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Thread: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFife View Post
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    So Larry still loves (especially) our core and also thinks Mayo would have "perfect" for us....

    Emotions aside, I'm confused about this. I'd like to invite analytical comments (with a little detail, please) on comparing the following two (future) starting lineups. Which do you favor and why?

    Memphis
    PG M Conley
    SG X Henry
    SF R Gay
    PF Z Randolph
    C M Gasol
    6th OJ Mayo

    Indiana
    PG D Collison
    SG P George
    SF D Granger
    PF (D West)
    C R Hibbert
    6th OJ Mayo
    I'd say center and small forward are a push, a slight advantage to us at point guard, a moderate advantage to Memphis at power forward and shooting guard is too early to tell, although it looks like it could be a huge advantage for us in due time, not just because of the hype around George but because Henry looks horrible.

    Overall, it's hard to say. I'd probably go with us because (a) I can't stop being a homer and (b) I'm skeptical that Henry ever amounts to anything.

  2. #52
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    OK, I realize yesterday was an extremely hectic day for Mike wells, but I think this is important to know.

    There is a huge contradiction in this part of Wells article.
    The deal fell apart because the NBA did not receive the call until 3:01 p.m., a minute past the league's mandatory deadline.

    Time passed as the teams attempted to finalize all of the components of the trade. The Hornets then decided not to take part.
    so what was it, did the deal fall apart because the call was late or did the deal fall apart because the Hornets decided not to take part - but then why was Bird calling the league if the deal fell apart???.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-25-2011 at 09:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Also, does the NBA really just have a single phone line on the trade deadline day for trades? Does anyone else think that seems ridiculous?
    Yeah there is no way they have a single phone line. There must be a way to document when the call comes in. When did Bird or whoever actually make the call into the league. There are phone records that can document this
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-25-2011 at 09:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, I realize yesterday was an extremely hectic day for Mike wells, but I think this is important to know.

    There is a huge contradiction in this part of Wells article.


    so what was it, did the deal fall apart because the call was late or did the deal fall apart because the Hornets decided not to take party. it cannot be both, it must be one or the other
    The latter seems far more believable to me. I can't believe the league would be so petty as to let a deal go undone due to it being one minute late, especially since they've (purportedly) given deadline extensions in the past.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Expirings were crucial in getting cap space for last years free agency class. With Melo being traded, no big market teams need the cap space. They need talent shored up for when the new CBA is in effect.

    This means we not only had expirings in the wrong year for a trade, but now we will have cap space in the worst free agency period since the free agency hit the market.

    If teams are grandfathered into a new deal, then we are getting 60 cents on the dollar in our cap space.
    Last edited by Major Cold; 02-25-2011 at 09:56 AM.

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  8. #56
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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sullinger View Post
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    The latter seems far more believable to me. I can't believe the league would be so petty as to let a deal go undone due to it being one minute late, especially since they've (purportedly) given deadline extensions in the past.
    But the pacers were calling the league for reason to get the trade approved. So the Hornets had to be in at that point. or maybe the reason the call was late is because the Hornets backed out at the last minute, but then why was Bird calling? Unless he was calling to get the league to report a trade that didn't include the hornets.

    None of it makes much sense to me.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    I find it hard to believe that Memphis would turn down...

    Ronnie Brewer
    2 1st round picks
    1 2nd round pick

    but agree to...

    Josh McRoberts
    1 1st round pick

    Very hard to believe, and if it's actually true then Heisley is more of a moron than has been estimated before.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,1581666.story

    It has already been posted, but you can read the details here.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Expirings were crucial in getting cap space for last years draft class. With Melo being traded, no big market teams need the cap space. They need talent shored up for when the new CBA is in effect.

    This means we not only had expirings in the wrong year for a trade, but now we will have cap space in the worst free agency period since the free agency hit the market.

    If teams are grandfathered into a new deal, then we are getting 60 cents on the dollar in our cap space.
    You have hit the nail on the head as to why expiring contracts didn't have nearly as much value as they normally do. bad year for the pacers to have all the expirings.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    I find it hard to believe that Memphis would turn down...

    Ronnie Brewer
    2 1st round picks
    1 2nd round pick

    but agree to...

    Josh McRoberts
    1 1st round pick

    Very hard to believe, and if it's actually true then Heisley is more of a moron than has been estimated before.
    The Grizzlies want to win this season. They win a lot more this season adding Josh McRoberts than they do adding Ronnie Brewer.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The Grizzlies want to win this season. They win a lot more this season adding Josh McRoberts than they do adding Ronnie Brewer.
    And that makes sense with teams like the Nuggets, Blazers, Jazz all much worse than they were at the start of the season the Grizzlies think they can make some noise in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    If we actually got screwed because the call was one minute late...

