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Thread: Somebody Finally Gets It

  1. #1
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    Default Somebody Finally Gets It

    State of the Pacers
    NBA teams should be forewarned: Indiana is angry and talented
    Posted: Monday September 27, 2004 3:22PM; Updated: Monday September 27, 2004 3:22PM





    Indiana
    Pacers

    Reigning Defensive Player of the Year Ron Artest is a player few opposing scorers have been able to solve.
    Ezra Shaw/Getty Images
    Pacers At A Glance
    Head coach -- Rick Carlisle
    2003-04 Season -- Record: 61-21 | Stats

    Key Additions
    SF Stephen Jackson (Hawks)
    C David Harrison (draft)

    Key Losses
    SF Al Harrington (Hawks)
    PG Kenny Anderson (Pacers)

    Projected Lineup
    Starters Reserves
    PG J. Tinsley A. Johnson
    SG R. Miller S. Jackson
    SF R. Artest J. Bender
    PF J. O'Neal A. Croshere
    C J. Foster S. Pollard





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    We might as well be blunt about it: The Indiana Pacers missed a golden opportunity in 2003-04. They should have knocked off the Detroit Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals, and they would have destroyed the Lakers in the Finals. For six dominating months, everything worked well for the Pacers. Every play was executed to perfection, every defensive read made with little error. Then it all came unglued over the course of three weeks in May.

    The good thing about this? The Pacers know it. They know they screwed up: from the exemplary ownership group, to personnel chiefs Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird, to Rick Carlisle, his staff and his dedicated group of players. To a man, they've spent the summer stewing. You didn't hear anything about 8 a.m. "mandatory" workouts in July, or the players shaving their heads in a show of team unity in August, but the focus is there.

    This is an angry and talented team that understands permanence and impermanence. As such it wouldn't be a shock if the Pacers got off to a white-hot start to this season, à la the Rockets in '93 or the Bulls in '95.

    They'll do it because they can defend. Their exacting offense won't find its legs until January; in the meantime, Indiana will lock down opponents and get easy buckets in transition. Ron Artest will hit left-handed lay-ups off of Jeff Foster's outlet passes, and Reggie Miller will nail three-pointers off of fast breaks started by a stern Jermaine O'Neal rejection from the other end.

    The other O'Neal
    O'Neal is the key to this team on both ends. When he is on his game there is no better power forward in the league; he can jump over and around Tim Duncan any night he chooses. He hit for 20 points and 10 rebounds a game last year while averaging 2.6 blocks and was easily the East's MVP after Baron Davis shot his way into oblivion. And at 26 years of age, he can improve. He'll need to for Indiana to take down San Antonio next June.

    O'Neal's dilemma, oddly enough, may be that he is too talented. After breaking his right hand in high school, O'Neal developed a devastating left hook and learned to go over either shoulder on either block. (Charles Shackleford would call him "amphibious.") Problem is, he can appear hesitant when he goes up for an attempt, as if he is overwhelmed by the sheer array of moves he has at his disposal. Still, this doesn't excuse O'Neal's unfortunate 43 percent shooting from the floor; he needs to connect more often.

    O'Neal is a center, more or less, but Jeff Foster will have an upper-case "C" next to his name on opening night. Foster is your typical athletic banger: He can jump, use six fouls and let O'Neal roam for weak-side blocks. And on those few occasions he does shoot, Foster's 54 percent from the floor doesn't hurt.

    Scot Pollard was brought in last season to give Foster and O'Neal some rest, but he struggled mightily and looked two steps slow. Apparently, anyone can look like Carl Lewis past his prime after playing alongside Vlade Divac and Chris Webber for five years.

    Crazy like a fox ... we think
    Artest is No. 2 on this team -- to everyone but Artest. Ron-Ron is a peculiar, and arresting individual. No other player in the NBA intrigues as much as Artest, with the possible exception of Kevin Garnett. Artest's motivations and resulting courses of action often defy reason, even after five years in this league. But for all of his temper tantrums, hard fouls and broken cameras, Artest is the league's best all-around defender and quite possibly the NBA's most underrated and versatile scorer. This despite the fact the man can't jump. Still, he manages to stay in front of the league's quickest guards and worm his way around the league's better defenders on his way to the front of the rim. Artest can post-up, make the extra pass and bring the ball upcourt. He's a basketball player like they used to make them.

