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Thread: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

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    Default Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Vogel: "Credit to Philly, they played a good basketball game, they were the better team. Our guys just got to be better, they all understand it, I understand it. We aren't play well on defense and we aren't moving the ball enough"

    Hansbrough: "It's very frustrating, I felt we came out flat tonight, in the first half, we started getting things going late, if the whole game had been like the 4th quarter, it would have been a different game. We aren't a good enough team to play like we did in the first half. If we keep coming out like, we will get our butts kicked. I tried to get a spark going for us, but it wasn't our tonight"

    Dahntay Jones: "It's getting very frustrating, the frustration is mounting. We're trying to get our stuff together. Getting better and taking care of the ball are our prioritys right now, and if we do that, the playoffs will come"

    A.J. Price: "It's very frustrating, we know we can win these games, it's dissapointing when we shoot ourselves in the first half, like we have in the last couple games, it takes too much to get over the hump and we couldn't do. We aren't the Celtics or Heat with elite, so we can't fool ourselves. We have to play like we did in the 4th quarter if we want to make the playoffs. We need to play much better, where we stand as far as the playoffs is the least of our concerns".

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    No **** it's "very frustrating" why don't you play some solid defense and the wins will come. It's not rocket science.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Meh. Maybe they can't play much better. Maybe they can. Now isn't the time to go into free fall. I think it's more about the end of the honeymoon and the quality of the opponents. Although, Philly at home would at least be an opportunity in the stretch not to get worked like they did.
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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Well, the three quotes are all from guys in the second unit.

    Reading between the lines, they are all saying, "The starters are sucking big time, getting us down by ten in the first few minutes. If not for that, we could win some games."
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Sounds to me like they don't think the starting unit is trying hard enough. And I agree.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    I believe if the Playoffs Started today Philly would give the Bulls a very good first round series. If they keep playing well they may take the Knicks as the 6th Seed. They have a way better team than the Pacers.

    Holiday > Collison

    Meeks/Rush is a push

    AI > Granger

    Brand > Mc Roberts

    Hibbert/ Hawes is also a push

    The sky is not falling for this team; they are just a bottom tier NBA Team.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Danny has gone AOL under Frank.
    Sure, he is driving the ball more (a good thing), & he has had a few moments, but if Danny is "our guy", then even when he is not THE focus, he should be A focus in our offense, & IMO he has not been. Take last night - when Danny scored late in the 4th it was his first score since midway thru the 2nd Q. He went almost a half of basketball w/o scoring a point! How is that allowed, let alone possible in a big game, at home, against a player (Iggy) who was responsible for his *** sitting all summer in international play! Where was his emotion, where was his pride? Where was Frank's play calling getting Danny the ball, & where were his teamates getting Danny the ball?

    IMO this year was Danny's best chance (& last) chance to be "The face of a Franchise", & he just let it walk by w/ the same emotionless face he always displays. I take that back, Danny does show emotion, but when your "star" player's only distinguishable emotion is "pouting", you have no star, you have no leader. This is our single biggest weakness - it's not PG play nor is it PF play, it's not shooting, slashing, defense or even coaching - its Leadership!!! Unfortunately, we have little to speak of, and until we do, we are what we are....
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
    (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Yup. Read between the lines and that's exactly what's going on.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    I think we sometimes read too much into isolated quotations from the players put into newsprint. Comments are often quoted out of context and other things said don't get printed. Sports pages and sportswriters love to gin up supposed "controversy" and readers then get their underwear all out of whack.

    We here too at Pacers Digest tend to read a press quote as if we were former Kremlinologists trying to glean meaning and political nuances from looking at who happens to be sitting on a Politboro reviewing stand on May Day. Maybe a feel for what's happening inside a player's mind can be gleaned from an isolated press quote and maybe not. I take all this with a grain of salt; know that I don't know; and go to our games hoping for the best.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    I found these comments from Doug Collins to be interesting.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...p_Indiana.html

    "[Darren] Collison ate us up last time," Collins said, of the Pacers' point guard. "We were going to be much more aggressive on him and trap him, because when they play the big lineup, they have one less shooter on the floor, so you can trap Collison. That was critical for our defense to be much more aggressive on him. We were, and Jrue did a really good job."

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I found these comments from Doug Collins to be interesting.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...p_Indiana.html

    "[Darren] Collison ate us up last time," Collins said, of the Pacers' point guard. "We were going to be much more aggressive on him and trap him, because when they play the big lineup, they have one less shooter on the floor, so you can trap Collison. That was critical for our defense to be much more aggressive on him. We were, and Jrue did a really good job."

