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Thread: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

  1. #1
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    First Lance, then Mayo. Just wondering if anyone else felt that we're going down that dark path of talent at all cost again.

    Look, I understand that we need to take chances in order to get talented players. It's just that not all risks are equal. We've taken chances on guys like Paul George (raw, weak conference), Hibbert (slow, unathletic), Hans (no upside). If they have not amounted to anything, we'd just move on with little downside. Taking talented but troubled players though, has blown up in our faces several times in the past.

    I can buy all the reasons for drafting Lance. Young guy, low pick, even hired a private investigator to check out his background. Despite all that, he already has one incident (But hey the case was dropped, no harm no foul right?). To his credit though, Lance seems to fit in with our locker room culture, and it may be that being surrounded by positive role models would help him mature.

    One guy like that is ok I think, but now we want to add another! Mayo is talented, and we're getting him at a cheap price, but is it too fast too soon? Mayo's "rap sheet" - marijuana possession, suspended for taking DHEA (a steroid masker, though Mayo claims innocence), fighting with a teammate - not too terrible perhaps, but not something we want to add to the mix either.

    It's also rumored that we tried to get Zach Randolph added to the deal to fill our PF void. Obviously this is just a rumor but it may mean that the Pacers are not as opposed to a ZBo homecoming as many of us have assumed. He may in fact be one of our free agent targets next year, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

    To summarize, I'm just pointing out that Pacers have been burned badly in the past by collecting "bad apple" players, but it seems like we're ready to try this strategy again. Thoughts?

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    Member yoadknux's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Dude you're not inviting them to marry your daughter, you just need them to play well, and it's not like Mayo killed the president, nuked europe, and made billion of dollars by selling rifles to terrorists. He's not the perfect player on and off the court but that was still a huge (missed) opportunity for us to improve. If we could get him before the draft i'd do it for sure

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    Over the pond ballism's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    I think it's more of a value move. Buy low, sell high next year. Mayo has talent, and he's a very willing defender despite the lack of size for a 2. His price will not be lower than what we offered. Worst case scenario - you ship him out for a better price.

    Best case scenario - he works out as our 2. Personally, I don't mind a few headcases, as long as they work hard and play defense. And don't ask for time offs to write songs. Maybe that's just me. I even forgave Artest, untill his trade demands.
    I think between Danny and Tyler, they are strong and steady personalities who would balance out a couple of problem guys. Worth to try, if it's a huge talent upgrade.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Lance was a second rounder. Very low risk.

    People are complaining on other threads that Larry can't close because he insists on winning a deal. Looks possible that he was working New Orleans for a good player or two back for Rush and that was what blew the deal. Good!

    So, he wasn't willing to take too big a risk for Mayo either, so, no, he's not letting talent totally enchant him.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    So, he wasn't willing to take too big a risk for Mayo either, so, no, he's not letting talent totally enchant him.
    Fair point.

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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    I think you can get by with having 1-2 knuckleheads on your roster, if their talent is worth keeping them on board. It's when you have more knuckleheads than regular players, that you run into problems.

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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    as opposed to the Murphy/Dun , Saranus, Deiner, Solo, etc signings
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  12. #8
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Are we "falling in love with talent" again?
    Ya, it's usually the young kids that come out with this stuff.
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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    This is why I'm glad the trade didn't go through. I'm not a McBob fanboy or anything. I just feel that until this team has achieved a certain level of success and have rebuilt our fanbase, we can't be gambling on guys with checkered pasts.

    I know people are sick of the milk-drinker philosophy, and I can understand that. But as someone who lived through not only the brawl but a Purdue program being obliterated by chasing high-risk/high-reward players (**** you Luthor Clay), I'm still a little gun-shy.
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    High-risk players will always make me uneasy post-Brawl, but it's going to have to happen eventually (unless we're crazy lucky). The trick is, I think, to not let that guy be your best player. I have no worries about Paul George or Roy Hibbert being a headcase, and odds are one of those two will be our top dog for years to come (probably George). Mayo would have been a nice piece, but he wouldn't have been 'the man' here, either, which makes the risk a little more tolerable.