    Dogged and unselfish to a fault, he is the Pacers' most versatile pawn. Bird asked Artest before last season to curtail his insistence on patrolling the passing lanes for turnovers and concentrate on straight-up defense. The effort helped the Pacers hold their opponents to an average of a 85.6 points per game. As quirky as he is, the Pacers did the right thing in hanging on to him this summer. After all, doesn't every champion need to be a bit eccentric?

    Artest will wear No. 91 this year. Sounds about right.

    Don't call them Al
    Filling out the frontcourt will be more difficult this year without Al Harrington (traded to Atlanta), an underrated defender who could sop-up minutes at both forward positions. In his absence Austin Croshere and Jonathan Bender will have to show a bit more life.

    Bender, a sinewy 23-year-old who oozes talent, averaged more than 26 points-per-48 minutes last year but could only stay healthy for 21 contests, averaging less than 13 minutes a game. That isn't exactly the type of return Indiana was hoping for when it balked at paying Brad Miller. The Pacers would probably ship Bender to the Bulls for Antonio Davis' expiring contract in a second, some five-and-a-half years after AD was deemed "too old" for the blue and gold.

    After a few lost seasons under former coach Isiah Thomas, Croshere turned his game around -- slightly -- for Carlisle last season. The Pacers would like to let Croshere loose in the second quarter, as they did with Harrington last year. Sounds good on paper, but Croshere's sub-40 percent shooting from the floor is the reality. Croshere thinks too much, he dashes to the hoop when he should be shooting or chucks a trey when there's an open lane.

    Reggie targets his successor
    Newly acquired off-guard Stephen Jackson will come off the bench initially, spelling Reggie Miller, which is the way it should be. Miller's not going to do anything off the bench, he's consistent and knows how to execute the offense, whereas Jackson is still figuring things out (having played on four teams in three years). Miller continues to decline -- 10 points per game in 28 minutes a night last year -- but he's still connecting on 40 percent of his three-point attempts, and he still scares opposing coaches every time he comes off a screen.

    Miller's biggest contribution, though, will be in the locker room. Jackson is obviously his replacement, and the 39-year-old former All-Star surely can see the writing on the wall. Jackson will need the help. While he averaged more than 18 points for a horrendous Hawks team in '03-04, questions abound: Is Jackson ready for what NBA-types call a "consistent and structured offense?" Can he play defense? Will Carlisle feel like wringing his neck during a shoot-a-round in Orlando next February?

    After bouncing around the league during his first few seasons, this is Jackson's big chance. He won a ring with San Antonio in '03 but little was expected of him besides hitting the open shot and scoring in transition. That isn't the case anymore. Not with the lucrative contract. Not with the target he has on his back -- now that the rest of the league knows he can score 18-points a game. And not when he will be expected to listen, and eventually replace, the legend ahead of him.

    Learning the blues
    Aside from O'Neal, no player was more sorry to see Thomas fired last year than Jamaal Tinsley, who moved from starting point guard to the bench under the Carlisle-Bird regime. To his credit, Tinsley kept quiet as Kenny Anderson took most of the snaps early while Anthony Johnson became a consistent (and exceptional) presence off the bench. Slowly, though, by demonstrating a steady hand -- and nearly a 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio -- Tinsley won back his job and re-established himself as the Pacers' point guard of the future. If Tinsley subscribes to Carlisle's ball-control offense, cedes ball-handling duties to Artest for spells and saves his derring-do for the transition game, he could find himself an NBA champion at age 27.

    After Thomas' inconsistent run on the bench , Carlisle has provided discipline and a cogent plan of attack on both sides of the ball. The result was an NBA-best 61 wins and a berth in the East finals. Carlisle, once again, will have to find a happy medium between exhorting his players -- and insisting they stay focused -- and giving them room to make and learn from their mistakes.

