Kinda wish I weren't living off campus this year.
Kinda wish I weren't living off campus this year.
You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?
I'm so happy that Butler's doing this. They're not 'my team' (I guess that's IU, though I don't really follow anybody much at all), but it's so cool to see a local team that's 'not supposed to be there' do this, and now TWICE IN A ROW no less. It's exciting as a basketball fan from Indiana. Also cool to see some local (New Castle) boys playing a role as well (Zach Hahn, Chase Stigall).
I can't believe those guys will have been in two NCAA championship games. Unbelievable.
Butler is a team that's difficult not to root for.
Bunch of great guys part of that organization.
I am definitely rooting for Butler.
They've been my college team since I was about 5. Those DAWGS are awesome! with some higher ranked recruits We'll see if Butler can do it again next year.
If Butler loses tomorrow you can thank Kohl's for jinxing them
I'm just trying to figure out why Butler "wasn't supposed to do this" this year....weren't they national runners up last year? Weren't they out of UConn, Kentucky, and VCU the most likely team out of the Final 4 to be there? They're either a legitimate national bball power or cinderella, but they can't be both, and to me, that's what rubs me the wrong way about a lot of Butler fans, they want to be both.
Also, Blue 2, UGA 18 would like to have a chat with you.
That being said, as much as the mascot and some of the fans who want to both wear the glass slipper and call themselves the Duke of the Midwest annoy me, I love the team and the coach. So I'm at a deep conundrum when it comes to Butler basketball and this national championship game this year.
Last edited by Trader Joe; 04-04-2011 at 09:51 AM.
I agree but I think it has to do with the fact they are a midmajor than anything else. Its such a small school (4400 students total) nobody expected them to ever get there once let alone twice.
However you're right they stopped being a Cinderella after last season.
Duke University's undergrad enrollment is only like 6500 I think. Butler's still a private school, but I understand your general point, I just don't think it works that way.
It just rubs me the wrong way, either wear the glass slipper or be the big badass on the block, but don't try to be the big badass who also wears a glass slipper. It's not a good look. I can't tell you the hand fulls of Butler fans I've spoken to in the past week that have used the Cinderella argument and the "Duke of the Midwest" argument in the same discussion. You can't be both.
I don't understand why it's such a sticking point for you two. It's very rare for a school to go to back-to-back national championship games.
For all our talk about IU's history, they've never done it. (I'm not trying to pick a fight, just a factual statement with no emotional undertones attached)
Then add in the fact that they're a mid-major and it makes it all that much more improbable.
I really don't care about enrollment, because colleges have the power to recruit. (obviously) If Butler wanted too, and had the funds, it could have an enrollment of 1000 and the whole school only be the top notch athletes. Obviously academics wouldn't be worth a darn, but I highly doubt Coach Cal recruits with any mention of academics. (Brandon Knight being the exception)
But it's all about what conference you play in, and our love for the major/BCS conferences. If you're not in a major conference then you suck, or so many seem to think.
I just want their fans to choose. Is this run an improbable Cinderella moment or at they really going to be the Duke of the Midwest...time to choose.
The program itself, the players, the coaches, etc, I think they have all made their choices. Do I think Brad Stevens views this as a fluke? Hell no. The guy is a cocky mother****er and I appreciate that.
Again, they were national runners up last year, they lost Hayward, but added Marshall and kept Howard and Mack and Nored and Vanzant and Hahn, I mean do I need to go on? And yet it's unexpected that their back here? I disagree, a great accomplishment, a rare feat, all of those things are true, but I think those players expected to be here even if their play in November, December, and January didn't exactly inspire those hopes.
Butler wasn't supposed to do this year, because they were never even supposed to do this last year. It wasn't EVER supposed to happen. Then they lost their best player to the draft, and it definitely wasn't supposed to happen again. How many people thought last year was a once-in-a-lifetime situation? Now it has happened twice.
