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Thread: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

  1. #51
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Although I want to clarify my last statement. It's not that Kstat comes here just to troll on the Pacers, he doesn't do that. So before anyone wants to go off on a tangent claiming that, save your energy.

    But I do think that it seems like most of the responses Kstat has made lately seem to be any time where it's something negative that can be said about the Pacers. Meaning when he says something, and it's negative, it's usually got a lot of truth to it, but since I don't see the same activity in response to any positive Pacer threads, it comes across as sort-of anti-Pacers, even when I know better.

    And when it's on a thread about ripping Bender apart, and I'm one of the few remaining semi-optimists about JB, it tends to sting more.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    But yeah, I'm still (strangely?) optimistic about Bender finally being good this year. I don't over-emphasize his mental weaknesses like I feel many do, and I don't think they're as awful as some make them out to be, but they are there.

    My optimism mainly comes from the fact that I watch him pretty closely any time he's in the game, and every season, and particularly last year, he kept gradually looking more and more ready to produce to me. It's just a feeling; like RWB I don't have stats/references to back me up. So I'm optimistic right now because it's another year further along to being ready, and I think over the first half of this season he will officially be a producer, because now he will be given Al Harrington's role on the team (Backup PF/SF, major minutes), and that that large playing time, combined with a very consistant role, and the addition of 20lbs of presumably muscle to help him from getting nagging injuries or being thrown around in the post, will result in him becoming a true producer that we'll (mostly) all be happy to have on the team.
    [edit=12=1096214501][/edit]

  3. #53

    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Although I want to clarify my last statement. It's not that Kstat comes here just to troll on the Pacers, he doesn't do that. So before anyone wants to go off on a tangent claiming that, save your energy.

    But I do think that it seems like most of the responses Kstat has made lately seem to be any time where it's something negative that can be said about the Pacers. Meaning when he says something, and it's negative, it's usually got a lot of truth to it, but since I don't see the same activity in response to any positive Pacer threads, it comes across as sort-of anti-Pacers, even when I know better.

    And when it's on a thread about ripping Bender apart, and I'm one of the few remaining semi-optimists about JB, it tends to sting more.
    I saw flashes of Bender's ability last year and started to believe in his potential as well. He is just now coming into a mans body. If he can attain a mans mental status (concerning basketball) he will be a force in this league for several years. I believe this years Pacer team will finally reach the top of the heap and Bender could have a great deal to do with that success.

    Go Pacers

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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Your right Hicks we're not really blind to the fact Bender is way behind where we want or think he should have been. I know everyone hates that word potential, but as others have pointed out better than I can Bender DOES have the physical tools to be special. How many people in this league turn out to be franchise players? Not very many and the Al Harringtons, SJax, Antoine Walkers are a dime a dozen. This is why I personally have been patient with this guy. Walsh rolled the dice and up to this point it hasn't panned out. At the end of this season we're going to say Dear God what a major bust or WOW that's what Donnie saw. Being an introvert, lack of maturity, and no defined role along with the injuries has stunted his growth.

    Maybe that's why Bird likes Bender. Bird was and still is an introvert. The difference is Bird's basketball skills were never in question. But he's like Bender in he lacked self confidence, enough he couldn't play for Knight at IU.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  5. #55
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    I think if Bender is ever going to amount to anything, it is going to be this year. He's set up to be a big part of them team, and he is either going to succeed or fall flat on his face. I really hope he succeeds. If he reaches all-star quality, we could move JO officialy to center, which is pretty much what he plays anyway.

    An all-star starting frontcourt would equal very good chance at a championship.

    However, if he does fall on his face, we may not even make the ECF again. I think he will have that big of an impact, we're really counting on him, and so far, with his extra 20 lbs, he has responded.
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Bender WILL be special. I can feel it. It WILL happen.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Won't adding more weight and asking him to go play down low mean more injuries not less? Or have his injuries been do to his 7 foot frame trying to play low center of gravity ball like a guard (ankle breaks, lower ligament pulls, general lower body joint problems, and the like) ?
    [edit=390=1096295289][/edit]

  8. #58
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    the only problems JB had all this time were the factual ones: he had not grown into his body,

    Now if he adds some bball smarts to his brain, with some help from other players/coach we might actually be in for a surprise or should i say, finally get to see what is there.

    And there is a lot there, that we have seen.

    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    I have a semi-serious question - Do the Pacers have a Psychologist on staff? If they don't they should.

    This thread has come down to the same conclusion the Artest thread did - these guys are very, very talented but the main area they need to work on is their mental approach. I think Bender adding 20 lbs. will help with his injuries greatly, if the weight is muscle and is in the right proportions. From what I've read it is. The other part of his injury issue is mental. He seems to not have the ability to fight through pain like the rest of the team. I hope seeing the effort JO and Tinsley gave in the ECF will rub off on 5.1. He is a legitimate 20/10 threat, even off the bench. I have a funny feeling he will get 6th man of the year this year and I don't think we'll be hearing "I want to start" from Bender.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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  10. #60

    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Bender is going to have the same problems he did last year. I'm sorry to say that. He still has not proven that he has a basketball IQ larger than a DUCK, or that he can stay healthy. Gaining 20 pounds and an inch does not make him not injury-prone anymore. As much as I hate to say it, I am going to concur with kstat on this one.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  11. #61
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    I am concurring with no one on this, most certainly not with those who have no hope left.