    **** this league.
    How is that the league's fault? They have known about this deadline the entire year. It isn't like the league surprised them at 2:30 yesterday and switched up when the deadline was.

    February 24, 2011 3:00 PM EST. That's the deadline. Plain and simple.

    If you wanted this trade to go through, don't be mad at the NBA. Be mad at the ineptitude of the front offices involved.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Kravitz View Post
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    "This season has been a mess: He was late for a game-day shootaround and was pulled from the starting lineup. He got in a fight on a plane with a teammate. And he was suspended 10 games for taking a banned substance, DHEA, which he said he ingested from an over-the-counter energy drink he got at a gas station."
    I had had enough of this kind of behavior with the tins-jack-seane era. I do not want any more of these sketchy charachters on my Pacers team any more. Yeah, Mayos a good talent, but I agree with JMV from yesterday, he is a "me" player. I am once again proud of the blue collar type team we have. I think it represents our city the way it should.

    I am so glad this trade didnt happen. Im not the biggest McBob fan, but he brings alot of energy and he fits a role. I dont understand why Mayo would have been an offensive boon at this point, because we have scored 100 points or more in every game since Frank took over. Id rather have Danny, Paul and even Dahntay shooting than OJ. Its the defensive end of the court that needs to get better and Josh fits that need more than OJ. Mayo would have gotten in the way of Paul George's progress anyway. We are gonna be fine.

    One more thing. With all the Stern haters on here claiming he sabatouged this, I wonder if Bird had this planned out to sabatage anyway at 3:01, because Chicago was trying hard for Mayo too. Bird has been in the league long enough to know a deadline is a deadline. Just sayin...

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You have hit the nail on the head as to why expiring contracts didn't have nearly as much value as they normally do. bad year for the pacers to have all the expirings.
    But it was for the free agency class.

    I think a lot of this was out of the hands of Bird to control, but it does not absolve him entirely.

    The lack of value on our cap space will result from stock piling bad contracts to strive to win while the window was open.

    The JO trade got us Hibbert, but it also extended half of his salary an extra year in For.

    The Dunleavy/Murphy trade was horrible no matter how you slice it. Not only did we get one player who handcuffed our flexibility, but it was two players over the MLE .

    The good news is after the dust settles, Posey's contract maybe equal or worth more than Murphy's contract last year. Any team needing space to get Chris Paul and company would covet a contract like his.

  18. #64

    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    I'm glad we didn't get Mayo. Bringing him in would violate my "One knucklehead per team" rule. If you don't think he and Lance would be hanging out together making the front page and ruining team chemistry, you've got a very short-term memory.

    If we didn't have Lance, I wouldn't have minded bringing him in, but Lance makes other moves for immature players destined for failure.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    No question, Mayo has some baggage. He was suspended in high school for an altercation with an official. He was charged with marijuana possession in high school. He got USC put on NCAA probation for accepting freebies.

    Bob, you left out he punched a team mate at USC and actually broke the guys jaw. It was reported as an accident, thrown elbow, however others who were on the court said it was a punch and a coverup.

    What this actually shows is Larry does love talent over citizenship. I'm sure he's still a big fan of Ron Artest and would have him back on the team except the fans might riot.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    IMHO I am glad that this trade didn't go through. I don't think a guy with Mayo's character issues would have done anything for the positive chemistry that we have now. He is a selfish player who puts himself ahead of the team. With all of the expiring contracts we have and next year being a not so spectacular list of FA out there maybe it would be wise to keep the cap space and go for some of the bigger fish in 2012. That is unless we can pull a trade with some over the cap team to get a guy like West.

  21. #67

    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    As someone who often is critical of Kravitz, I will say that was one of his better columns.

    I will dispute the claim he makes here though.

    From several to a dozen NBA insiders across the spectrum, they have all said that right now teams aren't looking for cap space, they aren't necessarily looking to get players on the last year of their deal. In previous years our expirings would have had more trade value

    I think this trade was a no-brainer for the Pacers and I would like to know exactly where the mistake was made if there was one
    I'd dispute that claim is a different way. We did turn one expiring contract (Murphy) into a starting point guard (Collison). The idea that we were going to have that kind of success more than once is wildly optimistic. And does Bird not get credit for that trade because it wasn't at the deadline?

