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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

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  • #16
    Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

    When Danny first came into the league, he played with a lot of passion and there was so much positive energy surrounding him. He also played defense.

    Ever since he's gotten paid, he's turned into your average despondent, I got my money NBA player. He'll play defense in the last five minutes of the game, but other than that he slacks off on what constitutes 50% of the game in basketball. He doesn't even pass quite as well as he used to, he's basically devolved into the worst kind of "asset," that of a volume shooter. That may work with fans in some cities, but Indiana basketball fans are smarter than that and expect more from Danny.

    Either light a fire under his *** or trade him this offseason. His value as of now is inflated and could get us something good in return. Just don't make the same mistake you made with JO and trade him three years too late.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

      Originally posted by PacerDude View Post
      I don't need comments from him to make me want to slap him.

      Watching him play defense - no ........... on defense (because he certainly doesn't play it) is enough.

      That said - he's a 6 year player, one of the highest paid (if not the ...) and all that crapola. HE should be taking that role. And it should be done by his play on the court. Which would require him to give an effort on defense. Which brings me back to Square One.
      Just who exactly on this team is playing defense?

      And Danny is talking about himself in that quote. Taking it any other way is foolish.

      Right now our problems don't have to do with any player. It has to do with youth and schemes. Youth leads to inconsistency which is exactly where Danny is right about the older guys needing to get this team back on track. He was clearly trying to do so last night. And the youth has led to very little offensive sets being executed. It's not just Collison either. Last night I remember we went to Hibbert right away and he was supposed to feed the ball to someone cutting, but the guy never came through. Ultimately it led to a bad shot. And our defense's problem is too much help. They all do it, Danny included. Singling out Danny's bad defense is a joke. He's doing what the defense is designed to do.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

        Originally posted by idioteque View Post
        When Danny first came into the league, he played with a lot of passion and there was so much positive energy surrounding him. He also played defense.

        Ever since he's gotten paid, he's turned into your average despondent, I got my money NBA player. He'll play defense in the last five minutes of the game, but other than that he slacks off on what constitutes 50% of the game in basketball. He doesn't even pass quite as well as he used to, he's basically devolved into the worst kind of "asset," that of a volume shooter. That may work with fans in some cities, but Indiana basketball fans are smarter than that and expect more from Danny.

        Either light a fire under his *** or trade him this offseason. His value as of now is inflated and could get us something good in return. Just don't make the same mistake you made with JO and trade him three years too late.
        This is a bunch of bull. To say Danny doesn't play with passion is untrue. Why do you think he goes off on guys when they miss a spot. Because he wants to win. He plays defense the way our team is designed to play it. It is a flawed system.

        I'm glad Vogel is taking some responsibility. But he really needs to change this defense. We help way too much and every team in the league knows this. Until it changes we will see a lot of the same.

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        • #19
          Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

          Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
          This is a bunch of bull. To say Danny doesn't play with passion is untrue. Why do you think he goes off on guys when they miss a spot. Because he wants to win. He plays defense the way our team is designed to play it. It is a flawed system.

          I'm glad Vogel is taking some responsibility. But he really needs to change this defense. We help way too much and every team in the league knows this. Until it changes we will see a lot of the same.
          The defense is designed to loaf?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

            Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
            This is a bunch of bull. To say Danny doesn't play with passion is untrue. Why do you think he goes off on guys when they miss a spot. Because he wants to win. He plays defense the way our team is designed to play it. It is a flawed system.

            I'm glad Vogel is taking some responsibility. But he really needs to change this defense. We help way too much and every team in the league knows this. Until it changes we will see a lot of the same.
            Right, that explains how he morphs from defense only moderately better than Troy's to DPOY-level defense the last five minutes of close games. There were years under Jim where Danny played pretty good individual defense, it is nothing on the system.

            Look, I want Granger to succeed here, but if his defense isn't demonstrably better by the All-Star break next year, forget it. If you want to take a calculated risk and get more value for him this offseason, trade him now. But for the love of God don't want years and years and let this fester like we did with JO.

            The other alternative is to get a player just as good or better than Danny to pair with him and see what happens. Easier said than done.
            Last edited by idioteque; 03-06-2011, 06:02 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

              Originally posted by grace View Post
              There are five other guys on the team older than Danny (although TJ is only 27 days older). However, since Danny is the team captain I would hope he's doing everything he can to get the players back on track. If not he certainly shouldn't be the captain and probably shouldn't be on the team.
              I wish he'd put more effort into his defense.
              Danger Zone

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
                This is a bunch of bull. To say Danny doesn't play with passion is untrue. Why do you think he goes off on guys when they miss a spot. Because he wants to win. He plays defense the way our team is designed to play it. It is a flawed system.

