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Thread: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

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    Default Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...ws|text|Sports

    Team blows opportunity to add draft-lottery talent at bargain price
    Feb 25, 2011


    I'm sorry, but somebody screwed up. Not sure if it was the Memphis Grizzlies. Not sure if it was the Indiana Pacers. Not sure if it was the New Orleans Hornets, who later got involved in the trade talks.

    But somebody somewhere messed up two huge deals Thursday -- the proposed O.J. Mayo-for-Josh McRoberts-and-a-first-round-pick deal and a trade that would have sent Brandon Rush to the Hornets for a first rounder and some other pieces -- and now, the Pacers are left with . . .

    Nothing.

    Who's to blame?

    Shortly after news of the aborted trades broke, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley seemed to throw the Pacers front office under the bus, telling TNT's David Aldridge, "Indiana was not able to get it all together." That can be interpreted one of two ways, either "Indiana couldn't get its (bleep) together," or "Indiana was waiting on New Orleans to make this three-team deal work, and it didn't come together in time."

    Whatever.

    Sources told The Star, though, that the Pacers called the league at 3 p.m. to notify them of the three-team deal, and were on hold, waiting to get into the league's queue, when the deadline passed at 3:01 p.m. While the Pacers were waiting, New Orleans apparently backed out of the deal -- which wouldn't have been consummated anyway, since the league insisted it was 3:01.

    He said, he said, he said.

    Bottom line?

    The Pacers got absolutely nothing done at this trade deadline, and they missed a fabulous opportunity to add a draft lottery-quality talent who is still young enough to get his head screwed on right.

    No question, Mayo has some baggage. He was suspended in high school for an altercation with an official. He was charged with marijuana possession in high school. He got USC put on NCAA probation for accepting freebies.

    After a remarkable rookie season in 2008-09 (18.5 points per game) and a solid second season (17.5 ppg), he has gone south in his third season, averaging 12.1 points in 28 minutes, primarily coming off the bench. This season has been a mess: He was late for a game-day shootaround and was pulled from the starting lineup. He got in a fight on a plane with a teammate. And he was suspended 10 games for taking a banned substance, DHEA, which he said he ingested from an over-the-counter energy drink he got at a gas station.

    He's also only 23.

    And he's got crazy talent.

    When his mind is right, the third pick in the 2008 draft is that good. And he would have been worth the minimal risk. The Pacers wouldn't have been forced to give up very much -- just McRoberts, Rush and a first-round draft choice.

    Mayo was making only $4.45 million this year and $5.6 million next year, with a team option the third year.

    Small risk, huge upside.

    These have been some very good weeks for the Pacers, who are playing well after the overdue firing of coach Jim O'Brien. But Thursday was a bad day, a frustrating, mystifying day.

    They didn't get Mayo. They didn't get anybody.

    Wasn't that all part of the grand plan, to use these expiring contracts at the trade deadline to make deals to acquire young talent?

    The Pacers stood there with roughly $30 million in expiring deals -- Mike Dunleavy ($10.5 million); T.J. Ford ($8.5 million); Jeff Foster ($6.6 million); Solomon Jones ($1.5 million) and McRoberts ($885,120) -- and got nothing done. In a league where expiring contracts are incredibly valuable assets, especially at a time when the salary cap is going to be slashed, the Pacers failed to move any of those assets.

    So the Pacers are now putting most of their eggs in the free-agent basket, and that's a chilling prospect.

    Two issues:

    First, this is not one of the better free-agent classes in recent history. I like Dallas' Tyson Chandler, the defensive-minded, shot-blocking power forward. I like David West of the New Orleans Hornets, a hard worker whose scoring average improved each of his first six years in the league. But it's not a long or terribly impressive list, and it's not like the Pacers are the only ones shopping.

    Second, this is Indianapolis. We love the place, but honestly, are free agents clamoring for the chance to party in Broad Ripple?

    Danny Granger was both honest and incredibly foolish with his comments the other day, telling Mike Wells of The Star, "I don't think (the talent migration to the big markets is) good for the league. It hurts a team like us tremendously if everybody can pick where they want to go. No chance for us at all."

    Now, you'd really like the face of your franchise to do a little bit better sales job, but he's not completely wrong.

    Cap flexibility is great, and the Pacers will have more than anybody this summer, but only if somebody is willing to take your cash.

    The deal for Mayo could have been a game-changer, especially in a league where the power pendulum has moved to the Eastern Conference.

