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Thread: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    This article certainly isn't the whole story or even the majority of the story, but I think it is worth reading and making note. The chart is probably easier to read of you click on the link

    http://www.sportsmediawatch.net/2011...bers-game.html

    With so much talk about how big market NBA teams have a better chance of winning than their small-market counterparts, here's a quick look at some misconceptions about market size in the NBA.

    Of the 29 U.S.-based NBA teams, 22 play in one of the nation's top 25 television markets. Considering that there are 210 Nielsen-designated television markets in the United States, an argument can be made that there are zero small market NBA teams. The league's smallest TV market, New Orleans, is 52nd.

    That being said, some NBA markets are certainly smaller than others. Take as an example Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, the nation's #16 market. With its 1.581 million TV homes, Miami is nowhere close to New York (#1, 7.515M), Los Angeles (#2, 5.667M) or Chicago (#3, 3.503M). It is, however, barely ahead of Cleveland (#18, 1.526M), Orlando (#19, 1.453M), and Sacramento (#20, 1.409M).

    In fact, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and company play in a smaller market than the Timberwolves (#15 Minneapolis has 1.754 million homes) and Pistons (#11 market Detroit has 1.884 million).

    Of course, it was James, Wade and Chris Bosh who began the latest 'sky is falling' storyline in the NBA, that of superstar players leaving their beleaguered small market teams for big market bullies.

    That certainly wasn't the case for James, who moved from Cleveland to a city with fewer than 100,000 additional TV homes. However, with Amar'e Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer, Carmelo Anthony and Deron Williams all leaving smaller market teams for one of the nation's top three markets, the fear is that the league's talent will concentrate in just a few select big cities.

    But a look at the current standings indicates that those fears are premature and unfounded at best. The teams in the five largest NBA markets (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Dallas) have a combined winning percentage of .557. By comparison, the league's five smallest markets (Milwaukee, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Memphis and New Orleans) have a combined winning percentage of .591.

    Another misconception is that there is a significant difference between a 'big' market and a 'small' market. As Kenny Smith told SMW earlier Thursday, there are "only three or four really big markets" (sportsmediawatch.net, 3/10/11).

    The gap between the number of TV homes in #1 market New York and #5 market Dallas-Ft. Worth is 187% -- virtually equaling the 188% gap between the number of homes in Dallas and #35 market Milwaukee. In other words, the markets are much more concentrated outside of the top five. Certainly, while New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Philadelphia are massive television markets, once you get past those four, the differences are not nearly as great.
    List of NBA Teams and Regular Season Records by Market Size






















































































































































































































    # Market # of TV Homes Teams Record (as of Mar. 9)
    1

    New York 7.515M

    Knicks 34-29

    Nets 20-43

    2

    Los Angeles 5.667M

    Lakers 46-19

    Clippers 25-40

    3

    Chicago 3.503M

    Bulls 45-18

    4

    Philadelphia 3.016M

    Sixers 33-31

    5

    Dallas-Ft. Worth 2.595M

    Mavericks 46-18

    6

    SF/Oak/SJ 2.524M

    Warriors 28-36

    7

    Boston 2.460M

    Celtics 46-18

    8

    Atlanta 2.407M

    Hawks 37-27

    9

    Washington, DC 2.390M

    Wizards 16-47

    10

    Houston 2.177M

    Rockets 33-33

    11

    Detroit 1.884M

    Pistons 23-42

    12

    Phoenix 1.881M

    Suns 33-29

    15

    Minneapolis-St. Paul 1.754M

    Timberwolves 16-50

    16

    Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1.581M

    Heat 43-21

    17

    Denver 1.573M

    Nuggets 37-27

    18

    Cleveland-Akron 1.526M

    Cavaliers 12-52

    19

    Orlando-Daytona 1.453M

    Magic 41-24

    20

    Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto 1.409M

    Kings 15-47

    22

    Portland 1.198M

    Trail Blazers 37-27

    23

    Charlotte 1.166M

    Bobcats 26-38

    27

    Indianapolis 1.106M

    Pacers 27-37

    32

    Salt Lake City 954K

    Jazz 34-31

    35

    Milwaukee 901K

    Bucks 25-38

    37

    San Antonio 845K

    Spurs 52-12

    45

    Oklahoma City 705K

    Thunder 40-23

    48

    Memphis 694K

    Grizzlies 36-30

    52

    New Orleans 636K

    Hornets 38-29


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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Be sure to have this ready at the airport when free agents visit.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Meh. This article kind of misses the point.

    Indiana has a problem because its a small market and because its Indiana.

    Miami and Orlando have nice weather and no tax. Free agents will come.

    The teams in the five largest NBA markets (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Dallas) have a combined winning percentage of .557.
    A stat weighed down mostly by the Nets and the Clippers who have to share a media market with more established teams. Remove those two, and you get .617. Add Boston, which is always undercounted because of the structure of that area, and you get almost .650.

