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Thread: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

  1. #26
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    While I still think there is little question as to his basketball IQ being seriously low, DC did make the smartest play I've seen him make all season tonight when he leaked out off that jump ball for the layup. Granger got credit for the pass during the broadcast, but DC was the one who made it happen.

    He makes an unbelievable amount of careless/boneheaded plays with the ball. He dribbles it off his foot, uncontested, at least what seems like a couple times a game.

    He's one of the most frustrating players to watch ever, but credit where credit is due, that probably was still one of his best games as a Pacer.
    Dribbling off his foot isn't a case of him having a low basketball IQ. It's a case of him needing to improve upon his basketball handling skills.

    No matter how long you repeat the mantra that DC has a low basketball IQ it still will never change the reality of who he is as a basketball player.

    Night in and night out DC shows he understands the game of basketball game well by attempting to run PnR's, find his big men in the post, and attempting to break down the defense and find open shooters/cutters. It doesn't matter how many mistakes he makes, that doesn't suddenly mean he has a low basketball IQ. That might mean he plays a little out of control, or maybe he plays careless... There could be a number of issues that cause him to make mistakes.

    I'd say he is like most point guards that have ever played the game in the last 50 years and that is they usually take longer than two years to turn into a solid starter. But that's just me.
    Last edited by mattie; 03-22-2011 at 12:24 AM.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by birdsandbats View Post
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    -Thank goodness we didn't draft Brook Lopez, man is he soft. 4 rebounds wtf
    Its the way that Avery johnson uses Brook.......last season, he averaged a double double. His scoring isup cuz he's supposed to focus on scoring and why Kris Humpheries pull down the bulk of the rebounds.
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by birdsandbats View Post
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    Hibbert played real well. Only improvement we need to make as a team is to get Hibbert the ball more easily (point guard's responsibility). When he gets it deep its almost always a dunk or a foul.

    Other thoughts:

    -Thank goodness we didn't draft Brook Lopez, man is he soft. 4 rebounds wtf

    -Sundiata Gaines is not a PG. I know he was hyped after the game winner last year against Lebron but it pisses me off when point guards never create anything for their team. Every one of his passes were like end of shotclock making his teammates shoot contested J's.
    Then what is Roy?

    Considering Roy had 0 rebounds last game against Memphis . Foul trouble or not, that's just bad.

    I'd still rather have Roy. He played a really nice game tonight. But I'm not sure Roy is any tougher than Lopez.

    Ok, well maybe a little bit. But not much
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    and Rush with less shots. Or more made shots if you believe in his offense...
    I prefer the latter. If Rush consistently shot 10 times a game he would most likely average no less than 10 ppg, and probably closer to 14. Yeah his shot has been off lately, but we all know he is normally an excellent shooter.

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    Then what is Roy?

    Considering Roy had 0 rebounds last game against Memphis . Foul trouble or not, that's just bad.

    I'd still rather have Roy. He played a really nice game tonight. But I'm not sure Roy is any tougher than Lopez.

    Ok, well maybe a little bit. But not much
    For the season Lopez is averaging 6.1 rpg in 35.3mpg. Roy is averaging 7.7rpg in 27.5mpg.

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    For the season Lopez is averaging 6.1 rpg in 35.3mpg. Roy is averaging 7.7rpg in 27.5mpg.
    That is one of the reasons why I had suggested pursuing Kris Humpheries in the offseason to fill Foster's role as backup PF/C. He can easily play next to Hansbrough and Hibbert to be that guy that does nothing else but pull down rebounds.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  11. #32
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    For the season Lopez is averaging 6.1 rpg in 35.3mpg. Roy is averaging 7.7rpg in 27.5mpg.
    Ehh, fair enough point.

    But that just makes Roy a better rebounder. It doesn't at all make him tougher.

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...DD=All%20Teams

    Those are the rebounds per 48 minutes. Roy is is in the top 25 in rebounds.

    But there's an awful lot of players below him in that top 50 that are far tougher.

    I guess the point is I'd still rather have Roy. And yes he's a better rebounder this season than Lopez.

    But whether or not he's tougher, that's up for debate. Rebounds don't necessarily prove toughness.


    Mind you, I still think Roy is much tougher than Lopez. I'd rather have Roy any day.
    Stop quoting people I have on ignore!

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    I think Roy is a better interior presence on defense than Lopez.