    This is one that got away.
    Last edited by MyFavMartin; 02-25-2011 at 06:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    This is painful.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    This is painful.
    Doesn't seem like that once a trade is agreed on and you're on phone with the league that a team can back out... One would think that something on paper should be signed off on and once you've got that signature, there's no going back...

    But again, whatever.

    Seems like something we may revisit later.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    I'm still bewildered here, as haven't they given extensions past the deadline in the past for deals that were essentially done? (Wasn't Ronnie Brewer's trade to Memphis similar?)

    Something just doesn't seem right.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    I don't want to read about this anymore.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    I actually agree with Kravitz on this one. We had 30 million dollars in expiring contracts...a very valuable asset come trade time. I can understand wanting to hold on to a few to reduce your salary the coming year, however, we didn't do anything.

    The most frustrating part is not that we didn't get Mayo. The frustrating part is that building through trades and the draft are our primary vehicles for adding talent. Free Agency is not going to net us the talent we are looking for (at least IMO). I think once a guy is here and realizes Indy is a great city, he is more likely to stay. However, getting them to sign here initially is the problem.

    Point being......we have waited a long time to have the assets to add valuable pieces to this team. That time has now passed up by. We take the risk of not luring and FAs in the summer. We have also lost our most valuable trading assets.

    I just don't quite understand how this deadline could pass and nothing could get done.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    Here you go Rex (if you've not seen this either):

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...xt%7CFRONTPAGE

    Time runs out on Pacers' deal for Grizzlies' Mayo
    Feb 25, 2011
    Mike Wells

    What was supposed to be a three-team deal orchestrated by Indiana Pacers officials Thursday afternoon fell apart when the NBA trade deadline expired.

    The Pacers were set to send forward Josh McRoberts and a first-round draft pick to Memphis for guard O.J. Mayo. The Pacers were also going to send guard Brandon Rush and forward Solomon Jones to New Orleans for a draft pick and two unnamed players.

    The deal fell apart because the NBA did not receive the call until 3:01 p.m., a minute past the league's mandatory deadline.

    Time passed as the teams attempted to finalize all of the components of the trade. The Hornets then decided not to take part.

    Pacers president Larry Bird was frustrated after team officials had spent the day talking to five teams, trying unsuccessfully to get a third team involved in the deal only to come away with nothing.

    The Pacers also talked to the Charlotte Bobcats about forward Gerald Wallace.

    "I don't like it," Bird said. "Sometimes it's difficult because people wait until the last minute because they're waiting on other deals. It's just unfortunate that it didn't get done. A deal is never done until you sign the papers."


    Memphis owner Michael Heisley told nba.com the Pacers were "not able to get it all together. I think from our point of view, we were interested in the trade going forward. It was a very, very difficult conversation for us."

    Mayo was to have been the key component for the Pacers, even though he has had several off-court incidents. Mayo was suspended for 10 games last month after violating the league's substance abuse program. He also got into a fight with teammate Tony Allen over a card game on the team plane.

    The Pacers were still willing to take a chance on him. Mayo is a gifted offensive player who also would have provided toughness.

    "I'm trying to be as aggressive as I can, but I can't make a mistake," Bird said. "(Mayo) is not a mistake. I thought he would have been perfect for us."

    The inability to pull off the trade means the Pacers will finish the season with their current roster, with the likely exception of point guard T.J. Ford. The Pacers plan to start negotiating a buyout with Ford to give him a chance to sign with a playoff-contending team before Tuesday's deadline.

    "I think I'm going to get an opportunity very soon," Ford said. "I knew coming into the season my time here was going to be short, and I felt this move was most likely to happen."

    Portland, Miami and New York are expected to have interest in Ford. He said he will agree to a buyout only if he knows a team will sign him and he will be able to make up the money he would lose in a buyout.

    "If not, I'll be a Pacer the rest of the season," Ford said.

    The Pacers have taken advantage of the soft portion of their schedule to go 9-3 under interim coach Frank Vogel.

    "I like our guys, especially our core group," Bird said. "Some of the older guys are playing well, and they're rolling pretty well now."
    Last edited by MyFavMartin; 02-25-2011 at 06:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    Wasn't that all part of the grand plan, to use these expiring contracts at the trade deadline to make deals to acquire young talent?

