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Thread: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

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    Default Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"



    March 16, 2011, 1:47 pm Grant Hill’s Response to Jalen Rose

    Associated Press Grant Hill currently plays for the Phoenix Suns.
    “The Fab Five,” an ESPN film about the Michigan basketball careers of Jalen Rose, Juwan Howard, Chris Webber, Jimmy King and Ray Jackson from 1991 to 1993, was broadcast for the first time Sunday night. In the show, Rose, the show’s executive producer, stated that Duke recruited only black players he considered to be “Uncle Toms.” Grant Hill, a player on the Duke team that beat Michigan in the 1992 Final Four, reflected on Rose’s comments.
    I am a fan, friend and longtime competitor of the Fab Five. I have competed against Jalen Rose and Chris Webber since the age of 13. At Michigan, the Fab Five represented a cultural phenomenon that impacted the country in a permanent and positive way. The very idea of the Fab Five elicited pride and promise in much the same way the Georgetown teams did in the mid-1980s when I was in high school and idolized them. Their journey from youthful icons to successful men today is a road map for so many young, black men (and women) who saw their journey through the powerful documentary, “The Fab Five.”
    It was a sad and somewhat pathetic turn of events, therefore, to see friends narrating this interesting documentary about their moment in time and calling me a ***** and worse, calling all black players at Duke “Uncle Toms” and, to some degree, disparaging my parents for their education, work ethic and commitment to each other and to me. I should have guessed there was something regrettable in the documentary when I received a Twitter apology from Jalen before its premiere. I am aware Jalen has gone to some length to explain his remarks about my family in numerous interviews, so I believe he has some admiration for them.
    In his garbled but sweeping comment that Duke recruits only “black players that were ‘Uncle Toms,’ ” Jalen seems to change the usual meaning of those very vitriolic words into his own meaning, i.e., blacks from two-parent, middle-class families. He leaves us all guessing exactly what he believes today.
    I am beyond fortunate to have two parents who are still working well into their 60s. They received great educations and use them every day. My parents taught me a personal ethic I try to live by and pass on to my children.

    I come from a strong legacy of black Americans. My namesake, Henry Hill, my father’s father, was a day laborer in Baltimore. He could not read or write until he was taught to do so by my grandmother. His first present to my dad was a set of encyclopedias, which I now have. He wanted his only child, my father, to have a good education, so he made numerous sacrifices to see that he got an education, including attending Yale.
    This is part of our great tradition as black Americans. We aspire for the best or better for our children and work hard to make that happen for them. Jalen’s mother is part of our great black tradition and made the same sacrifices for him.
    My teammates at Duke — all of them, black and white — were a band of brothers who came together to play at the highest level for the best coach in basketball. I know most of the black players who preceded and followed me at Duke. They all contribute to our tradition of excellence on the court.
    It is insulting and ignorant to suggest that men like Johnny Dawkins (coach at Stanford), Tommy Amaker (coach at Harvard), Billy King (general manager of the Nets), Tony Lang (coach of the Mitsubishi Diamond Dolphins in Japan), Thomas Hill (small-business owner in Texas), Jeff Capel (former coach at Oklahoma and Virginia Commonwealth), Kenny Blakeney (assistant coach at Harvard), Jay Williams (ESPN analyst), Shane Battier (Memphis Grizzlies) and Chris Duhon (Orlando Magic) ever sold out their race.
    To hint that those who grew up in a household with a mother and father are somehow less black than those who did not is beyond ridiculous. All of us are extremely proud of the current Duke team, especially Nolan Smith. He was raised by his mother, plays in memory of his late father and carries himself with the pride and confidence that they instilled in him.
    The sacrifice, the effort, the education and the friendships I experienced in my four years are cherished. The many Duke graduates I have met around the world are also my “family,” and they are a special group of people. A good education is a privilege.
    Just as Jalen has founded a charter school in Michigan, we are expected to use our education to help others, to improve life for those who need our assistance and to use the excellent education we have received to better the world.
    A highlight of my time at Duke was getting to know the great John Hope Franklin, James B. Duke Professor of History and the leading scholar of the last century on the total history of African-Americans in this country. His insights and perspectives contributed significantly to my overall development and helped me understand myself, my forefathers and my place in the world.
    Ad ingenium faciendum, toward the building of character, is a phrase I recently heard. To me, it is the essence of an educational experience. Struggling, succeeding, trying again and having fun within a nurturing but competitive environment built character in all of us, including every black graduate of Duke.
    My mother always says, “You can live without Chaucer and you can live without calculus, but you cannot make it in the wide, wide world without common sense.” As we get older, we understand the importance of these words. Adulthood is nothing but a series of choices: you can say yes or no, but you cannot avoid saying one or the other. In the end, those who are successful are those who adjust and adapt to the decisions they have made and make the best of them.
    I caution my fabulous five friends to avoid stereotyping me and others they do not know in much the same way so many people stereotyped them back then for their appearance and swagger. I wish for you the restoration of the bond that made you friends, brothers and icons.
    I am proud of my family. I am proud of my Duke championships and all my Duke teammates. And, I am proud I never lost a game against the Fab Five.
    Grant Henry Hill
    Phoenix Suns
    Duke ‘94


    http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/201...se/?ref=sports

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    the Times version is edited for brevity. At his own web site Grant Hill has posted the full, unedited response.

    http://granthill.com/hilltop/hilltop...es-documentary

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Hill
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    And, I am proud I never lost a game against the Fab Five.
    Niiiiiiiiiiiice.