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,1581666.story

    It has already been posted, but you can read the details here.
    Though one league insider familiar with the talks said, “It looked like (Michael) Heisley didn’t want to deal with the Bulls.” Heisley lives in the Chicago area and long has had an ambivalent relationship with the Bulls. NBA.com
    Petty, but makes sense why they rejected the Bulls offer. Unless they thought that highly of McBob
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Petty, but makes sense why they rejected the Bulls offer. Unless they thought that highly of McBob
    I bet most GMs are starting to realize that McBob is a pretty good young PF; a Josh Smith-lite.

    It's also been said that Chicago didn't include Charlotte's 1st, which means it would've been Miami's 1st and their own─currently 28th and 26th, respectively. They probably preferred our single mid-round 1st (currently 15th) to two picks in the mid-to-late 20s.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sullinger View Post
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    I'd assume he means as future trade bait.
    Yes, you are correct.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

  25. #71

    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    The thing that amazes me about all this is that the focus is all on the Pacers. How often do multi-team trades fall apart at the last moment when one team changes their mind?

    The answer is "We don't know". Why don't we know? Because usually team owners don't announce trades before they're official. What was Michael Heisley doing talking about the trade before it was official? Before the phone call was made?

    Often trades are leaked through agents and players. But through an owner? I can't think of that happening before.

    Why isn't anyone here crucifying Michael Heisley? Let me be the first. If he had kept his mouth shut then there would not even be an issue. We have no idea how often trades fall apart at the last moment. This could be business as usual in the NBA. I see no reason to criticize the Pacers at this point. (and no, I don't accept the "late phone call" scenario. that doesn't jive with NO backing out)

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    It was stated that the Griz have been high on McRoberts for a while. Couple that with teams making noise about going after Marc Gasol (RFA) this summer with a huge contract off that the Griz might not want to offer, McRoberts might give them someone to look at for the rest of the season as a potential resignee and consolation if Gasol's contract offer isn't matched.

    Also, it's stated that Mayo has worn out his welcome in Memphis.

    Seemed like a good match in terms of team needs/wants.

    As for the OJ overated comments, I've heard teams like NY Knicks, LA Lakers and Chicago would love to have him. So why can't we?

    JRose stated that he wouldn't be surprised if Mayo would have loved it in Indy and resigned/wanted to stay here because of Bird.

  28. #73

    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Chicago definitely muddled things up. They wanted more from the Bulls because they knew they were a legit championship contender. When the Bulls wouldn't budge they came to the Pacers at the last minute. A minute too late actually. If the Bulls weren't going after Mayo this could have gotten done earlier, and if the Hornets backed out there would be time to rectify that with a new team.

  29. #74

    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    I agree with jeffg-body. I can't believe that Kravitz composed the following list of Mayo problems and then blamed Bird for not pulling off this deal:

    "No question, Mayo has some baggage. He was suspended in high school for an altercation with an official. He was charged with marijuana possession in high school. He got USC put on NCAA probation for accepting freebies.

    After a remarkable rookie season in 2008-09 (18.5 points per game) and a solid second season (17.5 ppg), he has gone south in his third season, averaging 12.1 points in 28 minutes, primarily coming off the bench. This season has been a mess: He was late for a game-day shootaround and was pulled from the starting lineup. He got in a fight on a plane with a teammate. And he was suspended 10 games for taking a banned substance, DHEA, which he said he ingested from an over-the-counter energy drink he got at a gas station." http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...ws|text|Sports

    Kravitz should have been questioning why Bird was contemplating blowing up our team by adding exponentially to our Stephenson distraction potential challenge.

    Check the per/36 minute shooting percentages and scoring averages for 2010-11 of Mayo versus our top five wings. Is there one of our wings that you would not prefer offensively overall to Mayo? Only George's 3p% lags, and most of us anticipate that being fixed by next year. In most categories, our wings win hands down.

    It is not insignificant that Mayo's per 36 minutes numbers are dropping.

    Realistically, would Mayo add that much to our scoring? Sure, he might be able to create his own shot, but how often would he end up subtracting shots that other players make within the flow of the offense? And how often would his missed shots contribute to scores at the other end for the other team?

    I say that we should send thank you notes to the NBA office for stalling their answering of Larry's phone call.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    I find it pretty ridiculous that just a few years ago Kravitz was leading the force to "clean up" the Pacers. He was always getting the "casual fan" even more riled up about Jackson, Tinsley, etc. Now, we are winning and look to be on the right track and he is killing us for not trading for someone that he had to take 3 paragraphs to explain his "history." C'mon man.

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