    There's the PR side of it, but let's face it, Indiana has proven it doesn't matter who it is, the star player or the 15th man, anything, ANYTHING negative in the press about them causes the same knee-jerk responses by the ignorant.

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    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Bottom line is whether you have choir boys or convicts the casual fans are not showing up unless you are winning consistently and it takes talent to win in the NBA.

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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Yes we are falling in love with some of our mediocre players and don't want to let them go.

  20. #13
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Are you serious? That literally makes ZERO (0) sense because we just tried to trade Josh and Rush for OJ Mayo

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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes we are falling in love with some of our mediocre players and don't want to let them go.
    Not trying to be a smart@$$, but if you can, throw out a little evidence why you believe this?
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Are you serious? That literally makes ZERO (0) sense because we just tried to trade Josh and Rush for OJ Mayo
    I'm talking about us in PD.

  24. #16
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Oh. My fault.

    In that case, I somewhat agree. No way we're going to win a title with Josh or Rush getting the minutes they currently are and our young guys have a lot of improving to do.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 02-25-2011 at 11:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    I don't think you need to take a risk in order to have a good team. I really don't. A good majority of teams don't have problems. And in fact, the best teams don't have problems.

    If you want to win, you can't have locker room idiots.

    Now, I think taking a risk on Lance was fine. We got him mid-second round. We hired a PI. If it blows up in our face, so be it. The stupid bit was giving him a guaranteed contract. But even then, it's not a lot of money.

    This trade...we're lucky it didn't go through. We almost gave up one good locker room guy whose young with talent at a position we need, for a poor locker room guy, who..is talented..but overrated..at a position we have a ton of players at. Will we need to upgrade the PF spot in order to get where we want to be. Yea, I think so. But we don't need any other young guy taking up Paul George's minutes.

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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    I'm not sure if we are "falling in love with talent" but Bird's willingness to trade for Mayo despite his "baggage" makes me think we could actually make a run at Z Randolph in the offseason. Before I didn't think he was an option, but with this trade and the Lance pick I'm not so sure now.
    Last edited by DieHard; 02-25-2011 at 04:15 PM.

  29. #19

    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    You always want talent if you can get it. Though I'm of the opinion (minority?) that Mayo does not have the huge amounts of talents that people think he has.

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    Member presto123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Some of you just want a trade for the sake of making a trade. Mayo is not going to be a name player in this league.

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  32. #21
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Fair point.


    Hold the phone! Did you really just accept someone's counter point and agree, even possibly changing you mind?!!!!!

    That's not allowed on the internet! Kudos to you sir for being a rational human being.
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    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Some of you just want a trade for the sake of making a trade. Mayo is not going to be a name player in this league.
    Please tell me how you view this as a factual statement

    Are you able to adequately predict the future?

    Not trying to be rude but no one really knows
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  34. #23

    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    name me an nba player who has never been late for a shootaround, had a beef with a teammate, or smoked marijuana. i guarantee you 95% of the league has done at least one of those things. i guess i just forgot how great of a teammate jordan supposedly was...

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Please tell me how you view this as a factual statement

    Are you able to adequately predict the future?

    Not trying to be rude but no one really knows

    Obviously true that no one can say for sure. Therefore no one should be dismissed that says Josh WILL be a star. I happen to think neither is nor will be a star. However historically players that become stars do not get worse each season from their rookie year.
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    Default Re: Are we "falling in love with talent" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    name me an nba player who has never been late for a shootaround, had a beef with a teammate, or smoked marijuana. i guarantee you 95% of the league has done at least one of those things. i guess i just forgot how great of a teammate jordan supposedly was...
    But it is more than that. The guy has proven to have an anger problem. You and I can have a beef, but it doesn't mean I'm going to get so ticked I want to punch you. We've seen this movie before and a reason some PDers are concerned with someone like Lance. We shouldn't have to hold our breath hoping something doesn't happen.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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