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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Somebody Finally Gets It

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  • #1

    Somebody Finally Gets It

    State of the Pacers
    NBA teams should be forewarned: Indiana is angry and talented
    Posted: Monday September 27, 2004 3:22PM; Updated: Monday September 27, 2004 3:22PM





    Indiana
    Pacers

    Reigning Defensive Player of the Year Ron Artest is a player few opposing scorers have been able to solve.
    Ezra Shaw/Getty Images
    Pacers At A Glance
    Head coach -- Rick Carlisle
    2003-04 Season -- Record: 61-21 | Stats

    Key Additions
    SF Stephen Jackson (Hawks)
    C David Harrison (draft)

    Key Losses
    SF Al Harrington (Hawks)
    PG Kenny Anderson (Pacers)

    Projected Lineup
    Starters Reserves
    PG J. Tinsley A. Johnson
    SG R. Miller S. Jackson
    SF R. Artest J. Bender
    PF J. O'Neal A. Croshere
    C J. Foster S. Pollard





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    We might as well be blunt about it: The Indiana Pacers missed a golden opportunity in 2003-04. They should have knocked off the Detroit Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals, and they would have destroyed the Lakers in the Finals. For six dominating months, everything worked well for the Pacers. Every play was executed to perfection, every defensive read made with little error. Then it all came unglued over the course of three weeks in May.

    The good thing about this? The Pacers know it. They know they screwed up: from the exemplary ownership group, to personnel chiefs Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird, to Rick Carlisle, his staff and his dedicated group of players. To a man, they've spent the summer stewing. You didn't hear anything about 8 a.m. "mandatory" workouts in July, or the players shaving their heads in a show of team unity in August, but the focus is there.

    This is an angry and talented team that understands permanence and impermanence. As such it wouldn't be a shock if the Pacers got off to a white-hot start to this season, à la the Rockets in '93 or the Bulls in '95.

    They'll do it because they can defend. Their exacting offense won't find its legs until January; in the meantime, Indiana will lock down opponents and get easy buckets in transition. Ron Artest will hit left-handed lay-ups off of Jeff Foster's outlet passes, and Reggie Miller will nail three-pointers off of fast breaks started by a stern Jermaine O'Neal rejection from the other end.

    The other O'Neal
    O'Neal is the key to this team on both ends. When he is on his game there is no better power forward in the league; he can jump over and around Tim Duncan any night he chooses. He hit for 20 points and 10 rebounds a game last year while averaging 2.6 blocks and was easily the East's MVP after Baron Davis shot his way into oblivion. And at 26 years of age, he can improve. He'll need to for Indiana to take down San Antonio next June.

    O'Neal's dilemma, oddly enough, may be that he is too talented. After breaking his right hand in high school, O'Neal developed a devastating left hook and learned to go over either shoulder on either block. (Charles Shackleford would call him "amphibious.") Problem is, he can appear hesitant when he goes up for an attempt, as if he is overwhelmed by the sheer array of moves he has at his disposal. Still, this doesn't excuse O'Neal's unfortunate 43 percent shooting from the floor; he needs to connect more often.

    O'Neal is a center, more or less, but Jeff Foster will have an upper-case "C" next to his name on opening night. Foster is your typical athletic banger: He can jump, use six fouls and let O'Neal roam for weak-side blocks. And on those few occasions he does shoot, Foster's 54 percent from the floor doesn't hurt.

    Scot Pollard was brought in last season to give Foster and O'Neal some rest, but he struggled mightily and looked two steps slow. Apparently, anyone can look like Carl Lewis past his prime after playing alongside Vlade Divac and Chris Webber for five years.

    Crazy like a fox ... we think
    Artest is No. 2 on this team -- to everyone but Artest. Ron-Ron is a peculiar, and arresting individual. No other player in the NBA intrigues as much as Artest, with the possible exception of Kevin Garnett. Artest's motivations and resulting courses of action often defy reason, even after five years in this league. But for all of his temper tantrums, hard fouls and broken cameras, Artest is the league's best all-around defender and quite possibly the NBA's most underrated and versatile scorer. This despite the fact the man can't jump. Still, he manages to stay in front of the league's quickest guards and worm his way around the league's better defenders on his way to the front of the rim. Artest can post-up, make the extra pass and bring the ball upcourt. He's a basketball player like they used to make them.