    Theoretically helping with that task will be Kevin O'Neill, who returns to the NBA fold as an assistant after flaming out as a head coach in Toronto.

    That makes for one angry bench. Maybe a little fire is what these Pacers need, to remember this past spring. Look out, NBA.

    Center: Jeff Foster -- Needs to establish a consistent baseline jumper and find ways to stay on the court and out of foul trouble.

    Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal -- Got married and passed on the Olympics, so he should be fresh for '04-05. Good thing, because he'll have to exceed his 20-and-10 averages in the playoffs. Also tallied 16 technical fouls last season? Ride easy, JO.

    Small Forward: Ron Artest -- Only ... 24 ... years ... old.

    Shooting Guard: Reggie Miller -- The perfect mentor for Stephen Jackson, but is he up to the challenge?

    Point Guard: Jamaal Tinsley -- Not Rod Strickland, but not John Bagley either. This is good?

    Jonathan Bender -- Last chance to shine before Bird gives him a change of scenery.

    Austin Croshere -- Can still play -- I swear.

    Eddie Gill -- Enjoys shooting the ball: catching and shooting the ball or dribbling and shooting the ball.

    Stephen Jackson -- Now enjoys the luxury of being the second-most eccentric guy on the team.

    Fred Jones -- An undersized shooting guard who can put up points in a hurry. It's still hard to see where he will find minutes.

    James Jones -- Should see the words "Lowgators" or "Riverdragons" on his caller ID sometime next January.

    Anthony Johnson -- An underrated point guard whose jump shot has come a long way.

    David Harrison -- Made it to the first round, but he's a project that needs a lot of work.

    Scot Pollard -- Cashed checks with the best of 'em in 2003-04.

    cnn.si.com/2004/basketball/nba


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    oops, wrong link....here's the right one
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../state.pacers/

  3. #3
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Did CNNSI hire Mark Monieth to write this one?
    [edit=64=1096332424][/edit]

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Jealous your Pistons didn't get one? jk

  5. #5
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Eddie Gill -- Enjoys shooting the ball: catching and shooting the ball or dribbling and shooting the ball.
    I thought Rick was quoted saying he was a "true" point guard?

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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersFan
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Jealous your Pistons didn't get one? jk
    Its an ongoing season preview-every team in the NBA gets one. The Pistons had theirs already, actually.
    [edit=64=1096333135][/edit]

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  7. #7
    PacersFan
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    ok, yea...i found the part about Eddie a little contradictary after reading Carlisle's comments too

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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Sign that guy up for the Sunshine Brigade already.

    Was the Pistons preview that flowery, or should we just cancel the season now so that we can thoroughly enjoy our "paper championship"?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Sign that guy up for the Sunshine Brigade already.

    Was the Pistons preview that flowery, or should we just cancel the season now so that we can thoroughly enjoy our "paper championship"?
    It was a while ago, but yeah, I seem to remember it being pretty fluffy. I'll see if I can find it.

    As I recall, the writer said, "Its Brown's championship to lose," and went on to make comparisons of Ben Wallace to Bill Russell, and Tayshawn Prince to Bobby Jones.

    I also admired the fact the guy loves Ronald Dupree more than I do.....
    [edit=64=1096335363][/edit]
    [edit=64=1096335395][/edit]
    [edit=64=1096335497][/edit]

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Geez SI is great, they use their collective brains. One of the few media outlets that gives tinsley ANY credit.

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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    I hope we dont ship James Jones out. That kid can shoot.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    What's really interesting is the Bender averaged more than 26 points per 48 minutes. What if he can actually stay on the court this year? He's probably going to be given around 30 minutes per game, that means we could realistically see him producing about 15-17 points per game. That would be huge, especially with him being a perimeter threat we've desperately been searching for and spreading the floor.

  13. #13
    howboutanicebrew_er
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Quote:
    "James Jones -- Should see the words "Lowgators" or "Riverdragons" on his caller ID sometime next January."