                I'm glad Vogel is taking some responsibility. But he really needs to change this defense. We help way too much and every team in the league knows this. Until it changes we will see a lot of the same.
                I felt he was going off on people to cover up his own short comings and mistakes he made. I've seen him yell at people when it sure seems he's the one who effed up, especially half-assing through a screen.
                Danger Zone

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                • #23
                  Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                  I don't really see the problem with the comment. That is where veteran leadership should come into play, and I assume he's including himself in that group along with probably Foster, Dunleavy, Posey, and Ford.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                    I was asked by Mike Wells to tell you all that Granger was referring to himself along with the other veteran players.

                    Can't say I'm surprised, but it's nice to avoid any possible misunderstanding. Thanks, Mike.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                      Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
                      The defense is designed to loaf?
                      Yes. Look at it. The whole team focuses on making sure players don't get into the lane leaving players open for jump shots.

                      It often goes like this. Player X tries getting into the lane or passes into the post, more often than not we collapse around him, pass outside to open man who either takes a shot or makes a pass to another open player.

                      We don't just help with one player, we help with multiple guys. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if its just one guy helping, but its not. You will see Danny and McRoberts slide over to help Hibbert, or a post player and a wing slide over to help Collison when a guy drives. This also is killing our rebounding now because our guys are out of position to box their man out. Our defensive system is a joke right now and doesn't emphasize one on one defense.

                      Every team we play seems to have great ball movement. Utah had 24 assists and shot 44%. Phoenix had 29 assists and shot 44%, Dallas had 26 assists and shot 52%, OKC had 26 assists and shot 48%, Houston had 23 and shot 45%.

                      The best defensive game we have played under Vogel is the game against Portland. They only had 17 assists. They also shot 36%. Why? Because of less open shots.

                      If the system would emphasize more one on one defense, holding players more accountable for individual match ups, less switches, way less help, especially only sending one player to help our defense would be much better. Rush, Danny and George can play great individual defense. Collison not so much, but we have to be smarter when we are helping him. Its exactly why Grant Hill went off on us. Not because of Danny's lack of defense, but because our system calls for him to help way too much. It's not like the only opposing player going off on us is matched up against Danny. Its guys at multiple positions each game. They are getting open shots because of our defense.

                      Now I'm not saying Danny is playing great defense, because he's not. He does need to put more effort into it. BUT that is a secondary problem. At the end of games the whole team typically plays better individual defense. Collison often becomes a much better lock down guy toward the end of the game. It comes out of no where. Why? Because at the end of games our defense asks more from the individual than from the team.

                      The defense was broken before Vogel took over and will take longer to fix than the offense. In November when we were playing great defense,there was more emphasis on one on one defense and holding each individual accountable. As the season went on we got away from this. To fix this we need practice time and we just don't have it right now. Its going to take a training camp to change this most likely.
                      Last edited by ilive4sports; 03-06-2011, 06:29 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                        - i appreciate mike wells, but i do find that comment a head scratcher. danny should be taking every bit of the blame and criticism, its not about "older guys" he is the older guy now.

                        - danny granger has been under the fire since last year. not since o'b took off

                        - danny's comment is as idiotic as the comments he was making this summer with team usa
                        "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                          I'm almost certain that he's including himself in that comment. If not, that would be distrubing.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                            Wells said that Danny is including himself as one of the "older guys"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                              Originally posted by Kaufman View Post
                              - i appreciate mike wells, but i do find that comment a head scratcher. danny should be taking every bit of the blame and criticism, its not about "older guys" he is the older guy now.
                              I don't understand how it could be a head scratcher. He just clarified that when Danny said what is quoted on page one, he was including himself in that statement, as opposed to pointing a finger at others (Jeff, Posey, TJ).

                              - danny's comment is as idiotic as the comments he was making this summer with team usa
                              What comments? The one about someplace stinking? How on Earth could this be as bad as that?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Did this comment by Danny make anyone else want to slap him upside the head?

                                what i'm saying is that he should not be trying to spread it around amongst other guys, among himself. posey just joined. tj ford and foster are benchwarmer and end of bencher. danny isn't one of the older guys, he IS the older guy.

                                to some degree, i don't think there is much danny can do to get me back at this point though, so in fairness to him, i am probably being overcritical.
                                "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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