    Dogged and unselfish to a fault, he is the Pacers' most versatile pawn. Bird asked Artest before last season to curtail his insistence on patrolling the passing lanes for turnovers and concentrate on straight-up defense. The effort helped the Pacers hold their opponents to an average of a 85.6 points per game. As quirky as he is, the Pacers did the right thing in hanging on to him this summer. After all, doesn't every champion need to be a bit eccentric?

    Artest will wear No. 91 this year. Sounds about right.

    Don't call them Al
    Filling out the frontcourt will be more difficult this year without Al Harrington (traded to Atlanta), an underrated defender who could sop-up minutes at both forward positions. In his absence Austin Croshere and Jonathan Bender will have to show a bit more life.

    Bender, a sinewy 23-year-old who oozes talent, averaged more than 26 points-per-48 minutes last year but could only stay healthy for 21 contests, averaging less than 13 minutes a game. That isn't exactly the type of return Indiana was hoping for when it balked at paying Brad Miller. The Pacers would probably ship Bender to the Bulls for Antonio Davis' expiring contract in a second, some five-and-a-half years after AD was deemed "too old" for the blue and gold.

    After a few lost seasons under former coach Isiah Thomas, Croshere turned his game around -- slightly -- for Carlisle last season. The Pacers would like to let Croshere loose in the second quarter, as they did with Harrington last year. Sounds good on paper, but Croshere's sub-40 percent shooting from the floor is the reality. Croshere thinks too much, he dashes to the hoop when he should be shooting or chucks a trey when there's an open lane.

    Reggie targets his successor
    Newly acquired off-guard Stephen Jackson will come off the bench initially, spelling Reggie Miller, which is the way it should be. Miller's not going to do anything off the bench, he's consistent and knows how to execute the offense, whereas Jackson is still figuring things out (having played on four teams in three years). Miller continues to decline -- 10 points per game in 28 minutes a night last year -- but he's still connecting on 40 percent of his three-point attempts, and he still scares opposing coaches every time he comes off a screen.

    Miller's biggest contribution, though, will be in the locker room. Jackson is obviously his replacement, and the 39-year-old former All-Star surely can see the writing on the wall. Jackson will need the help. While he averaged more than 18 points for a horrendous Hawks team in '03-04, questions abound: Is Jackson ready for what NBA-types call a "consistent and structured offense?" Can he play defense? Will Carlisle feel like wringing his neck during a shoot-a-round in Orlando next February?

    After bouncing around the league during his first few seasons, this is Jackson's big chance. He won a ring with San Antonio in '03 but little was expected of him besides hitting the open shot and scoring in transition. That isn't the case anymore. Not with the lucrative contract. Not with the target he has on his back -- now that the rest of the league knows he can score 18-points a game. And not when he will be expected to listen, and eventually replace, the legend ahead of him.

    Learning the blues
    Aside from O'Neal, no player was more sorry to see Thomas fired last year than Jamaal Tinsley, who moved from starting point guard to the bench under the Carlisle-Bird regime. To his credit, Tinsley kept quiet as Kenny Anderson took most of the snaps early while Anthony Johnson became a consistent (and exceptional) presence off the bench. Slowly, though, by demonstrating a steady hand -- and nearly a 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio -- Tinsley won back his job and re-established himself as the Pacers' point guard of the future. If Tinsley subscribes to Carlisle's ball-control offense, cedes ball-handling duties to Artest for spells and saves his derring-do for the transition game, he could find himself an NBA champion at age 27.

    After Thomas' inconsistent run on the bench , Carlisle has provided discipline and a cogent plan of attack on both sides of the ball. The result was an NBA-best 61 wins and a berth in the East finals. Carlisle, once again, will have to find a happy medium between exhorting his players -- and insisting they stay focused -- and giving them room to make and learn from their mistakes.

    Theoretically helping with that task will be Kevin O'Neill, who returns to the NBA fold as an assistant after flaming out as a head coach in Toronto.

    That makes for one angry bench. Maybe a little fire is what these Pacers need, to remember this past spring. Look out, NBA.

