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Thread: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

  1. #26
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by dohman View Post
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    Yet I have friends that are die hard bulls fans that wish they had hibbert instead of noah.
    i have spoken with bulls fans, and they don't seem to like noah. they haven't embraced him. i don't understand it. maybe they hated him in college? but still i hated tyler in college, but now i am a huge fan. just because bulls fans want hibbert over noah, it doens't mean anything.

  2. #27

    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaas0532 View Post
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    i have spoken with bulls fans, and they don't seem to like noah. they haven't embraced him. i don't understand it. maybe they hated him in college? but still i hated tyler in college, but now i am a huge fan. just because bulls fans want hibbert over noah, it doens't mean anything.
    yeah, that is really stupid.

    noah can play. and seems to have a good view of his place in the scheme of things.

    maybe it's all that money for a guy that doesn't score. all i know is i would welcome him to the pacers today or tomorrow. the dude can ball.

  3. #28
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jackson shimmy View Post
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    Hibbert = Noah ?

    Not in my book. To a certain degree, I suppose it depends on the other
    4 players around them. But generally speaking, I'd take Noah any day
    of the week over Hibbert.
    Last year people were saying the same thing about Brook Lopez let Roy continue to develop and I have a feeling nobody will be saying this in another year or two.

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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    Last year people were saying the same thing about Brook Lopez let Roy continue to develop and I have a feeling nobody will be saying this in another year or two.
    Brooke Lopez is a soft center. Noah>>> Lopez if you want a center on a contending type team.

  5. #30
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Brooke Lopez is a soft center. Noah>>> Lopez if you want a center on a contending type team.
    Maybe I'm being a homer on the issue but I'd take Roy over Noah and not blink. Noah reminds me more of Hans more of a role player than someone like Roy who we try to run a big portion of our offense through if we can help it.

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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    Maybe I'm being a homer on the issue but I'd take Roy over Noah and not blink. Noah reminds me more of Hans more of a role player than someone like Roy who we try to run a big portion of our offense through if we can help it.
    I would take Noah easily he is a future defensive POY winner im my view. He also has a good post game plus he has become a good leader.

  7. #32
    Over the pond ballism's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    The thing I love most about Noah, besides the usual 11-11-2-2 (and improving) stat line, is that he can defend anyone from Howard to perimeter players. Granted, he won't be effective against Westbrooks of the NBA, but hey, noone can defend them anyway.
    And while his offense has a bad rep, it's far from bad; more like it's ugly looking and average.
    And Noah's leadership/mental abilities simply leave Hibbert in the dust. He's an opposite to Hibbert from mental point of view.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I would take Noah easily he is a future defensive POY winner im my view. He also has a good post game plus he has become a good leader.
    If this ever happens I owe you a free meal somewhere.

    I think Tyler could easily fill the same role that Noah provides the Bulls, technically he has about 3 more years of NBA experience then Hans and Hans as of late is already scoring better than he is. I don't think Tyler will ever be the shot blocking presence that Noah is just due to height but I think Tyler can grab just as many rebounds as Noah and is becoming a pretty strong presence on the team himself.

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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Last season, Noah was a near All-Star.

    I think with the injury this season, it's taken a toll on him. He personally has lost a lot of recognition with having to get back to playing at the level he was at last season.

    As it currently stands this season, I think he and Roy are pretty much neck-and-neck.

    Both with be top centers in the league.

  11. #35

    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    TheDon-

    I for one was never saying that about Lopez. I thought and think
    that he is overated.

  12. #36
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jackson shimmy View Post
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    TheDon-

    I for one was never saying that about Lopez. I thought and think
    that he is overated.
    Didn't say you were was just using it as a reference for people ooo'ing and aww'ing over Lopez last year instead of Roy. This year it's Noah.

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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Last season, Noah was a near All-Star.

    I think with the injury this season, it's taken a toll on him. He personally has lost a lot of recognition with having to get back to playing at the level he was at last season.

    As it currently stands this season, I think he and Roy are pretty much neck-and-neck.

    Both with be top centers in the league.
    Roy isnt on Noahs level. Noah was a lock for the all star game before the injury. If Hibbert becomes more stable then maybe he will get to that level but i doubt it. Even when Noah struggles his defense is top notch.

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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    If this ever happens I owe you a free meal somewhere.

    I think Tyler could easily fill the same role that Noah provides the Bulls, technically he has about 3 more years of NBA experience then Hans and Hans as of late is already scoring better than he is. I don't think Tyler will ever be the shot blocking presence that Noah is just due to height but I think Tyler can grab just as many rebounds as Noah and is becoming a pretty strong presence on the team himself.
    Thats one of Tylers weakness is rebounding. Noah is pure defense and rebounding and is just now devloping decent post skills. The only thing they have in common is they have high motors and lots of energy. Tyler is primarly an offense player. Noah is a defensive garbage man. Who gets his points the hard way.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 03-22-2011 at 07:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    I think Tyler can grab just as many rebounds as Noah.
    I'm as big a supporter of Hansbrough as anyone but if he ever averages 11 rebounds a game in an NBA season I'll eat my hat.