    Another misconception is that there is a significant difference between a 'big' market and a 'small' market. As Kenny Smith told SMW earlier Thursday, there are "only three or four really big markets" (sportsmediawatch.net, 3/10/11).

    The gap between the number of TV homes in #1 market New York and #5 market Dallas-Ft. Worth is 187% -- virtually equaling the 188% gap between the number of homes in Dallas and #35 market Milwaukee. In other words, the markets are much more concentrated outside of the top five. Certainly, while New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Philadelphia are massive television markets, once you get past those four, the differences are not nearly as great.
    How is this invalidating Kenny's point? Clearly there's a huge difference between the top and the rest.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    This is a poor article. The real issue to me is the fact that star players are dictating who gets to be competitive and who doesn't. I don't care if 3 superstars want to team up together in NY, Miami, or New Orleans it's not right. We need a system that discourages this type of collusion with serious financial penalties for the 2cd. and 3rd. all star to the point that they wouldn't want to team up together for financial reasons alone. It's a very real problem that needs addressed in the new cba.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    List of High Profile Free Agents the Pacers offered (or could have offered) high dollar contracts to but were refused for ANY reason...



    (crickets)


    There are literally NO FAs that were EVER targets for the Pacers to sign because the Pacers have NEVER kept cap space.

    Why?

    Oh, it had some stupid thing to do with HIGH PROFILE FAs RESIGNING WITH THE PACERS. These are dudes like Reggie "From LA" Miller who not only visited Indy but freaking moved here and still thought "I could escape, but I like this situation just fine".

    How is that possible?

    Because the article is right.


    For example, Minnepolis is HQ to many top companies, perhaps one of the highest concentrations of Fortune 500 HQs in the US. Don't they realize that all that brain power, exec power, and general talent is just going to move away and work for the companies with HQ in Santa Barbara or Miami?

    What, NBA players are the only people who like the beach or like the big city or like zero state income tax?


    No, people like to work for market value pay in quality work environments. You want to work with other quality people on a daily basis and you want the leadership to be competent and taking the company in the right direction.


    Good coach, good GM, good ownership - you can have a great team. Period. It's ALWAYS been that way. It's far easier to associate W-L records with GMs, coaches and even owners than it is with the cities themselves.



    CHICAGO - huge market, tons of cap space, FAILS TO GET DUNCAN OR GRANT HILL. Why would a FA refuse to take a big paycheck in an elite city? Why did the "sign Hill and Duncan for insta-rebuild" fail? Didn't Duncan want to upgrade his profile as a star in Chicago rather than forgotten-about San Antonio?


    When a smaller market looses a guy everyone says "see, proof". When a big market gets a guy everyone says "see, proof". And when the opposite happens just as often no one pays any attention.

    Detroit landed the 2 biggest FAs in their class a few years ago. Detroit. Have you been to the wonderland that is the Detroit economy and weather lately? You think Indy has image issues, sheesh.

    It easily could have been New York going after Gordan and Charlie V, and after it flopped there no one would recall this as a sign that NY failed. They'd say "yes, but they did get those guys to sign there, they were just the wrong guys."

    Fine, but then that's true for Detroit as well. Guys did sign there, and it has exactly the same advantages Indy has (ie, none).

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Big markets get more money to throw around and more easily attract FA. That's an undisputable fact. Of course it doesn't directly translate to success, but it gives them a huge advantage. It's not our fault some of them have/had completely incompetent GMs.

    And it's pretty dumb when these type of articles define 'big market' and 'small market' literally. Can't just look at the size, it also has to do with wealth of the fans and the owners.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Tell me this, Seth: In any given free agency period, if the Pacers and another franchise have similar if not equal money, and similar if not equal talent, why would a free agent choose Indiana?

    Secondly, if the other team with similar or equal money & talent is New York, Los Angeles, or Miami, (speaking only as a destination, not the current teams with LeBron et al) why would they choose Indiana?

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    General question to all:

    Can we work on assembling a bullet list of the factors that go into a free agent deciding where to sign?

    Off the top of my head, I think of:

    * Money
    * The amount of winning the team would expect to have
    * Like-ability of players already on the team (from the FA's POV)
    * Misc. attractions (from their POV) of the specific location
    * Weather
    * Culture
    * Family in the area (wanting to be near them, or perhaps wanting to be away)
    * What the immediate family wants (wife, children, other relatives that stay with them)

    And also important: Remembering that the ranking of the above will vary depending on the individual, as will the weight of any given bulleted item. This applies both to their personalities in general, and then you have some people who change as they get older and become open to situations they would not have been while they were younger.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    I only see 1 team ranked below #11 who has won a title in the last 30 years - the Spurs.

    I think the "media" market and the number of people in the city are actually different once you get outside of NY/LA. Do you really think there is more media exposure in Miami or Minnesota?

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Tell me this, Seth: In any given free agency period, if the Pacers and another franchise have similar if not equal money, and similar if not equal talent, why would a free agent choose Indiana?


