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Thread: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

  1. #51

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    I still have a problem with a pg Price shooting 12 times in the last 21 minutes , while having only 1 assist and 4 turnovers. I know he hit 6 of 12 shots but this season he was hitting 36% from the field going in.

    He has now got regular run 17+ minutes a game over the last 20 games. Counting today he is shooting 35.4% from 2 point range , 28.3% from 3's, has a total of 37 assist in 343 minutes and 26 turnovers a 1.9 to 1.3 a/to ratio.

    I hope to see Lance get some real minutes , AJ when on can hit his shots ( thats been seldom over the 20 games) but is too shot happy for my liking as a back up pg.
    And if you had been watching the games instead of looking at statistics you would know that he had been significantly out playing Collison for a while.

    His turnovers were too high today. And he was a bit out of control on his drives. That said, he took over the fourth quarter, on both sides of the floor.

    Assists aren't the be all end all of a point guard, and they don't represent how well a guy is running the team. (Turnovers though..) That thought process is so silly. And I know it's been the mantra of the NBA because of Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Lebron James, but playing a two man game is not the only way to run an offense.

    I'm a Price fan, but this idea in general just annoys me. If the team is getting good shots, the PG is doing his job well. AJ doesn't get stat for when he passes the ball to Danny, barks at Danny to pass to Foster, Points at Josh to cut and then Foster passes it to Josh for a dunk. He doesn't get a little number in his stat box, but he sure as heck set up that play, and was the reason it happened. That's called being a good floor general, and it's just as effective as playing a two man game, AJ just doesn't get a stat for it.

    BTW, this is why fans of Price tend to be fans of Josh, and vice versa. Both players do a lot of things that they don't get credit for unless you actually watch the game and take notice of it.

    That said, AJ didn't run the offense that well today, he was too busy scoring. But he usually does, regardless of whether he gets a crap ton of assists or not.
    Last edited by Sookie; 02-27-2011 at 04:37 PM.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    PS - Price reminds me Travis Best

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I listened to the game and Slick was really aggitated about not being able to stop the Suns P&R. His comment was it isn't working today and hasn't worked all season, so you have to make some changes. I can still hear Slick saying after the Suns got the ball "here it comes again!"

    I'm very upset with Granger's lack of playing "D". I don't want to hear about his being able to play "D" again. He just flat out doesn't. That and the fact Granger isn't a go to guy when you need clutch play is getting very irritating. Batman he isn't, and the Pacers need a Batman. I'm beginning to wonder if he can fill the roll of Robin at times.

    Speaking of Robin, alias Rush, he's like a scared puppy not knowing what to do when he gets the ball. There is a reason there has been an attempt to trade him the last 2 trade deadlines. What you see is all he's ever going to be, period. I said from the day Bird drafted George that he was drafted as Rush's replacement. Rush isn't part of the future core of this team, and the handwriting is on the wall, if Rush will just take the time to read it, that Rush won't be playing in Pacers uni next season.
    I agree with you in the Danny part but I disagree with you about Rush, Rush was probably our best player today, he blocked shots, scored when he had to score and got some huge rebounds.

  6. #54

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    PS - Price reminds me Travis Best
    which can be very good, and VERY bad.

  7. #55
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    price hit some shots, but honestly, i do not like the way he plays the pg position at all. pgs should not be looking to score first, pass second. that sort of play can be fine for a game or two, but over the long haul it is not conducive to winning basketball.
    DC has a better assist/minute ratio, but he suffers from the same thing. None of our PG's including TJ are that type of PG. Yes, it is not winning basketball and until that's fixed I doubt this group of players can contend...even once they enter their primes. The bottom line is, we need a different PG. Not the biggest issue on the team, but it's still one that will have to be dealt with eventually.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    I watch the games I checked to stats to back up my argument AJ has on whole been very ineffective. He is a shoot 1st pg and with Tyler and George on the court with him he should look to them before hoisting his low % 3's. He hit them tonight by and large over the last 20 games -28%, points out that thats not what you want him doing.

    AJ's defense is far superior to Darren , I'll give you that. But I want my back up pg looking to set others up , before looking for his own shot.

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  11. #57
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    DC has a better assist/minute ratio, but he suffers from the same thing. None of our PG's including TJ are that type of PG. Yes, it is not winning basketball and until that's fixed I doubt this group of players can contend...even once they enter their primes. The bottom line is, we need a different PG. Not the biggest issue on the team, but it's still one that will have to be dealt with eventually.
    I agree, looking at our PG play makes me wish I was some sort of physicist so I could go back in time and steal 19 year old Andre Miller and put him on this team.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I agree with you in the Danny part but I disagree with you about Rush, Rush was probably our best player today, he blocked shots, scored when he had to score and got some huge rebounds.
    I thought he played some good ball, but Rush is playing Shooting Guard, and needs to be able to score and create. Honestly, I'm pretty sure there was a 10 minute stretch there where I didn't even realize he was playing.

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  14. #59
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    AJ is a better defender than Collison, and he sees the floor much better. Only problem is that he doesn't have very much quickness, he takes tough shots, and his jumper has been struggling (Outside of this game) due to his injury, and I think he has too much trust in DJ and Danny.

    If Collison would quit being scared and just play than he would be better. Lately they have been about equal.

  15. #60

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    they just replayed hill's 3 at the end and i have no idea WTF granger was doing or thinking on that defensive possession. my god that was ugly.

