the floor. They give up 1.08.
So maybe opponents should want to play against Tyler Hansbrough. They may end up more bruised but their win/loss record would be better. And that is the only stat that matters.
Last edited by BRushWithDeath; 03-25-2011 at 12:33 AM.
"I had to take her down like Chris Brown."