    I am not under the impression that I know more then the P's staff, therefore I have some faith left.

    avoiding injury is also something that can come with age, it depends a whole lot on growth whether bones are easily hurt or not, JB was to young when he entered the league, he had not even stopped growing, henceforth his injuries can easily have been aggrivated by that.

    He's gonna be a pleasant surprise to most of you.

    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  12. #62
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    Anyone who still expects Bender to be 'special' and a 'superstar' type player has been drinking way too much Koolaid.

    The best we can hope for out of Bender is that he is a servicable utility type player that can create some matchup problems on the offensive end in more than a few situations. And he's likely a career 6th man at best. He will always be a defensive liability because he has no position he can actually excel at defensively. Blocked shots do not a true defender make.

    He's too slow and gawky for SF and SG. He's too soft for the work down low as a PF and IMHO the Pacers don't have much in the way of options to cover that up.

    We've seen plenty of Bender to know that the 'superstar' stuff ain't coming. The remaining question is whether a good coach and system can make him a servicable 6th man.... or at least offense for the second unit.



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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    Maybe that's why Bird likes Bender. Bird was and still is an introvert. The difference is Bird's basketball skills were never in question. But he's like Bender in he lacked self confidence, enough he couldn't play for Knight at IU.
    Bird lacked in self-confidence? I seriously doubt a lack of self-confidence is why he left IU. If anything it was his self-confidence that caused him to leave IU. And his leaving IU was probably one of the best decisions he ever made.

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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    If I remember the story correctly, Kent Bensen chased away Bird before the team even had its first practice in 1974.

    From the stories I've heard, Benny was a difficult son-of-a-gun to get along with.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  15. #65
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    If I remember the story correctly, Kent Bensen chased away Bird before the team even had its first practice in 1974.

    From the stories I've heard, Benny was a difficult son-of-a-gun to get along with.
    You remember the story correctly and Bird never let a chance go by in the NBA to effect some payback on KB.

    -Bball

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  16. #66

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    Bird has said that he would have been better sooner if he had stayed at IU.

    The true story is that Bird came on campus to practice with other players in the summer. Quinn Buckner and a few of the other team leaders were away with a traveling Big 10 or USA team.

    Benson and some other guys decided that freshman deserved some hazing, and should be told that they were not worthy of practicing with the returning players. Bird was not allowed to play in their pickup games. Larry had no friends on campus, almost no spending money, only a bare minimum of not-so-nice clothes, and nothing much to do.

    His roomate Jim Wisman was apparently a rich kid man-about -campus and Bird disliked him from the start.

    Without basketball, he finally got homesick and said "F it, why am I hanging around here?"

    Quinn Buckner has said that had he been on campus instead of with the touring team, he would have allowed Bird to play.

    There might be more banners in Assembly Hall had that been the case.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  17. #67

    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    with regard to the payback on Benson-- some of the stories are precious.

    Kevin McHale was scorching Benson one night.

    Bird just kept feeding McHale every single time Benson was on him. McHale scored 56 and Bird had about 15 assists.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    Larry Bird can carry a grudge like no one. The story where McHale was killing Benson and Bird kept getting him the ball is priceless.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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  19. #69
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    All in favour of fwpacerfan changing his avatar say "I"..........

  20. #70
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    What in the world is that picture, fw?
    [edit=72=1096315040][/edit]
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  21. #71
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    I think it's Kerry's twin sister...
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    Formerly a naturallystoned, badinfluence...

  22. #72

    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    I like it!

  23. #73
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    AYE!!!!!

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  24. #74

    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    This is the year for Bender. With the help of the Pacers training staff, he added to his core weight, which will help his center of gravity. Last year, when healthy and the primary post weapon, Bender took it down low almost every possession against the small forward guarding him. He often drew double teams, as a result. If you don't think he was dangerous last year in the post, watch some game tape. First time he got the ball, he scored in the post. Second and subsequent times, he was double teamed. You combine him in the post with someone like SJax as the cutter or shooter, that is a DANGEROUS combo as backups. Also, at this weight, Bender can now play PF or C for us. assuming the addition of core weight helps him stay injury free, Bender = championship for us this year.

    You heard it here first

  25. #75
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    Default Re: If this is true - look out NBA!!!!

    I saw some postives signs from Bender last year....

    He looked more confident when he got his chances... and usually made an impact on the game right away.

    He did learn to handle the double teams better....at least in the post.... usually being able to dribble out of them while finding the correct man according to defensive rotations.

    He certainly isn't perfect....most of his turnovers were when driving the lane and getting stripped.... It'll happen....he was also successful at getting into the lane...and either finishing....getting fouled or drawing and kicking for the open perimeter shot... His passing got better last year I thought...

    If he gets a chance to play through some of his mistakes... I think it would help him learn the parameters of his game better and boost his confidence.... Anyone would play scared knowing they'd get yanked at the slightest error.

    His D got much better IMO... he was better at being able to keep his man in front of him....he does go for pump fakes but usually is able to recover with his length and atheltic ability... Plus he'll learn to control that with more PT...so I don't consider that a big deal.

    I would like to see him improve his court awareness(which is getting better), knowledge of game situations,, passing and rebouding. All come with playing time...which has been limited or inconsistant at best because of injury or the depth of talent in front of him at his positions.

    The haters accentuate and exaggerate some of his weaknesses in order to validate there dislike of his game.... thats fine.... he's had a handful of years in the league already.... its been frustrating for all of us.

    Superstar?...who knows.... but can be a huge impact player if given Al Harrington type minutes.
    [edit=150=1096408861][/edit]

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