    Jones is our next Reggie, I promise. He had a great summer league (or at least good). and there's something a little freaky about him too...
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    You call that equal form?

    One player shoots the ball from his right side, the other releases it directly above his head.....

    I don;t get it.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  15. #15
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    You call that equal form?

    One player shoots the ball from his right side, the other releases it directly above his head.....

    I don;t get it.
    That's what I see as well...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersFan
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    . The Pacers would probably ship Bender to the Bulls for Antonio Davis' expiring contract in a second, some five-and-a-half years after AD was deemed "too old" for the blue and gold.
    Does that sound right to anybody?

    The writer makes it sound like they would give Bender away if they could. If that were the case the Pacers could have just put him on the the expansion list and I'm sure Charlotte would have taken him off of our hands.

    Overall the piece was far more accurate than national coverage usually is, but that comment is baffling to me.

  17. #17
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
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    Does that sound right to anybody?

    The writer makes it sound like they would give Bender away if they could. If that were the case the Pacers could have just put him on the the expansion list and I'm sure Charlotte would have taken him off of our hands.
    No, IMHO the Pacer wouldn't do that at this point. Too much invested in him to make a deal like that where we KNOW we aren't getting anything much in return.

    I'm glad you pointed that out tho... That just shows me how quick some are to embrace an article favorable of the Pacers regardless of questionable details yet will cry all day long about a writer such as Kravitz who showed us that there are some worts and was accurate in his assessment.

    -Bball

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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    eeeeeeee gads.

    No. Their form is totally different.

    Reggie: Elbow of shooting arm out, elbow of guide arm actually in, guide hand actually on top of ball.

    Freddie: Elbow of shooting arm in, elbow of guide arm slightly out, guide hand on side of ball.

    By any evaluation, Freddie's form is much better than Reggie's. But you can't argue with consistency and success. I guess we should be glad that none of Reggie's earlier Pacer coaches messed with his form, huh?

    As far as Bender goes, 26 points per 48 minutes is an impressive output. The only way this year he gets a shot at producing points this year though is by staying healthy and either finally demonstrating that he can play perimeter defense at SF or being inserted into a lineup that is able to cover for his poor perimeter defense.

    As for trading Bender for AD's expiring contract, I don't know if even I would do that right now. But there is a lot to be said for holding that contract. AD's still able to help out teams in a stretch run, and a lot of teams will want to acquire the cap space for the summer. I'll bet that the team that is holding AD's contract in February will get themselves some decent value in return for trading it.

    [edit=98=1096389850][/edit]

  19. #19
    sweabs
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    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    eeeeeeee gads.

    No. Their form is totally different.

    Reggie: Elbow of shooting arm out, elbow of guide arm actually in, guide hand actually on top of ball.

    Freddie: Elbow of shooting arm in, elbow of guide arm slightly out, guide hand on side of ball.

    By any evaluation, Freddie's form is much better than Reggie's. But you can't argue with consistency and success. I guess we should be glad that none of Reggie's earlier Pacer coaches messed with his form, huh?
    Weren't we comparing Reggie and James Jones?


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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Yep. Mia culpa. Chalk it down to a brain fart. Didn't even look at the player, just the form.

  21. #21
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    "Artest can post-up, make the extra pass and bring the ball upcourt. He's a basketball player like they used to make them...Dogged and unselfish to a fault"

    -- I'm glad someone articulated this fact. I agree with it. You hear the opposite quite a bit on this board.

    It is true, once in a while Artest goes off and throws up a few prayers without passing, but I believe this happens when the offense has broken down and there's no real strategy in place. (Remember last year when he said they needed a better offense?)

    So..the point is not that he's selfish. He's a determined winner who definitely plays unselfishly in order to win - and can make great passes. But when the whole offense goes to pot, he gets frustrated and does things out of desperation. (NOT out of selfishness.)
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Somebody Finally Gets It

    Anyone else notice that he didn't mention David Harrison?

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