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    Member MTM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    I always enjoy when intelligence trumps and outshines arrogant ignorance. I never liked Jalen as a Pacer, and it is embarrassing that he is associated with this story.

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  7. #5

    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    countdown to KStat showing up to defend the poor misunderstood Jalen Rose, who some are picking on for no good reason (his opinion)

    5...
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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    kstat may defend jalen since grant hill abruptly left his beloved pistons. thats my theory.
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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Jalen is great, very articulate and told the story how he saw it.

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    Looking like a season JB24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    countdown to KStat showing up to defend the poor misunderstood Jalen Rose, who some are picking on for no good reason (his opinion)

    5...
    4...
    3...
    2...
    1...
    well, they are. He didn't articulate it the best way but i'm shocked at the attention his comments have gotten. Pretty clear to me that it was a detailed and powerful statement on his thinking at the time.

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    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by MTM View Post
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    I always enjoy when intelligence trumps and outshines arrogant ignorance. I never liked Jalen as a Pacer, and it is embarrassing that he is associated with this story.
    agreed. i haven't seen the whole documentary but the part i have seen was just sad for those jealous guys. they call people ***** while they are the real *****es.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    They were saying how they felt when they were 18 and 19 years old. Give me a break.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by JB24 View Post
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    I'm shocked at the attention his comments have gotten.
    Jalen wasn't shocked at all, which is why he apologized to Grant Hill in ADVANCE of the telecast. Any argument that this was an unexpected media-driven controversy is not accurate.

    As Grant Hill put it, perfectly: "He leaves us all guessing exactly what he believes today."

    Sure Jalen was discussing what he felt at the time, but the logical next thing for Jalen to say would very obviously be "But in these 20 years I've grown up, and I now know that I was wrong". Simple as that, if that is how he feels, 5 more seconds in a program he produced.

    But...for all we know, how he felt then is exactly how he still feels today.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 03-17-2011 at 05:38 PM.

  16. #12

    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    They were saying how they felt when they were 18 and 19 years old. Give me a break.
    The fact that he apologized means he knew he offended people. No one holds him accountable for what he felt at 18 or 19, just what he feels now.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    J

    As Grant Hill put it, perfectly: "He leaves us all guessing exactly what he believes today."

    But...for all we know, how he felt then is exactly how he still feels today.
    Uh...no he doesn't.

    I expect this kind of comment from someone like you, but you would think Grant Hill ,with his Duke upper-class education and all, would not be one to jump to conclusions. Oh well.

    Frankly, Grant Hill and Bobby Hurley getting so snippy at age 38 over what Jalen Rose admitted he though at eighteen says a lot more about their maturity than Jalen's.

    http://www.freep.com/article/2011031...t-respect-Duke


    Jalen Rose now has 'great respect' for Duke
    11:17 AM, Mar. 17, 2011 |
    33 Comments
    Piston Grant Hill, right, gets by former Fab Fiver Jalen Rose for a driving lay-up at the Palace of Auburn Hills on Feb. 7, 1999. The Pistons beat the Pacers, 107-98.
    Piston Grant Hill, right, gets by former Fab Fiver Jalen Rose for a driving lay-up at the Palace of Auburn Hills on Feb. 7, 1999. The Pistons beat the Pacers, 107-98. / JULIAN H. GONZALEZ / DFP

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    BY MICHAEL MCCARTHY
    USA TODAY

    * Filed Under
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    * Michigan Wolverines

    ESPN's Jalen Rose wants to end the war of words between the Michigan Fab Five and Grant Hill and his former Duke Blue Devils over the harsh comments made in his ESPN Films documentary, “The Fab Five.”
    The ESPN basketball analyst was supposed to do a phone interview from Bristol, Conn., with Game On’s Michael McCarthy on Wednesday about his documentary, which became ESPN Films' highest-rated ever, beating all of the “30 for 30” films.

    Rose missed the interview, but he left a long voicemail Wednesday night in which he clarified his comments from the documentary and responded to Hill's Wednesday column in the New York Times in which the Phoenix Suns star and former Detroit Piston fired back at Rose and Fab Five teammate Jimmy King.

    First, says Rose, his comments about Duke preferring to recruit "Uncle Tom” African-American athletes were said from his former perspective as a high school athlete; not as a 38-year-old man. He's irritated that one comment is overshadowing the rest of the documentary.