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I found these comments from Doug Collins to be interesting.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...p_Indiana.html


    "[Darren] Collison ate us up last time," Collins said, of the Pacers' point guard. "We were going to be much more aggressive on him and trap him, because when they play the big lineup, they have one less shooter on the floor, so you can trap Collison. That was critical for our defense to be much more aggressive on him. We were, and Jrue did a really good job."
    So the Pacers are more effective playing small ball is basically what he's saying... I don't have a counter since last night was horrible ineffective.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    So the Pacers are more effective playing small ball is basically what he's saying... I don't have a counter since last night was horrible ineffective.
    Well, he's saying the Pacers non-small lineup was easier for them to defend. Or that they were able to employ certain tactics against that lineup that they couldn't employ against a smaller one.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    OK so let's say that we played another shooter(Posey?) and decided to put Hansbrough on the bench, I would like to know who was going to get 26points 6 rebounds and 3 steals in his place? at least he kept us close enough to win the game, to bad we don't have a closer.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Collins was pointing out take the ball out of Darren's hands and it left them with only Granger to worry about and Iguodola's defense can shut him off. He knows Rush and McRoberts are not going to create for themselves. Roy Hibbert is not going to hurt you if the ball is not in his hands.

    Basicly with Josh and Rush on the court its 3 1/2 vs 5 on our offensive end. It worked well as Rush and McRoberts combined for 9 points and Iggy held Danny to 11.

    With Josh and Rush in the lineup the starters are very easy to defend.
    Last edited by diamonddave00; 03-09-2011 at 05:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Hence, the reason I think it's time Vogel changed the lineup and started Hans and George. As I said in post-game thread, it's not a knock on Jmac but certainly is on BRush.

    Jmac's not a scorer. He's not going to make alot of stand-still jumpers. He gets most of his points while in transition because he plays above the rim so much. I like that about him, but if he's not going to incorporate a decent consistent jump shot into his game or develop some post moves, he's really not helping Hibbert out very much. (Of course, Hibbert's not helping himself out much these days either.) Hibbert needs another banger down low. Hansborough is our man!

    BRush just hasn't been getting the job down neither as a bench player nor as a starter. At this point, George has been more consistent despite his rookie mistakes. But I can live with that because I see him putting in the effort trying to get better, trying to help his team win. I don't see the same focus and dedication from BRush.

    So, I'd say it's time to tweak things alittle. Either start Hans and George, or rotate them into the game sooner w/the remaining starters and play them extended minutes.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    I think you make the move to start Hansbrough, it gives you a guy they can't cheat off of.

    Also, you make George more of a focal point with the second team. You lose a low post scorer with the second unit (although I'd put D Jones down there some), but you have a hi octane group that will really run the break and create off the dribble, as well as willing passers.

    I said it about a week ago, I really think that would make a difference.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think you make the move to start Hansbrough, it gives you a guy they can't cheat off of.

    Also, you make George more of a focal point with the second team. You lose a low post scorer with the second unit (although I'd put D Jones down there some), but you have a hi octane group that will really run the break and create off the dribble, as well as willing passers.

    I said it about a week ago, I really think that would make a difference.
    I'm maybe OK with Hansborough, although I don't think he defends nearly as well as Josh. I think he would bring a lot more offensive punch and, as you say, force someone to guard him.

    I wouldn't sub Paul George for Granger though. Granger's still the far better player. I like Paul a lot and think he's got great upside. However, I'm still not totally sure what he can do or how he would react to being anointed to carry DG's night-in, night-out scoring burden. Every night we call upon DG to get us 20 points. If he doesn't we lose. I don't know how PG would react if we imposed that burden on him. I'm also not sure how DG would react if relegated to the Goons.

    I'd leave Paul in the second unit. However, I'd actually run some plays for him there - something Vogel doesn't seem to do. What Paul gets in the Goon Squad seems to always be free-lanced and not planned. I fault Vogel for this because I think Paul George has great upside as a one-on-one scorer. Certainly more than Brandon Rush, but he's not as good as Danny IMHO, at least not yet. His day may come, however, and I hope it does.
    Last edited by IndyHoya; 03-09-2011 at 01:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Dahntay's throwing a fit because of his apparent beef with Lance. I personally feel he should sit down and shut up and be glad he's getting minutes at all. It's definitely time to start Paul and Tyler, and put Rush deep in the bench. He's been the ultimate non-factor lately, and an overall bust in my opinion. I still wish we would have kept Jerryd Bayless instead. Imagine the difference in the roster now had we done so. We'd be better off.
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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyHoya View Post
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    I'm maybe OK with Hansborough, although I don't think he defends nearly as well as Josh. I think he would bring a lot more offensive punch and, as you say, force someone to guard him.

    I wouldn't sub Paul George for Granger though. Granger's still the far better player. I like Paul a lot and think he's got great upside. However, I'm still not sure what he can do.

    I'd leave Paul in the second unit. However, I'd actually run some plays for him there - something Vogel doesn't seem to do. What Paul gets in the Goon Squad seems to always be free-lanced and not planned. I fault Vogel for this because I think Paul George has great upside as a one-on-one scorer. Certainly more than Brandon Rush, but not as good as Danny, at least not yet.
    I wonder how much "politics" plays a part in it.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I wonder how much "politics" plays a part in it.
    ?? u mean by the FO or the players??