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  17. #61

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    AJ is a better defender than Collison, and he sees the floor much better. Only problem is that he doesn't have very much quickness, he takes tough shots, and his jumper has been struggling (Outside of this game) due to his injury, and I think he has too much trust in DJ and Danny.

    If Collison would quit being scared and just play than he would be better. Lately they have been about equal.
    I actually think he has too much trust in Foster to score.

    There's no reason to be nervous about either one of them. They are second year players doing a pretty good job of learning how to play the toughest position on the floor. Expecting them to play like vets is silly.

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  19. #62
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    That too. Reason probably being that Foster makes very good cuts which makes it easy for Price to pass to him, but the problem is that Foster can't convert once he gets the ball.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    AJ's defense is far superior to Darren
    This is a huge deal. AJ is an under-rated defender IMO. Defense at the point is CRUCIAL to the entire defensive scheme.

    BTW, I'm not going to say I don't think Darren will ever be a good defender, but the deck is stacked against him. He's a small PG who not only can be pushed around, but more important...the bigger PG's can easily see over him to execute the offense.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    they just replayed hill's 3 at the end and i have no idea WTF granger was doing or thinking on that defensive possession. my god that was ugly.
    I used to have Danny as my avatar, but no more. Dude is NOT interested in defense. I swear he just thinks he can let guys score and he'll just turn around and light them up. A tad bit of arrogance. JMHO...

  22. #65

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I agree with you in the Danny part but I disagree with you about Rush, Rush was probably our best player today, he blocked shots, scored when he had to score and got some huge rebounds.
    So true. But the rub on Rush is that the next game he'll be invisible.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Maybe if Lance can run the offense, like TPTB think he can, Price can play with him as a 2 on offense but a 1 on D. I like somethings Price can do, but he has a little Travis Best top of the key ball pounding in him.

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  26. #67

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I used to have Danny as my avatar, but no more. Dude is NOT interested in defense. I swear he just thinks he can let guys score and he'll just turn around and light them up. A tad bit of arrogance. JMHO...
    Somethings wrong when a 38 year old Grant Hill drops nearly 3x his average on your 'best' player...

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  28. #68
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    I think the size or lack of in both Collison and Price is the reason we will see Stephenson get an opportunity to prove he can play pg for a few minutes a game. To not allow stronger pg's Billups, Stuckey, ect. to just go down low and post.

    I think Bird also invisioned Mayo playing some back up pg here for the same reason at 6'4 210 , Mayo has the size to defend more physical points and is a decent enough ball handler to play limited pg minutes.

  29. #69

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    How did the Suns get 107 FG-A while the Pacers got 87? TO's is a problem w/ this team.

    On another note, Hibbert's point production for minutes played is terrible. Someone feed him some potatoes.

  30. #70

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    That too. Reason probably being that Foster makes very good cuts which makes it easy for Price to pass to him, but the problem is that Foster can't convert once he gets the ball.
    Yup, AJ's got another problem with Dahntay and Hans..who are both playing him silly on the PnP.

    Hans leaves the PnP early, leaving AJ double teamed, typically with one option to pass it to. Hans..for an open jumper. It's Price's fault for rewarding Hans with it. When Tyler did it with DC, DC called him back and made him run the PnR again.

    Except this game and last game that was defended well..and Dahntay has figured out the proper angle, so that AJ has another person to pass it too. But once the ball goes to Dahntay..it's not coming back.

    I wish PG would move a bit, to make himself an option.

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  32. #71
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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kellogg View Post
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    Somethings wrong when a 38 year old Grant Hill drops nearly 3x his average on your 'best' player...
    PD needs to fix the thank you button. You might have gotten 10 out of me. BTW, that was old man Hill's season high. That tells me that Danny is not getting it done on defense.

    BTW, I don't give a rat's what Danny scored. It's IRRELEVANT!

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  34. #72

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    This is a huge deal. AJ is an under-rated defender IMO. Defense at the point is CRUCIAL to the entire defensive scheme.

    BTW, I'm not going to say I don't think Darren will ever be a good defender, but the deck is stacked against him. He's a small PG who not only can be pushed around, but more important...the bigger PG's can easily see over him to execute the offense.
    DC did a good job on Stuckey though. He has a harder time with guys that can run right past him.

    I think it's a lateral quickness thing, not a being tiny thing.

    As I said, Price's defense on Nash today was remarkable, if you consider how bad Nash destroyed him just last season. If AJ can improve as much as he has, DC can improve too.

  35. #73

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    Just got back from the game it was fun to watch well except the end of course.

    I also think this team needs a clue as to what they are doing 5 shot clock violations is 5 too many.

    They also need to learn how to defend the pick and roll. When Grant Hill at his advanced age can score 34 points and be the highest scorer between the two teams that's a problem in itself.

  36. #74

    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    What really bothered me when Darren was in was his lack of court vision. It was especially noticeable today next to Nash's incredible court vision. Of course I don't expect Darren to have the same amount of court vision as him, but still a little bit would help. He misses Roy so many times in the post at the beginning of possessions when he has position in the post. We had no good fast break buckets with him in because he couldn't find anybody. It really frustrated me. A.J. definitely has better court vision then him....he might be weaker in some other areas such as shooting, quickness but his court vision is definitely better.

    A.J. really played a great game. His defense on Nash was amazing. Him stopping Nash was the key to getting back in the game. And you can't forget about those shots he hit either. Now that he's gotten to play some with the same players, he's gotten better at reading what will work.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Suns postgame thread

    our PnR defense is terrible we didnt deserve to be in that game.

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