    "I know a lot of people are trying to circumvent a great documentary that was two hours of quality content and paraphrase a statement that I made and look at the headline but not read the story. That's basically when I talked about my recruiting as a high school student, as it related to Duke. I just want to make sure I verify how I felt about that. I was clearly talking about a framework from 1991-93, not about 2011."

    As an adult, he says he has a "broader perspective of great respect and appreciation for Duke, their players and all they've achieved. The comments I made during the 'Fab Five' documentary were clearly reflecting my thoughts as a teenager. I'm proud of the documentary and its success, as well as our accomplishments at the University of Michigan, as well as the work I'm currently doing to support the city of Detroit."


    Previously, former Duke point guard Bobby Hurley told Dan Patrick that Rose would have been a benchwarmer for Duke. Both Hill and Hurley reminded Rose that their Blue Devils teams, which won repeat titles in 1991-1992, were 3-0 against the Fab Five.
    Last edited by Kstat; 03-17-2011 at 06:22 PM.

  18. #14

    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    He had two hours to say it and didn't, but it's nice that he polished it up after the fact.

    He likely enjoys the extra attention he gathered from the [intentional?] omission in the show

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Right. Jalen was devious like that.

    Well, either that, or he just didn't expect a Duke graduate to not be intelligent enough to connect the dots. That seems to be a common problem, given that it also went over Hurley's head as well.

    Grant can reach Jalen anytime he wants to and ask him personally if he was that unsure about it. He chose to write the New York times and get defensive. Maybe the comment his a deeper nerve than he realized?

    Jalen actually comes off classier than Grant in this fiasco.
    Last edited by Kstat; 03-17-2011 at 06:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    I thought it was abundantly clear watching the documentary that Jalen was voicing his thoughts of Duke while he was a Freshman, not his current thoughts.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    I thought it was abundantly clear watching the documentary that Jalen was voicing his thoughts of Duke while he was a Freshman, not his current thoughts.
    You, and just about everyone else that wasn't looking for an excuse to get offended.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    He had two hours to say it and didn't, but it's nice that he polished it up after the fact.

    He likely enjoys the extra attention he gathered from the [intentional?] omission in the show
    The documentary wasn't about today, it was about 91-93. Quite frankly I think if he and the others would have gone on saying how they all think Duke is great and all now it would have taken away from the documentary.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    it's pretty clear the only people who took his comments out of context were people who had bias against the fab five to begin with. Most people were smart enough to put it in the right context.

    If you take Jalen's thoughts now, and compare it with Hurley and Hill's thoughts now, Jalen comes off as the far classier and more mature human being.
    Last edited by Kstat; 03-17-2011 at 06:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Well, either that, or he just didn't expect a Duke graduate to not be intelligent enough to connect the dots.
    I would expect even Michigan graduates (or were Jalen and Jimmy just Michigan attendees?) to each realize that when he throws out very offensive, hurtful, and inflammatory labels like "Uncle Tom" and "Bit*h" that he must make it crystal clear that his perspective has changed. It was certainly not crystal clear in the show, or else there would be no controversy at all. Jalen also felt it was not crystal clear in the show, or else why would he apologize in advance to Grant?

    If some public figure were (as an example) talking about how as a youth he believed that the Holocaust did not happen, told examples about WHY he had believed it hadn't happened, I would expect sometime in the immediately following discussion he would very clearly disavow those offensive beliefs rather than leave it to the viewer to decide. I'm not equating falsely calling someone an Uncle Tom to being an anti-Semite, it's merely an analogy showing a clearly offensive viewpoint. As a prominent black columnist put it, the words "Uncle Tom" are "the worst two words one black man can direct at another" http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...bLS_story.html

    Is that crystal clear?
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 03-17-2011 at 07:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Don't we already have a thread dedicated to this?

    BTW, that is a rhetorical question as I know we do.


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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by CircleCity3318 View Post
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    Jalen is great, very articulate and told the story how he saw it.
    i didn't see the documentary but i think there is certainly something to be said for this point.
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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Jalen comes off as the far classier and more mature human being.
    Thanks for the laugh! Gotta wipe the diet coke off my screen. Grant Hill is nothing but maturity and class.

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  31. #24
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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Thanks for the laugh! Gotta wipe the diet coke off my screen. Grant Hill is nothing but maturity and class.
    If he was about Maturity and Class, he would've found a way to call Jalen and have a discussion with him, not go and act like a pissed off high school girl and write a blog that deliberately threw Jalen under the bus.

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    Default Re: Interesting article about Jalen Rose and "Dukies"

    Grant Hill went to my high school and I have met him, and besides him being a bit standofish (he was on crutches and being harassed by high school kids all night) I really thought he was a stand up guy.

    That said, he probably should have called to clear this up.

    That said, I think it was obvious that there was at least a little confusion, and even Jalen saw that or he would not have clarified (and I doubt he hates the publicity this is getting either, he is a producer for this after all isn't he?)

    That said, all Grant Hill had to say was 3-0.

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