Out of the Final Four teams, there is no way that Butler was the most likely to be there. They were supposed to be there more than a VCU team that probably never should have gotten in the tournament, but definitely not more than UK or UCONN. UK is the 2nd greatest college basketball program ever. UCONN has already won 2 national titles in the past 12 years, and is looking for a 3rd. Was it a surprise that those teams went on such great runs to end the season? Yes. Was it more of a surprise than a Butler team that lost to a terrible Youngstown St. team made it? No chance. It is certainly possible that Butler might wouldn't have even made the tournament themselves if they do not beat Milwaukee on their home floor to win their conference tourney.
Last year was shocking, but it was obvious early on, and throughout the course of the season, that they were just a really good team. This year, that wasn't the case, which makes it even more surprising really.
I think people are taking how special this really is somewhat for granted, because it happened just a year ago.
Marshall was a big addition, and the improvement of Andrew Smith has been huge, but you're forgetting the loss of Willie Veasley. He was a (the?) leader of that team.
They were a team built on defense, and they lost their two best defenders in Hayward and Veasley.
Then they're still Cinderella. Fine, I can live with that. What I can't live with is someone who says "We're on a Cinderella run!" then goes on to say "But we're also the Duke of the Midwest". You can't have it both ways.
It's either a Cinderella run or it's not.
And I still think all the Blue 2 hype is incredibly stupid.
Nored? Nored is/was the best perimeter defender on that squad.
EDIT: Also, yeah Smith coming out of his shell in January is really probably the biggest reason they're here. He's probably the biggest reason Howard hasn't dealt with foul trouble.
Whoever is calling Butler the "Duke of the Midwest" is just flat out wrong to start with. When/if Butler wins multiple championships then people can start making that comparison, but right now that's not even in the ball park, let alone in left field.
Can I ask your feelings towards indiana high school history? How do you view Milan? When everyone talks about what was the beauty of a single class system, Milan is the very first thing that's brought up. Yet everyone seems to forget, or just not know, that they were in the state finals the year before and returned every player from that team.
(I know it's a little of topic, I just think the parallels between the two stories and how they're connected as far as the state and Hinkle is pretty cool)
As long as Butler is a mid-major, they will always be a Cinderella.
Since, I think we're not far apart on this issue at all.
I like the Milan story and I was aware of it's parallels.
My opinion is that Butler's runs here are Cinderella runs that should be appreciated for that, not a sign of a program set up for long term success.
My beef is simply with the fans that want to be both a national power and a cinderella. Oh and Blue 2.
Congrats.. Not really a Butler fan, but great work. Hopefully they win it all and Shelvin Mack/Ronald Nored can shut Kemba down. Maybe next year I'll watch them more often?
Joe .................. what's up with Blue II ??
Another reason Butler was a surprise is that back in January they were really struggling and certainly did not even look like a lock to win their league.
Now with two finals appearances (neither of which will be "vacated") along with conference championships, they have greatly exceeded the accomplishments of the much-hyped "Fab Five"
It would seem some people actively look for things to be annoyed by.
You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?
So you're mad that some Butler fans are contradicting themselves and a live mascot? Ok?
I don't think Butler has gotten much better, just that the rest of the NCAA has gotten worse. With high-profile players leaving the "name" programs as one and done's mid-majors are going to continue to improve at the expense of the big schools. I see a future in college basketball where you've got Duke and a bunch of mid-majors competing for the title almost every year, with maybe 2 or 3 name teams that have somehow been able to maintain their current talent for a couple of years.
No way Butler was expected to be back. When making my bracket I picked them to beat PITT and I thought that was a silly pick for me to make. I just hoped they'd make it back because last year's run was so much fun and heartbreaking at the same time.
This is why March Madness is great, I'm not typically a college guy and usually I'd say I go for IU, but since they are irrelevant, it is nice to have a team from my backyard to root for.
Super Bowl XLI Champions
2000 Eastern Conference Champions