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  17. #40
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    I suggest taking the path of the Chicago Bulls:

    Stack up on top 10 picks for a decade and then get incredibly lucky and win the draft lottery one year after winning 49 games to select the best PG and perhaps the best PLAYER in the NBA.


    The Pacers have two former top 10 picks on their roster in Ford and Dunleavy, both of whom are busts NOT drafted by the Pacers and get little PT.

    The Bulls have three top 10 picks STARTING for them (Rose, Noah, Deng).
    Last edited by hoosierguy; 03-22-2011 at 10:01 PM.

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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    A prayer

  19. #42
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I like many of your suggestions/thoughts. The thing that is hard to ever figure out is what is needed.... as things change. I like the Celts model too, but if you change even one thing it probably doesn't work.

    For example, Garnett is a defensive backbone now, but he still has the pedigree of a league MVP (Can't remember if he ever really won it, but still). Pierce was a chucker before he had a good group around him, imo. Ray Allen was a big time scorer who has the selflessness and understanding to step back when needed.

    My point is that its a delicate balance of chemistry and ability.

    I think almost everything you say is arguably right, but if I had one theme to hang my hat on, its defense.

    It changes from highschool to college to pro. In Highschool its easy to find defenders willing to do the dirty work, in College I've been amazed watching teams defend in the Tourney so far. Watching Pro ball you don't have lock down defenders or rarely so.

    I'd argue you have to build almost the opposite as you would at the lower levels when you look at an NBA team.

    Rondo and Garnett are 1st team NBA caliber defenders. Perkins, imo, was maybe the best or at least one of the best low post defenders in the league, while in Boston.

    I'd also suggest you can find scorers readily in the NBA, as you've alluded to, not 20 point scorers, like you mentioned, but 10 -15 points a night guys grow on trees, I'd guess.

    With this said, I'd build around two or three elite defenders AND 1 stud clutch scorer.

    Tony Allen, to me, has put Memphis on the map as adding this elite defender for Memphis, Shane Battier did the same early on in Houston.

    Maybe Paul George is the start of finding an elite defender at the wing position.

    After the 1 stud clutch scorer you still need a Steve Kerr guy who can hit a knock down jumper, if needed. Or another words a role playing clutch scorer or scorers, but again, they don't need to be stars, just have that skill.

    Anyway, thats my take and much repeats what you already said.
    I completely agree. That's why it'd be so nice to get Tyson Chandler, although, again not very likely at all.

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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Thats one of Tylers weakness is rebounding. Noah is pure defense and rebounding and is just now devloping decent post skills. The only thing they have in common is they have high motors and lots of energy. Tyler is primarly an offense player. Noah is a defensive garbage man. Who gets his points the hard way.
    Tyler is not a weak rebounder. Did you see the offensive rebound he grabbed with 3:12 to go in the Bulls game? He outhustled everybody and then hit a huge jumper. Tyler doesn't get a lot of rebounds because he plays the high post and is 15 -18 ft away from the basket.

    Tyler is weak in ball handling & passing. That is why I would love to see more of him and Mc Roberts in the lineup. I believe Mc Roberts is top 5 in the league at his position in ball handling/passing.

  21. #44
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    Maturity, sense of urgency, motivation, a chip on their shoulder, and a killer instinct.

    In short, huevos.











    Except for Tyler.
    Last edited by MyFavMartin; 03-23-2011 at 09:14 AM.

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  23. #45

    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    When did this turn into the Hibbert vs Noah thread? They don't even play anything alike.

    So to the original question.

    It maybe a cop out but what the pacers need is time. Maybe Larry has another 3 year plan for us.

    One poster said we need 3 players to be as good as Granger to compete. I think that's about right as we aren't a likely landing spot for any top free agents. I hope George is one of the those players, he's certainly shown some flashes of talent in his rookie year. We need Roy to develop into a consistent post player. I feel Tyler could be a long term solution at the 4. So that kind of leaves Collison. I'd say give him the reins next season and see what he's got. He's too young to write off yet.

    For the summer... I see us making another run at Mayo and it will probably aggrevate many of us, but I don't see the pacers having a lot of action in free agency. I don't really want to give up any young players except for maybe Rush, he's not going to get you much.

    I hope Larry sticks around. We are about 3-4 years from being torward the top of the east if these players develop like I hope they do

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  25. #46
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    I think we really need a point guard who is about 6" taller than the point guards on the team, has good court vision and is a hard nosed defender. Doesn't need to be a great scorer.

    We need Tyler to get an offseason under his belt to work on his game and especially his help D.

    We need a coach to come in and create a winning atmosphere (I like Vogel, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure he's what we need).

    We need the upcoming CBA to lead to some new NBA regulations that help small market teams retain players and/or compete in free agency.

    While not necessary, I think we may have to make some big trades and hope we come out the winner either through obtaining draft picks that work out or players who pull a Jermaine O'Neal and begin to play to potential when they get here.

    And personally, I want Eric Gordon!
    Danger Zone

  26. #47
    The Nite Owl LA_Confidential's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers future, and what is needed to win a championship

    I think the best model to use is the same as the NFL. Build the best team to win your Division. Its fairly obvious going forward the Pacers will be in direct competition for Central Division Championships. Build a team that can compete with/beat the Bulls and then we will have a legitimate chance at winning a ring.

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