  13. #34
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    Whew 2 game lead on Bucks and Bobcats!

    Win at Charlotte would be HUGE. That would put us up 3 games, technically 4 if you count the tiebreaker, with 10 to play.
    Don't pay attention to the games behind column this time of year. We've played two more games than Milwaukee and Charlotte have, so that throws the games behind column off.

    THE STANDINGS
    Pacers....31-40
    Mil.........28-41
    Char.......28-41

    Effectively, one loss by us and we are all tied in the all important games loss column. So the loss column is where to look, and there we are only one game ahead.

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    So p***** about the 3 that was a 2, considering the injury I think the refs can use that time of break in the action to go review a questionable shot.


    I didn't hear the postgame stuff so maybe they admitted it, but I'm completely convinced that the DC runout on the jump ball was a designed play due to the timing. DC went as soon as the ball went up and Danny was looking as soon as he got the ball. (maybe Mackey and Aesop agree) To me that's either Vogel or DC/DG preplanning. Great freaking play, especially considering how Tyler punked the whiny Sasha to get the jump in the first place.


    Good to see Hibbert take advantage of Brook. Good to see Danny hitting some "Danny" types of jumpers in the 2nd half. Good to see Rush find the 3 at all finally.

    Darren had the assists. He wasn't great, certainly not at the level the assists would imply, but better.

    Here's the funny thing, all the people saying "hey Josh and Rush were nice tonight" and yet I'm the fanboy about to say the following....

    Josh and Rush WERE great until about the early 4th or so. At some point both of them started looking gassed. Rush stopped being able to keep up with Sasha V which included giving a foul to Josh as he came over to help. Josh also had a couple of tough plays down the stretch where he looked a bit tired. Morrow crushed that one rebound out of his hands from behind, for example.

    I get why Vogel wanted to go with them given the level of defense they were playing, like Rush closing out Sasha in the corner to annihilate his shot, but as the minutes piled up they both started losing a step.

    I actually thought Tyler and Paul were the go-to guys starting around 4-5 minutes left in the 4th. Tyler was able to make that jump ball play where I don't think Josh was showing that kind of energy by that point.


    What does kill me is that anyone doesn't think Josh is on par with Tyler in terms of overall talent. Tyler can "drive" the ball, but he doesn't have that below the waist dribble that Josh used to drive, stop and then flip in that one shot. When NJ trapped DC Josh was able to easily help break it. When Josh got snuck up on out top trying to get the ball to DC he put a nasty spin move into a dribble drive down the lane.

    And then even funnier to me is that Tyler come up with the "Josh line", ie less points, not a ton of shots, lots of boards, good +/- while Josh had the "Tyler line" going 6/7 but only 3 boards and a poor +/-.

    If that doesn't speak to how balanced they are I don't know what does. I love having them as a combo right now, that and wing are the areas I wouldn't worry about at all for now.



    Speaking of Tyler, it seemed odd but it was almost like with Roy rolling they backed off the high PnR with Tyler. He got the ball up top on some reversals, but that doesn't really give him space to shoot. Thus his low FGA and scoring in general. Matchup maybe?


    Humphries put a nasty spin on Tyler one time. Hopefully Tyler learns about showing your balance when you lean on guys in the post. If they feel it off balance or feel you getting flat footed they'll kill you.



    When I watch Lance all I see is a bunch of flashy bounce step dribbles with random shakes thrown in that all end up adding up to very little advantage on defenders. Plus he often doesn't seem to have anything in mind if he does get space, other than his own shot.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-22-2011 at 02:39 AM.

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  17. #36
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    DC did make the smartest play I've seen him make all season tonight when he leaked out off that jump ball for the layup. Granger got credit for the pass during the broadcast, but DC was the one who made it happen.
    I feel like I saw them talking right before the jump ball, perhaps planning out the play.


    The whole game I'm watching, wondering how the hell they score so many points in the fourth quarter. MA-CHINE!!!!!!
    You Got The Tony!!!!!!

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I prefer the latter. If Rush consistently shot 10 times a game he would most likely average no less than 10 ppg, and probably closer to 14. Yeah his shot has been off lately, but we all know he is normally an excellent shooter.
    Exactly. The kid has gone full seasons shooting 40% from 3, ie just as good as Reggie or Danny.