    Here is what I've been saying all along, in the end of the "three years plan" Larry was supossed to have a clear picture of what he wanted to do, he was supossed to know who he wanted to go after with all that cap space and assets, WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FREAKING DAY FOR THREE YEAR AND NOTHING HAPPENED.

    If Larry can't get a simple deal done before the trade deadline for about three years, how are we going to trust this guy with 30+ mil in cap space? could this be another Detroit Pistons free agent signing all over again?

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    If I'm Mr Simon, I'm questioning LB's contract situation and his capabilities. Yeah, perhaps NO backed out screwing everything up, but why did it come domn to the last minute.


    And I don't buy the "on hold" bit............total BS.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If Larry can't get a simple deal done before the trade deadline for about three years, how are we going to trust this guy with 30+ mil in cap space? could this be another Detroit Pistons free agent signing all over again?
    See, I don't agree with the bolded part. I think our FO has a problem closing deals, and that may stem from Larry's insistence that we win deals, not just that we make deals. That's why the Pacers so often end up inactive in the trade market.

    On the other hand, this kind of thinking also means we're unlikely to overpay in the free agent market. If we miss out on the guys we want, I'd think Larry will be willing to sit on our cap space waiting for a deal to materialize. And then fans will complain that Larry can't sign anyone. But I doubt very much we'll overpay for role players, which was Detroit's mistake.

    I think we need a closer for trades, just as we do for games. But I'm not worried that we'll overpay the way Detroit did.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    I think people are incredibly overating OJ Mayo right now.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer View Post
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    If I'm Mr Simon, I'm questioning LB's contract situation and his capabilities. Yeah, perhaps NO backed out screwing everything up, but why did it come domn to the last minute.


    And I don't buy the "on hold" bit............total BS.
    Sounded like to me that Memphis took their time deciding on the first part of the trade:

    “People are going to say I have reservations (about the proposed trade). I think from our point of view, we were interested in the trade going forward. It was a very, very difficult conversation for us. It took us a long time to decide. We were getting a lot of players at the two and three position and we were getting a little skinny at the four. We had three candidates we were looking at and when we decided on one, O.J. had to be part of that trade. It wasn’t that we were anxious to get rid of him.”
    As for Bird and NO, I'm sure he had an earlier trade agreed on, called them back and then they got cold feet at the last second. It's too bad because I think NO could really use a good young defensive-oriented SG (BRush) alongside CP3 and that rookie contract has to appeal to a small market team.
    Last edited by MyFavMartin; 02-25-2011 at 07:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    See, I don't agree with the bolded part. I think our FO has a problem closing deals, and that may stem from Larry's insistence that we win deals, not just that we make deals. That's why the Pacers so often end up inactive in the trade market.

    On the other hand, this kind of thinking also means we're unlikely to overpay in the free agent market. If we miss out on the guys we want, I'd think Larry will be willing to sit on our cap space waiting for a deal to materialize. And then fans will complain that Larry can't sign anyone. But I doubt very much we'll overpay for role players, which was Detroit's mistake.

    I think we need a closer for trades, just as we do for games. But I'm not worried that we'll overpay the way Detroit did.
    I'm not sure it's Bird's fault that NO backed out at the last second.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    The more Kravitz described Mayo's background, the less interested I became.

    I'd be upset if it was Monta Ellis or Igoudala. Not this guy.

    Josh McRoberts is no slouch either. Let's keep him and ask Paul George to step up large to the plate. And he plays great defense.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    Quote Originally Posted by MyFavMartin View Post
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    I'm not sure it's Bird's fault that NO backed out at the last second.
    3 years in a row? Sometimes you have to wonder if it's always the other guy's fault.

    Why exactly did N.O. back out? I guess we won't know the exact details, but we can make educated guesses. Maybe N.O., realizing they have leverage, decided to hold out for additional sweeteners. Unfair? Maybe, but we had to deal with it. Or as McKeyFan suggested in the other thread, maybe it was us asking for more from N.O. Either way, N.O. wasn't satisfied, else they wouldn't have pulled out. You don't discuss a deal nearly to the finish line and just change your mind for no reason.

    Would giving up a little extra to N.O. help get the deal done? Ditto for the TJ Ford to Charlotte deal, and the Tinsley to Orlando deal. We probably won't ever know, but it's a noteworthy trend if you think making trades is an integral part of team building.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    OJ Mayo has a longer rap sheet than I realized. Would he have been a great physical talent to add to our team? Yeah, probably. But is he a behavior problem? It sure looks that way from what you read. Why else would everyone be talking about how he is a young player whose issues can still be "fixed" by Bird and the Pacers? I don't want someone that we have to "fix." I want someone that will work hard, and stay out of trouble.