    Secondly, if the other team with similar or equal money & talent is New York, Los Angeles, or Miami, (speaking only as a destination, not the current teams with LeBron et al) why would they choose Indiana?
    Situations like playing time & utilization come directly to mind.

    Really, has there ever been a FA that we backed up the Brinks truck up for that flat out turned down our money? We've always been in a cap situation that hasn't allowed us to make such an offer.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    I only see 1 team ranked below #11 who has won a title in the last 30 years - the Spurs.

    I think the "media" market and the number of people in the city are actually different once you get outside of NY/LA. Do you really think there is more media exposure in Miami or Minnesota?
    I can see that considering that Houston, TX is the 4th largest U.S. city, but 10th as far as media markets go.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    General question to all:

    Can we work on assembling a bullet list of the factors that go into a free agent deciding where to sign?

    Off the top of my head, I think of:

    * Money
    * The amount of winning the team would expect to have
    * Like-ability of players already on the team (from the FA's POV)
    * Misc. attractions (from their POV) of the specific location
    * Weather
    * Culture
    * Family in the area (wanting to be near them, or perhaps wanting to be away)
    * What the immediate family wants (wife, children, other relatives that stay with them)

    And also important: Remembering that the ranking of the above will vary depending on the individual, as will the weight of any given bulleted item. This applies both to their personalities in general, and then you have some people who change as they get older and become open to situations they would not have been while they were younger.
    I can't believe you didn't mention THE COACH....

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    There are two problems with how this article judges a teams media market. First a teams media market is typically a lot bigger than the cities media market. You can't only count Indy for the Pacers you also have to count Ft. Wayne. Secondly it only takes into consideration households with TVs, not people. Merchandising profit is huge in sports, and for a team like the Pacers probably bigger than TV.

    If you take into consideration of those then the gap only gets bigger. Suddenly Denver goes from only being about 500,000 larger than Indy to 2 or 3 times larger than Indy.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Detroit landed the 2 biggest FAs in their class a few years ago. Detroit. Have you been to the wonderland that is the Detroit economy and weather lately? You think Indy has image issues, sheesh.

    Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon....it terrifies me that the Pacers might blow their cap space that we've waited 3 years to attain on players like that. Nobody was more happier than me when the Pistons blew their cap space on those players. I just hope Bird doesn't cave in to the pressure of the perceived notion the media puts out that you have cap space and you have to spend it all in one fell swoop. You see it every year when people like ESPN and others put out those articles grading the draft and moves made in the off-season and they always put up a big stink when people "Do Nothing". Which the casual fan reads and just see's it as we have an incompetent GM, you pretty much never see in those kind of reports "Wow there was crap crap and more crap to be had I would have set on my money too!"
    Last edited by TheDon; 03-21-2011 at 03:04 PM.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Situations like playing time & utilization come directly to mind.

    Really, has there ever been a FA that we backed up the Brinks truck up for that flat out turned down our money? We've always been in a cap situation that hasn't allowed us to make such an offer.
    I'm not basing my opinion on a past free agent because as Seth has pointed out, there really isn't one. I understand that point.

    I'm just cynical that most free agents would ever want to come to Indiana unless they're obviously the most attractive destination. And this summer, I doubt we are.

    And I don't mean Dahntay Jones level players, I mean 'high end' players.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    When people talk about big market pull, they generally mean top tier guys like Shaqs (in his time), LeBrons, Melos, etc. Not Ben Gordons and Charlie Vilaneuvas who can't afford to be picky.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Pretty sure theres a million extra people in Palm Beach County that isn't considered Miami/Ft. Lauderdale metro area, but is only an hour from the arena. And one of the richest counties in the country.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    I mean, there is zero empty space between here and Miami. It's completely developed.

    Population, Palm Beach County, FL
    1,265,293 - Jul 2008

    Population, Broward County, FL
    1,751,234

    Population, Dade County, FL
    1,908,921

    4,925,448 people within 1hr.

    vs... Population, Indiana
    6,423,113 - Jul 2009

    For the entire state.

    Last edited by cgg; 03-21-2011 at 06:02 PM.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Detroit landed the 2 biggest FAs in their class a few years ago. Detroit. Have you been to the wonderland that is the Detroit economy and weather lately? You think Indy has image issues, sheesh.
    Carlos Boozer is not exactly chopped liver as a free agent and is much better than Charley V. or Ben. Hell Chicago didn't want Ben and in retrospect rightly so.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    It's not only FA. It's guys like Kobe and Melo asking to be traded to these teams as well. There's just certain advantages to being in a big market. Ceteris paribus, it's just better to be in a big market.

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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    This article not only fails to dispel the "myth," but in a roundabout way actually supports it.

  32. #22
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    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    If you click on the link you'll notice the website is a sports TV ratings site. It is not an opinion site or business journal site. I look at is almost daily to see what the TV ratings are for sporting events.

  33. #23

    Default Re: The myth that big market teams are dominating the NBA

    Look at the glamour spots more so then the number of people living there. When do you think you will see a tv show called "CSI Minneapolis?"

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