    He blocks shots on the perimeter and his rebound totals are built on mostly very legit in-traffic grabs where he fights off opponents to get them.

    When people stop waiting for him to be 20 ppg scoring machine they'll start to find out he's fine as a 20mpg 6-7th man type player. He's in a horrible slump lately, but his defense and rebounding have remained solid and he's attempted to have a balanced offense - driving and taking open 3s. He's just not making them.

    Considering the last month or so of Granger's shooting, I think Rush should get a little slack on this.



    Frankly if you put out a lineup next year of Rush, George, Josh/Tyler, Roy you are going to get a lot of defensive stops. Paul and Tyler are making awareness mistakes, but that should end with playing time. George tips enough passes to suggest the potential of Gerald Wallace in terms of steals/disruption.

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    A win is a win is a win. And any win is a good win.

    But I'm not gonna do any cartwheels over a win vs a team full of
    what are, sans the overated Lopez, essentially NBA backups.

  21. #39
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Dribbling off his foot isn't a case of him having a low basketball IQ. It's a case of him needing to improve upon his basketball handling skills.

    No matter how long you repeat the mantra that DC has a low basketball IQ it still will never change the reality of who he is as a basketball player.

    Night in and night out DC shows he understands the game of basketball game well by attempting to run PnR's, find his big men in the post, and attempting to break down the defense and find open shooters/cutters. It doesn't matter how many mistakes he makes, that doesn't suddenly mean he has a low basketball IQ. That might mean he plays a little out of control, or maybe he plays careless... There could be a number of issues that cause him to make mistakes.

    I'd say he is like most point guards that have ever played the game in the last 50 years and that is they usually take longer than two years to turn into a solid starter. But that's just me.
    I should have made the 2nd part of that post a whole new post apparently because the point missed the mark. I did not mean to imply that his lazy/poor ball handling has anything to do with his basketball IQ.

    He shows he understands the game by attempting to run pick and rolls? That is maybe the most elementary play you can possibly run. Last night he did a better job, but rarely does he do a good job finding big men in the post, he does an even worse job of driving and distributing. Night in and night out he does those things? I watch every night, and I don't see that.

    You can take the wait and see approach, that's fine. Maybe he will get better. But I'm basing my assessment off of what I've seen from him, and right now he looks like a shooting guard stuck in an extremely undersized point guard's body, with good athleticism but poor basketball IQ.

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    I feel like I saw them talking right before the jump ball, perhaps planning out the play.
    Like Seth mentioned, I considered that it perhaps was a set play off the jump ball. You have to figure Tyler is going to win that over Sasha, so if it was, it was well planned, and perfectly executed.

    Huge play when they needed it.

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    What I liked about the game was the Pacers defense to start the 3rd quarter - it was close to playoff caliber. Other than thatI thought the Pacers overall performance was average.

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    I think the difference in the game is that Danny Granger stepped up in the second half. He hit several big buckets when the game could have gone their direction.

    Danny's got clutch in him. It's nice that we've been able to see it a couple of times in the last week.
    .

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    ďPeople talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but heís really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.Ē óLarry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Danny's got clutch in him.
    He needs to engage it in the first half.
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  27. #43
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Part of the problem with pg's is that the bigs do not present themselves or position themselves well to get the pass. Last night I saw a little improvment with Roy. The pg
    through a much quicker pass to Roy to counter the double team. Slow lobs are a recipe for disaster.
    {o,o}
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    I thought DC played really well in the second half. He had a whole different energy about him. He made some really great plays, and his defense was actually better than usual.

    I have to ask though..does anyone know if DC is ADD? I mean that seriously. He just seems unfocused sometimes (Like when he dribbles the ball off his foot). One time they were huddled and DC was actually facing another direction and I think it was Danny that literally turned him around. He just seems to have a very "la la la" personality on the court.

    Lance..he wasn't good. But I don't know what anyone would have expected out of him. Shooting guard playing point, hasn't played in real minutes in a while, and the night before didn't expect to be playing. Not surprising.

    A huge problem, for all the PGs, is what I've been harping on. The offense gets REALLY stagnant because guys don't move. They literally just stand and look at the guy holding the ball, while Hibbert tries to post up. That's it. It's really hard for a point guard to try and run an offense, other than calling a PnR, with that.