    Center: Jeff Foster -- Needs to establish a consistent baseline jumper and find ways to stay on the court and out of foul trouble.

    Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal -- Got married and passed on the Olympics, so he should be fresh for '04-05. Good thing, because he'll have to exceed his 20-and-10 averages in the playoffs. Also tallied 16 technical fouls last season? Ride easy, JO.

    Small Forward: Ron Artest -- Only ... 24 ... years ... old.

    Shooting Guard: Reggie Miller -- The perfect mentor for Stephen Jackson, but is he up to the challenge?

    Point Guard: Jamaal Tinsley -- Not Rod Strickland, but not John Bagley either. This is good?

    Jonathan Bender -- Last chance to shine before Bird gives him a change of scenery.

    Austin Croshere -- Can still play -- I swear.

    Eddie Gill -- Enjoys shooting the ball: catching and shooting the ball or dribbling and shooting the ball.

    Stephen Jackson -- Now enjoys the luxury of being the second-most eccentric guy on the team.

    Fred Jones -- An undersized shooting guard who can put up points in a hurry. It's still hard to see where he will find minutes.

    James Jones -- Should see the words "Lowgators" or "Riverdragons" on his caller ID sometime next January.

    Anthony Johnson -- An underrated point guard whose jump shot has come a long way.

    David Harrison -- Made it to the first round, but he's a project that needs a lot of work.

    Scot Pollard -- Cashed checks with the best of 'em in 2003-04.

    cnn.si.com/2004/basketball/nba

    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    oops, wrong link....here's the right one
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../state.pacers/

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

      Did CNNSI hire Mark Monieth to write this one?
      [edit=64=1096332424][/edit]

      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

        Jealous your Pistons didn't get one? jk

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

          Eddie Gill -- Enjoys shooting the ball: catching and shooting the ball or dribbling and shooting the ball.
          I thought Rick was quoted saying he was a "true" point guard?

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

            Originally posted by PacersFan
            Jealous your Pistons didn't get one? jk
            Its an ongoing season preview-every team in the NBA gets one. The Pistons had theirs already, actually.
            [edit=64=1096333135][/edit]

            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

              ok, yea...i found the part about Eddie a little contradictary after reading Carlisle's comments too

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                Sign that guy up for the Sunshine Brigade already.

                Was the Pistons preview that flowery, or should we just cancel the season now so that we can thoroughly enjoy our "paper championship"?
                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                And life itself, rushing over me
                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                  Originally posted by Jay@Section204
                  Sign that guy up for the Sunshine Brigade already.

                  Was the Pistons preview that flowery, or should we just cancel the season now so that we can thoroughly enjoy our "paper championship"?
                  It was a while ago, but yeah, I seem to remember it being pretty fluffy. I'll see if I can find it.

                  As I recall, the writer said, "Its Brown's championship to lose," and went on to make comparisons of Ben Wallace to Bill Russell, and Tayshawn Prince to Bobby Jones.

                  I also admired the fact the guy loves Ronald Dupree more than I do.....
                  [edit=64=1096335363][/edit]
                  [edit=64=1096335395][/edit]
                  [edit=64=1096335497][/edit]

                  It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                  Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                  Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                  NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                    Geez SI is great, they use their collective brains. One of the few media outlets that gives tinsley ANY credit.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                      I hope we dont ship James Jones out. That kid can shoot.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                        What's really interesting is the Bender averaged more than 26 points per 48 minutes. What if he can actually stay on the court this year? He's probably going to be given around 30 minutes per game, that means we could realistically see him producing about 15-17 points per game. That would be huge, especially with him being a perimeter threat we've desperately been searching for and spreading the floor.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                          Quote:
                          "James Jones -- Should see the words "Lowgators" or "Riverdragons" on his caller ID sometime next January."

                          Jones is our next Reggie, I promise. He had a great summer league (or at least good). and there's something a little freaky about him too...

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                            You call that equal form?

                            One player shoots the ball from his right side, the other releases it directly above his head.....

                            I don;t get it.

                            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

                              Originally posted by Kstat
                              You call that equal form?

                              One player shoots the ball from his right side, the other releases it directly above his head.....

                              I don;t get it.
                              That's what I see as well...

                              Comment

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