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    ??
    The players.

    Wells said that both Dahntay and Lance were a locker room problem. He said Lance was more of one, but that "Dahntay is Dahntay" and he's outspoken and such.

    Well, in the second unit, in the half court, what does AJ do, 70% of the time? Give the ball to Dahntay. Unless someone else is playing really well. (And then it decreases to about 60%)

    Now, because Dahntay shoots about 50%, it doesn't hurt us. And the other things Dahntay brings to the game (his energy, intensity, defense) helps the team too..this hasn't hurt us. But he likes getting the ball.

    So maybe it just..helps team chemistry a bit more..if the Rookie is the guy left as the fourth option. And PG doesn't make waves about it.

    I still say part of it's on PG. He doesn't do anything to give anyone the opportunity to run a play for him. But I have to wonder how much of it is a few players trying to keep the peace.
    Last edited by Sookie; 03-09-2011 at 01:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Wells said that both Dahntay and Lance were a locker room problem. He said Lance was more of one, but that "Dahntay is Dahntay" and he's outspoken and such.

    Well, in the second unit, in the half court, what does AJ do, 70% of the time? Give the ball to Dahntay. Unless someone else is playing really well. (And then it decreases to about 60%)

    Now, because Dahntay shoots about 50%, it doesn't hurt us. And the other things Dahntay brings to the game (his energy, intensity, defense) helps the team too..this hasn't hurt us. But he likes getting the ball.

    So maybe it just..helps team chemistry a bit more..if the Rookie is the guy left as the fourth option. And PG doesn't make waves about it.
    Interesting observation. If Vogel's calling the plays then AJ's gives to Dahntay are planned and Paul's not getting his number called means Vogel's intentionally short-shrifting him. I like aspects of Dahntay's game, but when he gets the ball it doesn't come back out; he usually starts working one-on-one, and it usually means a shot after a lot of dribbling time is consumed. Dahntay's shooting percentage is pretty good and therefore this isn't always a bad thing. But it tends to make our offense predictable and mean that Paul gets no planned touches.

    But you seem to be saying this isn't Vogel's doing. Rather it is something between AJ and Dahntay?
    Last edited by IndyHoya; 03-09-2011 at 02:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyHoya View Post
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    Interesting observation. If Vogel's calling the plays then AJ's gives to Dahntay are planned and Paul's not getting his number called means Vogel's intentionally short-shrifting him. I like aspects of Dahntay's game, but when he gets the ball it doesn't come back out; he usually starts working one-on-one, and it usually means a shot after a lot of dribbling time is consumed. Dahntay's shooting percentage is pretty good and therefore this isn't always a bad thing. But it tends to mean that Paul gets no planned touches.

    But you seem to be saying this isn't Vogel's doing. Rather it is something between AJ and Dahntay?
    Every well-drawn play ends up with a variety of options,. not just one, so that the play handler (usually the point, but whoever) can decide which path to take based on what the defense does.

    These are often prioritized, and it may well be that Paul is prioritized lower because of his rookie status. Unless Paul comes out with 60% shooting all the time, that probably isn't going to change. As much as it became a dirty phrase under the previous regime, you tend to need to make decisions based on what you think you can depend on, not based on what you hope might happen.
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    Default Re: Postgame Comments after loss to Sixers

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    These are often prioritized, and it may well be that Paul is prioritized lower because of his rookie status. Unless Paul comes out with 60% shooting all the time, that probably isn't going to change. As much as it became a dirty phrase under the previous regime, you tend to need to make decisions based on what you think you can depend on, not based on what you hope might happen.
    The first unit seldom runs plays for Brandon Rush (or Josh for that matter). The second unit seldom runs plays for Paul George.

    Maybe you're right about someone (be it Vogel, the point guards, or whomever is deciding what play to run) not thinking they are reliable options.

    In any event, they both seem to wind up standing at the 3 point line, motionless, and not doing anything with little involvement in the play. Maybe their role is to be a 3-point option. If so, it is an option that is little used.

    I don't think this is a good thing. Particularly for the first unit. As someone observed, Josh isn't considered an offensive threat and thus can be played soft and slacked off on. If the same can be done with Brandon (and that seems to be happening), then an opposing team's defensive task vis-a-vis the first unit gets vastly decomplicated.

    Add to this the fact that Dunleavy's now out of the lineup (with Brandon taking his place). We ran plays for Dunleavy and he had to be guarded by an opponent because he is a scoring threat. His absence also serves to lighten the defense load for the opposition when our first unit is out there.

    Perhaps all this is part of our first unit malaise.
    Last edited by IndyHoya; 03-09-2011 at 03:06 PM.

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