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Lance..he wasn't good. But I don't know what anyone would have expected out of him. Shooting guard playing point, hasn't played in real minutes in a while, and the night before didn't expect to be playing. Not surprising.
    Yeah , I will second that

    I wonder if Lance has run set plays at any level. I think his problem is he was so good on the High school, College scene that he could beat most defenders off the dribble, so they let Lance create with the ball and make plays

    However, the type of ball played at the Ruckers tournament rarely works in the NBA. Somehow he need to know when to shake and bake , but keep the offense flowing
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Yeah , I will second that

    I wonder if Lance has run set plays at any level. I think his problem is he was so good on the High school, College scene that he could beat most defenders off the dribble, so they let Lance create with the ball and make plays

    However, the type of ball played at the Ruckers tournament rarely works in the NBA. Somehow he need to know when to shake and bake , but keep the offense flowing
    Here is my assessment of the game that I left on IndyCornrows. It includes what I thought of Lance.

    Wish Lance would have gotten more minutes, but Iím sure heíll take whatever he can. He did play a bit erratic and almost turned the ball over a couple of times when he drive to the lane, picked up his dribble and no one open.

    Lance did make several really good plays like finding some teammates wide open, Tyler along the baseline and Rush for a 3, but both shots were missed. I mean wide open looks, which is not Lance's fault those shots didn't go in.

    Iím happy he was looking for teammates instead of getting his shot. He only shot the ball twice and got to the line for one of them. Thatís more than I can say about AJ. In 7 minutes of play AJ would have shot the ball at least 5 times.

    PG is looking more and more comfortable on the court as a starter. His shots are down since heís the last option within the starting unit. Thatís ok, cause heís been playing solid defense.

    Liked to see Rush be active and most of his shots were within the offense, his shots just werenít falling for the most part tonight. He needs to do a better job cause he missed quite a few wide open shots. Gotta hit those in the NBA. His drive to the basket and turnover made me cringe. A guy his size should be able to handle the rock, but heís pretty atrocious when dribblingÖI think Hibbert could dribble better.

    Hibbert was fantastic on the offensive side tonight. It does wonders when teammates are able to get him the ball deep in the post. He was almost automatic tonight. Got blocked a few times since he doesnít have much lift. He needs to do a better job of using his size. He had a fantastic dunk under the basket when I was sure heíd try to lay it up. Needs to do that more often. He always seems to go up softly when in dunking distance from the basket. Take it hard big fella, if you miss youíll at least more than likely be fouled.

    TOs kept the other team in it. The Nets just plain suck without Williams. I donít know how they plan to keep Deron with that team. This should have been an easy victory, but we made it harder than it should. Most of the TOs continue to be just mental lapses that shouldnít happen. I truly believe the Pacers can make some serious noise, but they have to take better care of the basketball. They basically give the game away by turning the ball over.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    And I hate that our PGs just dribble the ball around till the end of the shot clock and everyone just stands around and it's hard to get a good look that way. Lots of contested shots and it also leads to our many shot clock violations.

    Too many isos for players while everyone else just stands and watches. I saw way too many isos for D Jones, that was not fun to watch at all!

    Is it too much to ask for to move the ball around?
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Here is my assessment of the game that I left on IndyCornrows. It includes what I thought of Lance.

    Wish Lance would have gotten more minutes, but Iím sure heíll take whatever he can. He did play a bit erratic and almost turned the ball over a couple of times when he drive to the lane, picked up his dribble and no one open.

    Lance did make several really good plays like finding some teammates wide open, Tyler along the baseline and Rush for a 3, but both shots were missed. I mean wide open looks, which is not Lance's fault those shots didn't go in.

    Iím happy he was looking for teammates instead of getting his shot. He only shot the ball twice and got to the line for one of them. Thatís more than I can say about AJ. In 7 minutes of play AJ would have shot the ball at least 5 times.
    Good points, i do think that Lance has the talent to be the past passer for a guard position, by far , on the team
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Good points, i do think that Lance has the talent to be the past passer for a guard position, by far , on the team
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    Default Re: Pacers/NJ postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    That is one of the reasons why I had suggested pursuing Kris Humpheries in the offseason to fill Foster's role as backup PF/C. He can easily play next to Hansbrough and Hibbert to be that guy that does nothing else but pull down rebounds.
    And then instead of Jwoww courtside, we'd have Kim Kardashian.

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