    Is that too much to ask?

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    If we actually got screwed because the call was one minute late...

    **** this league.

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    Thumbs down Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Kravitz would have been just as happy if the trade went through and he caused a major incident. He would have said that Bird should have known this was going to happen all along and that it was always obvious to him that this was a huge mistake. This article would have been followed up by thousands of dullards stating "Kravitz is right!" It's always the same.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    I think people are incredibly overating OJ Mayo right now.
    I'm not a huge Mayo fan, but he would have been better than whatever pick we would have given them.

    Josh is an UFA anyway, so we could have brought him back after the season.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I'm not a huge Mayo fan, but he would have been better than whatever pick we would have given them.

    Josh is an UFA anyway, so we could have brought him back after the season.
    This, we were sending a late 1st round pick for Mayo, either way to me the whole issue is not that they didn't get Mayo but that they didn't get anybody, the master plan didn't work.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This, we were sending a late 1st round pick for Mayo, either way to me the whole issue is not that they didn't get Mayo but that they didn't get anybody, the master plan didn't work.
    They didn't trade for anybody, but that doesn't mean they won't be able to use the cap space. If I'm not mistaken, having the cap space still makes for a positive trade position, because you can use that to take on more salary than you send out. It's not just about free agency. The new CBA muddies the water a bit, but I hardly think the sky is falling because OJ Mayo is still in Memphis. Disappointed a bit? Maybe. Disgusted a bit? Perhaps. Despairing? Nope.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    The real question is: why couldn't they get an extension!?!?!

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    3 years in a row? Sometimes you have to wonder if it's always the other guy's fault.

    Why exactly did N.O. back out? I guess we won't know the exact details, but we can make educated guesses. Maybe N.O., realizing they have leverage, decided to hold out for additional sweeteners. Unfair? Maybe, but we had to deal with it. Or as McKeyFan suggested in the other thread, maybe it was us asking for more from N.O. Either way, N.O. wasn't satisfied, else they wouldn't have pulled out. You don't discuss a deal nearly to the finish line and just change your mind for no reason.

    Would giving up a little extra to N.O. help get the deal done? Ditto for the TJ Ford to Charlotte deal, and the Tinsley to Orlando deal. We probably won't ever know, but it's a noteworthy trend if you think making trades is an integral part of team building.
    Now that I've thought about it, trading McBob would have created a shortage of PFs on the team and I'm fairly certain that the Rush/Solo trade to NO would have addressed it.... It's interesting to consider what salaries that NO has that would fit the trade possibilities (possibly consider our trade exception too). Again, it sounded like to me that NO backed out while we were on hold with the league. I'm not sure TPTB would lie to save face with the fans as anything that comes out proving they lied down the road would really erode confidence in TPTB and what they say.

    As for history, Charlotte has screwed up a lot of trades with MJ getting cold feet half way through deals.... I'm not sure I recall what we had with Minny and what Kahn had a beef with...

    The Collison/Murphy trade shows that Bird can make good trades... It sounds like what happened was beyond his control - NO got cold feet at the last second and there wasn't much time to get another third team involved (ie prefer not to send Rush to Chicago) or to renegotiate with NO (sweetening the deal).

    Again, all this is spilled milk and we can all speculate on the details we don't know about or are uncertain about...

    I won't be surprised if we revisit this trade in the off-season with Memphis and a potential S&T of McBob.
    Last edited by MyFavMartin; 02-25-2011 at 08:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    2 unnamed from the Hornets would have been a combo of a few choices. David Andersen, Jason Smith, DJ Mbenga, Aaron Gray and Quincy Poindexter.

    2 of those and a pick

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    Default Re: Kravitz Take on Mayo Trade Collapse: NO backs out when we're on hold with the league /// Wells Article with Trade Details

    This is something that I don't understand. If O.J. Mayo is worth the risk, why weren't any other teams attempting to trade for him. The kid has been made available by Memphis since basically the beginning of the season. If he is truly worth the risk, you would think that a team like Chicago, who greatly needed a SG to put next to Rose, would've gone after Mayo.

    I'm perfectly fine with this trade not going through. We've got a game against the Jazz tonight. Moving on...
    Grown Man Ball

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    By indygeezer in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-17-2008, 08:13 PM

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